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January 18, 2013 at 5:15 PM in reply to: Over 21% of homeowners in SD County have paid off houses #758001January 18, 2013 at 4:52 PM in reply to: Over 21% of homeowners in SD County have paid off houses #757996
bearishgurl
ParticipantDoes any Pigg know exactly when the “30-year mtg” became available?
I believe it was around 1952 (with the older, 20-year option still available).
Gotta do some research on the FHA.
IIRC, ARMs were not in widespread use until about 1981.
January 18, 2013 at 4:46 PM in reply to: Over 21% of homeowners in SD County have paid off houses #757994ParticipantI find it strange that the local media is just now deciding to discuss this issue. For the last 30 years, I have been well-aware of the magnitude of free-and-clear properties here in SD County. But I have always lived in areas which were filled with much more than 21% of these types of owners (read: OLDer areas).
I think the UT is trying to put two Gen Y’s heads together to scare up a story on how to increase SD County’s MLS inventory, lol.
It won’t work.
January 18, 2013 at 4:31 PM in reply to: Over 21% of homeowners in SD County have paid off houses #757990Participant[quote=flu]I don’t get the fascination in today’s environment with the desire to pay a primary home off early, especially for someone who is young that has still a lot of earning potential and can afford to take risks and still recover.
Economic situation changes, and so does one’s strategy. Maybe decades ago when mortgage rates were at the bendover 10+% rate, there was an incentive to pay off early…But look around. Mortgage rates are 2.5% for 15 years fixed, 3.375% for 30 years on a primary. Equity in primary home is pretty dead (at least until you move out or move up)…In this current environment, why do you want your money just to still there doing nothing?
Phillip Morris pays a 3.4% dividend, AN probably has a few recommendations on dividend stocks that do over 10%, and even the sucky Intel will be paying close to 5% dividend (though, it’s still a crappy company)…And these rates won’t ever change. Someone who is well qualified and who can take advantage of this. Hell, you probably can get more than 3% by buying and selling crap on craigslist.
Paying off early is sooooo old school. Hell, I was part of that old school of thinking. Not so much anymore.[/quote]
I agree. At today’s rates, there’s not much incentive to pay it off … even if/when you are able to.
The majority of SD’s current crop of senior-citizen homeowners paid their properties off in the seventies/eighties (20-30 yrs after SD’s postwar building boom).
Participant[quote=flu]Ummmm…
You do realize IRS already stated it is deductible…
And as such, CA follows IRS…http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Calif-drops-property-tax-deduction-campaign-3486711.php
https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/Real_Estate_Tax_Deduction/index.shtml
So CA wasted a bunch of money building systems before getting the requirements/information from the IRS…
Typical CA government wasting money…We talked about this already…
http://piggington.com/deductibility_of_melloroos_on_taxes%5B/quote%5D
In November of 2011, FTB kicked off the Real Estate Tax Deduction Educational Campaign to help educate taxpayers and tax preparers on how to calculate the allowable real estate property tax deduction as an itemized deduction. . .
Under current law, the deductibility of real property taxes is generally a matter of federal law to which California conforms. As such, the FTB will be waiting to review the revisions to the IRS forms and publications to provide comparable revisions to California tax form instructions. The FTB does not anticipate that these revisions will be made prior to the due date for 2011 tax returns (April 17, 2012). We have removed material from our website that limits the deductibility of real property taxes to taxes imposed on an ad valorem basis. Once the IRS forms and instructions are revised, we will provide revised California forms and instructions that are consistent with the revisions made by the IRS.
At this time, we do not plan to add additional reporting requirements related to the real estate tax deduction beginning with the 2012 tax return.
https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/Real_Estate_Tax_Deduction/index.shtml
flu, the “fat lady” hasn’t left the stage yet.
Time to ask your local tax preparer/accountant what THEY would be willing to put their name on and research CA legislation still in the pipeline.
