Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
bearishgurl
Participant[quote=zk]My point is that potential college students should be able to borrow enough to go to college, that they should be able to pay it off after college, and that they shouldn’t have to pay usurious rates. If you disagree with that, and I’m not sure whether you do, then why?
If they borrow more than they need, that’s their own fault. But if they can’t borrow as much as they need, then that’s not going to be good for the country.[/quote]
Define “need,” zk, as it applies to an unemployed or min-wage-earning student. Does “need” include an expensive apt in Santa Barbara (or even half or a third of one)? Monthly highlights and mani-pedi at a salon? Weekend “socializing $$?” Private dorm room? Maintenance on an expensive and/or gas-guzzling vehicle? A $3000+ new “wardrobe?” All new stuff for a dorm room? etc, etc.
I think not … but that is how a lot of college students live today.
Do you realize you can buy used college textbooks off Craigslist anywhere for 70-80% off “new” prices? Yeah, they may be “last years or the year-before’s edition” but this shouldn’t be a problem. When the instructor says, “turn to page 115,” you just turn to page 121 (or however the book is laid out). You will know how it is laid out when you compare it to your classmate’s “new” edition on the first day of class. Then follow it accordingly throughout the semester or year. Buying grossly overpriced textbooks is the biggest joke in college these days.
Regarding exorbitant tuition/fee rates, I don’t see public colleges going down in price. However, I DO see private colleges coming down in price if student-loan qualifications go up and/or the gov’t backed student loan-limits are reduced. Many private colleges (such as “Univ of Phoenix”) are a colossal ripoff, IMO.
We are not currently living in an economy where it makes sense to overspend on education, since there is little chance of landing a well-paying job with benefits right out of college in most fields. It’s wiser for a lot of young people to instead try to obtain on-the-job training while working FT and obtaining benefits (or get low-cost ROP training in the “trades.”) Four years later, a lot of these young workers’ *newly degreed* compadres are going to be indebted to the hilt with no way to pay the debt back and still live. Hence, the “usurious” practices you’re referring to here when their loans are repeatedly consolidated and deferred, adding endless late fees and deferred interest on the back end.
Participant[quote=UCGal]I went to SDSU in the mid early/mid 80’s. It was SDSU even back then. And had been for a while.
At the time I started registration and fees for in-state students was approx. $350/semester. Books were another $100. By the time I left it had gone up to $550/semester, and books had doubled.
It’s up to $3289 for registration and fees for in-state students, per semester. And the sdsu.edu website claims it’s about $800/semester for books. That seems pretty steep to me.[/quote]
I understand that, UCGal. It IS pretty steep, considering that in the current CSU system, today’s undergrad is not guaranteed to be accepted into their major program of choice (due to impaction) and is not guaranteed to finish their +/- 128 semester credits (required for a Bachelor’s degree) in 4 years. Due to this problem, CC for two years is making more and more sense. At least a student will leave CC with an Associate Degree if they are turned down for their preferred major program at their preferred CSU campus(es). It’s okay to take a year or two off, work F/T and keep reapplying, rather than waste time and $$ majoring in something you’re really not that interested in. This is all the more reason to obtain a “marketable” Associate Degree at a CC, even if using it as a stepping stone to UC and CSU admission. Those skills will serve you well in ANY county you live in while pursuing study in your major without taking out student loans.
The above post was referring to the early-mid seventies era. CA colleges are only now surpassing other states in cost of tuition and fees.
In the Univ of Colo (Boulder, CO campus) School of Business, the in-state undergrad tuition and fees are now $13,788 yr (on par w/UC system). However, it is on a semester system while UC is on a quarter system.
see: http://www.colorado.edu/pba/budget/tuitionfees/tuitfee.HTML
However, “back in the day,” the CSU and UC systems in CA had the cheapest (resident) tuition/fees in the nation.
I DO believe this GREAT GIVEAWAY for residents really DID benefit CA’s human resources and encourage biz to relocate here over the last 50 or so years. However, this “party” has been over for at least 7 years now and CA univ tuition/fees are exploding thru the stratosphere.
ParticipantA few years ago, I used to watch “Design on a Dime.” (Not sure if it is still aired.)