There’s something missing here … :=0
January 18, 2013 at 4:16 PM in reply to: Over 21% of homeowners in SD County have paid off houses #757984Participant[quote=flyer]BG, I think you’re right that probably a fairly large percentage of the homes that are paid off are in “older” areas.
Of course, those who purchased homes here many years ago most likely have homes that are paid off, but, in general, it would still be possible, even for those who bought as recently as the late 80’s and 90’s, when property was much more “affordable.”
For example, you could purchase a SFH in CV for under $200K during in that time period. Homes that are now $1M++ in LJ, Sunset Cliffs and Point Loma, Del Mar, etc. were not much more.
Just using my family and friends as reference points–along with the great areas in east and south county–there still seems to be quite a lot of interest in “older” areas such as Del Mar, LJ, Point Loma, Sunset Cliffs, RSF, etc., by the current crop of buyers.
Many of the folks in those areas also own their homes free and clear, so it would seem the distribution is pretty much countywide.[/quote]
Yes, flyer, I used the term “2 mi from the beach” to denote that those properties situated within that parameter, regardless of age, are desirable to all age groups, and, regardless of initial cost, have more owner-residents “well-heeled enough” to pay all cash or retire their mortgages early. And I have posted before that I saw two listings (cosmetic fixers) situated on 1/2 AC+ lots located in your neck of the woods (Rancho Santa Fe) for $277K and $336K as late as 1994.
Bargains abounded in Coastal SD County RE (mostly cosmetic and heavy fixers) as late as 1997 in most desirable areas of SD County and as late as 2002 in a few areas. I observed a few heavy (structural) view-fixers get snapped up for cash in 92106 (Fleetridge, Roseville and LaPlaya) between 2001-2002.
I agree that it is entirely possible for a buyer from the early nineties to have retired their mortgage(s).
ParticipantI guess Cali finally got their debacle of a “computer system” fixed!
http://piggington.com/state_tax_deductibility_of_all_melloroos_charges_threatened_begi
Hooray for MR debtors!
January 18, 2013 at 3:38 PM in reply to: Over 21% of homeowners in SD County have paid off houses #757981ParticipantZillow, which typically analyzes negative home equity, switched gears this time to look at the share of homeowners with no mortgage. This is an important indicator because it points out a group of homeowners who may be more flexible than people with mortgages in putting their homes on the market, said Stan Humphries, chief economist at Zillow.
“By determining where these homeowners are located, we can also gain insight into potential inventory and demand in those areas,” Humphries said….
Several factors help explain an area’s mortgage-free rate. Obvious ones include the median age of homeowners: People 65 to 74 are the most likely to have no home-loan debt because they’ve had enough time to pay off their mortgages.
Even if every local agent/broker went door-to-door in their older “farm areas” to assess how many senior-citizens wanted to sell, I don’t see them getting very many listings, if any at all.
Most will never sell … they will simply leave the property to their estate, so their heir(s) can decide if they want to keep it “in the family” (individually or collectively) and thus inherit the old, low assessment.
As long as Props 58/193 remain “on the books” in CA, the bulk of these properties won’t change hands (out of the family).
I really don’t see a lot of current “demand” for these properties, anyway … at least not in the areas more than 2 mi from the beach.
The current “family-raising” set of buyers doesn’t want them. Largish lot aside, the floor plans of these seniors’ houses don’t necessarily “flow” and most have “dated” features.
The younger set would rather line up to bid on the over-taxed, over-indebted properties situated on miniscule lots.
I’m not trying to be facetious here. It’s the truth :=0
However, the Zillow analysis also showed that nearly 35 percent of homeowners nationwide in the 20-24 category had no mortgage. The share in San Diego County is 42 percent.
Housing analysts said parents with enough means are likely helping these young adults take advantage of relatively low housing prices. They may be giving money or extending private loans to their children.
Of course, the “20-24 year-old” set is too young to have graduated from college and become established in a career. Obviously, parents/grandparents are paying cash for homes and then deeding them to their children. Or giving them a long-owned home that used to be one of their rentals. Even if the parents are extending “private loans” to their children, their lawyers would advise them to file trust deeds on those loans. Since there were no TD’s recorded in the UT survey, then they were all-cash sales or intra-family transfers. And trust me when I say that parents who can afford to do this have lawyers chained to their ankles 🙂
The share of kids whose parents bought them a home in SD is higher because they are more unaffordable here than other parts of the nation. Local parents could have also deeded their kids a SFR or condo to live in while attending college so they would be less inclined to leave the area after graduation in search of work ;=]
In decades past and currently in the “flyover states,” it was/is not uncommon for 20-24 year-olds to purchase their first home (yes, even in SD). But the type of homes they purchase(d) on their own are NOT what the typical families headed by a Gen Y would want to live in today, NOR were/are they located in areas that this buyer-group would be even remotely interested in.
Sorry if I sound like a broken record. I don’t hate Gen Y. My kids are Gen Y :=D
January 18, 2013 at 2:14 PM in reply to: Over 21% of homeowners in SD County have paid off houses #757978ParticipantI forgot to add that 99% of the “paid-off” properties in CA lie in areas which are NOT FAVORED by or UNAFFORDABLE to the younger, family-raising set (read: OLDer areas).
The reason why you have been exposed to only the “over-indebted homeowner” crowd is likely because you have never lived in any micro-areas of CA where the overall indebtedness is low, ER ;=].
Nothing wrong with that, but just sayin’ …
January 18, 2013 at 1:48 PM in reply to: Over 21% of homeowners in SD County have paid off houses #757977Participant[quote=earlyretirement]Yeah Flu. I guess we’ve just heard so many years after the bubble burst about all the negative equity in San Diego County that you get stuck into thinking about that side of it.
My buddy that lives in Lemon Grove mentioned that many of the people there are older and have owned their houses forever and long since paid off. Same as in parts of Point Loma and other neighborhoods.
Property here in San Diego used to be affordable. I just figured that more people played the home equity ATM machine game.
No, I didn’t see a breakdown of SFH’s, condos, etc. I assume it’s countywide.[/quote]
ER, for the longtime-resident over-55 crowd in CA, it wasn’t worth it for a lot of them to keep moving up to a bigger house. They felt they would have been eventually taxed out of it. The reason there are so many paid-off homes is because the assessment on them is so low.
If a long-owned CA property is only assessed at $34K this year, next year it will be assessed at $34,680. $346.80 would represent the annual “ad valoream” portion of their tax (acc to Prop 13) plus fees for local services and voter approved bonds. Their TOTAL TAX BILL for the year is likely $385 to $420!
IOW, 2% from “almost nothing” = “almost nothing” 🙂
In addition, most of LG (your “buddy’s” town) has awesome long lots, many with 80+ yo trees!
If I had the good fortune of owning a CA property in a coastal county with these benefits attached to it, I would never give it up. Why would anyone? It doesn’t matter how much money you have. If you don’t want to live there year around anymore, buy a vacation home in another county/state! Or go live in your RV part of the year.
The “home equity ATM machine game” was played primarily by Gen X-ers and very late boomers (born ~1962 or after).
Boomers and generations prior to them don’t have the same values as X-ers and beyond, thus their daily needs and wants aren’t as great unless they are actually “wealthy.” IOW, the older generations are more used to and inclined to live within their means.
Participantscaredy, you might want to check but Cal State San Marcos may be impacted (as is SDSU). Since you didn’t make the early application deadline (11/30/12), it may be too late to apply.
I’ve also been told last week that the “Compact For Success” program between SUHSD and SDSU now has a long waiting list. This was a “guaranteed freshman admission” program for SUHSD grads who had a 3.0 GPA and satisfied successfully the the A – G admission requirements. It was supposed to be offered to grads thru the Class of 2014 but due to program cuts, SDSU did not live up to its promises 🙁
Participant[quote=squat300]Hmmm.