The show was such a riot. I think the homeowner got $1,000 from the network to spruce up their property and the designer on the show suggested (and also made) the most idiotic things for the decor, such as a hanging lamp made of wire coat hangers, toilet paper rolls and tissue paper. The whole place usually ended up looking like a VERY low-budget college dorm room by the time the show was over. The only sensible thing they did was to make offers on and purchase second-hand furniture (from garage sales and ads) and then strip and refinish the item(s). That was the only good idea that came out of this show, IMO :=]
October 17, 2011 at 10:55 AM in reply to: OT- We are the Luckiest people in the U.S.A. (but you already knew that) #730822ParticipantLOL, if I’m not mistaken, isn’t the photo in the article of IB, land of “most polluted beach?”
[img_assist|nid=15457|title=Where was this photo taken?|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=61]
That bus looks familiar to me (as one on the “Southwest Line” route). Can any Piggs help here??
edit: just thinking it could also be Crown Point (is that a jetski)?
Participant[quote=CDMA ENG]Well… It seems to buy the following:
http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Default.aspx?PageID=feesched.html
Which is a tough pill to swallow…
CE[/quote]
Well, CE, not sure what you are implying here but FWIW, I was not a resident of CA at the time. I don’t know what UC tuition/fees were in that era but IIRC, SDSU (recently renamed from SD State College) was about $114-143 semester + fees (about $168 semester incl pkg). CA CC’s were “free.”
My 30 ACT score got me admitted to CU (Boulder, CO), which, IIRC, was about $850 – $900 tuition per semester + fees and books at the time. I had a FT job and lived over 40 miles from it and would have had to drive there in the snow on 2-lane roads. Even back then, living in Boulder was very expensive (and still is). There’s no way $4400 would have covered a year there (perhaps a $4400 loan + an annual “BEOG” grant of $2000 may have, if I qualified for it).
Yes, I could have worked and lived in Boulder but I doubt any job offered me would have been F/T or paid more than min wage. I made MUCH more $$ living in Denver.
When I later moved back to CA, I got a F/T job immediately and was no longer interested in attending college. In any case, I was ineligible for “resident-student tuition” for the first year.
Even as much as 15 years after HS graduation, I had MANY HS friends who I wrote and/or visited periodically who were not as well off as me or established in their own right (owned their own homes, etc) due to leaving the work world to attend college for several years. And many had student loans to pay off (although not as large as today’s loans). I wouldn’t have been able to swing buying my first property at such a young age if I had had student loans to pay off!
I concede that those days are long gone and that a college degree is now the new HS diploma (in employers’ eyes). It’s very sad that a college degree costs so much. I also think most employers are short-sighted in hiring a young, inexperienced college grad over an experienced HS grad or “Certificate” candidate. Most employers today automatically think the “college grad” candidate will be the better employee but nothing could be further from the truth. A candidate who will be “up and running” on the first day of work due to work experience and superior basic skills (which most college grads don’t have) is the better candidate.
I’m speaking of non-technical jobs here … in the business sector.
Participant[quote=zk][quote=bearishgurl][quote=zk]I’m not sure I get your point. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like you agree with “if you can’t afford to pay for college without a loan, you’re screwed.”
If you want this country to be even less competitive in the global economy than it already is, then that’s a good place to start.
btw, according to http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$4400 in 1975 dollars is $18,527 in 2011 dollars.[/quote]Well, it was earlier than that, but tell us, what will $18,527 yr buy today? Let’s start with CA, shall we?[/quote]
If it was earlier than that, then it would be more than $18,527 in 2011 dollars. And $18,527, according to the link provided by CDMA ENG, will pay for 2 semesters of tuition and fees at Berkeley (for an in-state student), leaving $4066 for books and other expenses.[/quote]
So, does $14,461 tuition/fee costs apply to the entire UC system (for 3 quarters)? Why does a UC undergrad student need a loan for more than say, $16K yr then (to include new and used books)? And why does a student who is lucky enough to get admitted to UC need to borrow living expenses? That seems to be what is getting them in trouble (typical student has loans totaling over $60K for a Bachelor’s degree). Why not work and/or attend a UC campus close to home?? Lots of (smart) students do this.
Many CA public university students seem to be borrowing more than they need for tuition/fees/books so the residual not used by the school will be returned to them (or their parents) and used for “living expenses.” We all know that a “social life” (depending on where the campus is located) has varying costs if the student goes out every weekend. While in school, these students aren’t even thinking about what this debt will do to their lifestyles after they graduate.
edit: zk, this country wasn’t competing in a “global economy” circa 1975. Jobs were plentiful for every American, even HS dropouts, but especially those who could read, write, type and spell English flawlessly. At that time, a young person could even quit if they didn’t like a job and have another one waiting in the wings without even a missed day of work 🙂
Participant[quote=zk]I’m not sure I get your point. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like you agree with “if you can’t afford to pay for college without a loan, you’re screwed.”
If you want this country to be even less competitive in the global economy than it already is, then that’s a good place to start.
btw, according to http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$4400 in 1975 dollars is $18,527 in 2011 dollars.[/quote]Well, it was earlier than that, but tell us, what will $18,527 yr buy today? Let’s start with CA, shall we?
October 16, 2011 at 6:23 PM in reply to: Any Recommendations on a Home Inspector for my Purchase #730797Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=bearishgurl]I second UR here as my clients and I have used Parra Bldg Consultants several times in the past (used to be father and son but not sure anymore). They are VERY thorough and prefer at least one of the buying parties accompany them (crawl in attic and crawlspace, etc).
see: http://piggington.com/mold_testing_company_recs
[/quote]I third UR’s recommendation. We’ve used them twice, once on a sale we backed out of, and again on our recent house. They were very thorough and professional. Yep, still a father-son-grandkids operation, which we liked, too. 🙂
BTW, UR/Dan, I told them we got their name from you.[/quote]
Lol, CAR . . . it’s been awhile for me! Thanks for the update and glad to know “Dad” is still on alive and kickin’!!
Participant[quote=zk][quote=AN]Mark Cuban have a good solution to the student loan and high cost of college education problem. He propose limiting student loan to $2k/year. The worse a student can do with this applied is $8k in debt for 4 year degree.[/quote]
[quote=Jacarandoso]How about letting students use debt to finish a semester, or maybe a year, but they have to pay it back before starting the next one?[/quote]
How are these good ideas? The whole purpose of student loans is to allow a person who can’t afford to pay cash for their education to get an education, and to then get a job that enables them to afford to pay for college. If you can only borrow 2k/year, you can’t get an education. If you have to pay back your loan each semester, you’re trying to pay back your student loan on a burger-flipping salary.
Sure, the system is screwed up right now. But just saying, “if you can’t pay cash for college, you’re screwed” is certainly not the fix. And both of the above ideas are basically saying that.[/quote]
Nationally, the maximum “Perkins Loan” in the 70’s was about $4400 yr and the maximum “BEOG Grant” was about $2000 yr. MANY HS GRADS did not attend college at that time because they could not afford it. In my case, my parents made $900 year too much for me to qualify for “aid.” (Believe it or not, I still have my [now brittle, lol] “FAFSA” where I was turned down for aid.) I ended up working FT after HS and paid my way thru three semesters of college and then quit (too hard, too many people majoring in what I wanted to major in and too few jobs avail in that field). (This was in CO where college [for residents] cost MUCH MORE than CA at the time.)
Those who could not afford to go college back then typically did not. Only about 17% of HS grads went on to college back then. The rest got married and began families right away and/or began working FT.
I don’t consider college a “right.” I consider it a “privilege.”
edit: btw, I scored a “30” on my ACT exam. 🙂
October 16, 2011 at 1:47 PM in reply to: Any Recommendations on a Home Inspector for my Purchase #730791ParticipantI second UR here as my clients and I have used Parra Bldg Consultants several times in the past (used to be father and son but not sure anymore). They are VERY thorough and prefer at least one of the buying parties accompany them (crawl in attic and crawlspace, etc).
Participant[quote=briansd1] . . . Interesting documentary on the credit card industry:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/…
[/quote]I DID listen to this (circa 2004) video, brian. It’s very interesting. However, on May 19, 2009, the Senate DID pass a “credit card reform bill” and gave issuers about nine months to comply with it. Not only did it require cc issuers to tell consumers on each statement how long it would take to pay their balances off if they made the minimum payment every month, it did away with “universal default” unless the borrower was behind on the “other account(s)” for >60 days.
I was aware of “universal default” after hearing friends talk about it when it apparently became a practice among issuers around 2003 or so. My own few cc’s are older than that so I don’t have any with the “universal default” provision and wouldn’t sign up for any that do.
Elizabeth Warren had some valid complaints back then as to the “business practices” of the cc issuers. I agree with the person in the video who stated that the issuers MUST use all that legalese to comply with the law in their “contracts” given to new consumers along with their new card. I don’t know if it can be explained any simpler but the requirement for the “min pymt” disclosure on the first page of the bill is a start.
Just like signing up for a “subprime,” I/O or exploding ARM mtg (or all 3 in one pkg, lol), it is the consumer’s responsibility to decide if they want to borrow money on the terms offered. By using a cc, one is either borrowing money or “floating” money (short term loan). In the end, the responsibility for wise cc usage lies entirely with the consumer. A “competent adult,” (no matter WHAT their income and obligations) shouldn’t sign up for one if they don’t fully understand the terms.
Participant[quote=jpinpb]Just a reminder that people are still living in their homes and not paying. Talked to my realtor friend living in his house in PB the other day. Officially 24 months of not paying a dime. Still no NOD or foreclosure. He’s had a little extra money every month for the past 2 years.[/quote]
Lol, jp … it seems your “realtor friend,” hasn’t been doing too well professionally lately. Or is this a “strategic default?” Hopefully, he’s saving something for a “rainy day” because I DO believe lenders are (or will be soon, if they haven’t begun already) lining up for the “CA non-judicial foreclosure train.” A very long one is ju-u-u-ust about to leave the station. Mostly with “Big Bank freight and baggage” cars on it.
I’m sure he’ll be able to “rent” (in SD [but NOT PB]) the near future with his “sterling credit” and won’t have to post a large deposit or last-months rent first, lol. Oh, well . . . not to worry. He can always move into his parent(s)’ spare back bedroom . . . that is, if they’re still around . . . :={
There’s no “free lunch” in this life . . . only delayed karma.
Participant[quote=walterwhite]I’m even more scaredycat about my kids taking on student loan debt than I was about mortgage debt.
This has been a reccuring Dinnertable topic and they are I think on board with the no/low debt plan, even the 13 year old.
I haven’t started working on the nine year old yet though.
The PSAT is this damned weekend.[/quote]
My kid just got done with the PSAT this week, scaredy . . . and then slept 13 hours :=} Keep working on your kids about the dangers of student loans. They’re ALL at a good age to learn how hard it will be and how long it will take to pay them back. Talk to them about getting jobs and possibly even attending CC for a couple of years.
Participant[quote=poorgradstudent]…As for older workers, I think it’s a combination of layoffs and feeling unhappy with their current jobs. My own mother never went to college and works retail; there was a time she considered getting her degree but decided the math didn’t just add up. For her it was a straight money decision, but there’s a lot of people where there’s a prestige and emotional component…[/quote]
poorgradstudent, what if the “unhappy older worker” is an educator and was told at the time by their employer that if they completed a particular graduate program that they could get more “prestige and pay” with an advanced degree. Then after several years going to school part-time (more expensive that way but they still had to work), they completed the degree and now attendance is down at the institution they are employed at so the job they were “promised” upon entering their graduate program (and taking out their student loans) is no longer available?
In today’s economic climate, there’s isn’t any “guarantee” that these advanced degrees pay off in the form of a higher salary … for ANYONE. And when a “boomer” doesn’t have time to recover from the (unnecessary and unwise) borrowing they just did, they screw themselves and everyone in their immediate family who depends upon all or part of their income.
“Prestige” or a “title” means nothing if you can’t even make enough net monthly salary over and above what you did w/o the “title” to make your student loan payments ($500 – $800 mo minimum?). Then whatever is left over will come out of your SS payments (if the OASDI program is still around at that time, lol). Upon default, an ex-student’s income tax refund is intercepted by the collector for the Federal “agency” (Sallie Mae) who made the loan. If this interception is from a JOINT RETURN . . . so be it. “Boomers” can’t usually GET educational grants or govm’t loans based upon “need” because they don’t qualify (they own too many assets [even if non-liquid and tied up with a spouse]) and there is no “parent co-signer.” They are indebted forever and unwittingly (or on purpose?) fvcked themselves up in retirement. Of course, any balance will show up as a creditor’s claim on their estate after they die.
I agree with your mom. As a HS grad or a person with limited college credits, at least she DID remember how to “do the math,” lol.
I don’t have to worry about my kid(s). They have not and will not take out ANY STUDENT LOANS . . . ever.
-
AuthorPosts