Need to ponder.
Parents matter.
I’m thinking cal poly Pomona if he gets in. Tuition plus rm and board comparable to uc riv tuition, and no commute. Also can visit on weekend.
Ok, done.
Wait. Unless they won’t take his 1.5 years of ap credit. Maybe just go get a bs at cal state San Marcos ASAP while living at home.[/quote]
scaredy, I like the CalPoly idea for him. At least living on campus the first year. He can always get a job after that and have roommates.
I think you’re on the right track here 🙂 CalPoly would challenge your son. They should accept his AP credits but will likely not use his “weighted” GPA for admission purposes.
Since he didn’t apply himself (to his abilities) too much during most of his “HS career,” I feel he may have been too bored. You don’t want him in danger of dropping out of college because of boredom. CalPoly is the way to go for him and is less expensive than UC.
Ok, done.
I know first-hand about kids about kids who score high on the SAT but didn’t apply themselves as well as they could have in HS because I have one.
Participant[quote=squat300]Would it pay to remortgage the house for fin aid purposes, invest the money? Would the difference between heloc interest and return be less than the inc. tuition?[/quote]
NO!
[quote=squat300]Nowadays it seems like some vets kids get a total free ride. That also seems to me to screw up the market price since they won’t care what tuition is as they’re not paying it[/quote]
scaredy the vet’s kids who get a “free ride” (fees only) are those whose parent has a 100% service-connected disability. In addition, they get ~$831 mo living expenses for 9 months per year. IIRC, the benefit only lasts for four years F/T consisting of 8 semesters (CSU/CC) or 12 quarters (UC). If these students screw up and/or take the wrong classes for their major or changes majors midstream, they are going to end up being out-of-pocket before their college “career” ends. The benefit is only available to legal issue and legal adoptees of the disabled vet and not to persons whose paternity was never determined, stepchildren or children given up for adoption by the disabled vet.
The CalVet program covers students whose parent has LESS than a 100% service-connected disability. For UC, it pays all fees same as above but no living expenses. For CSU/CC, it pays ~$1275 per semester in fees (partial fee-waiver). HOWEVER, there is a BIG CATCH to the CalVet assistance. The student is NOT ALLOWED to make over $11,702 year gross in any tax year they are accepting CalVet assistance for college. If they do, they will be dropped from the program as CalVet orders their recipients’ tax-return info from the FTB every year. This would preclude these students from from accepting slots at CA coastal campuses with a high cost of living unless they received other cash assistance from parents or other relatives, had other available aid, worked a lot “under the table” and/or took out a student loan.
You are correct that UC RIV, UC Merced and UC Santa Cruz are the only UC campus that currently accept solid “B” students. I was told the exact same thing last month by my kid’s counselor at school. The rest of the UC Campuses accept freshmen with avg GPA’s ranging from 3.73 to 4.22. However, incoming juniors (from CC) can often transfer in with a little less than that.
How far is the UC RIV campus from your home, scaredy? Can’t your kid just live at home and attend UC RIV? If it’s more than an hour’s drive one way, he can schedule all his classes on Tues/Thurs and just go twice a week. I think he would be a little “bored” at CC for two years, due to his extremely high SAT score and his “natural inquisitiveness” you often describe here 🙂
ParticipantHapps, I’ve had two 27″ ovens in a couple of houses and also the micro-oven combination in another house, both in the wall at eye level.
If you ever cook a turkey over 18 lbs, the 27″ ovens are not big enough. I seldom ever used both at once, except during holidays.
When we had to replace the micro-oven combination, we had to make a shelf space below (like flu did) and get a drawer made to match the rest of the cabinets. This was because the *new* micro-oven combo was about a foot shorter than the old one that died. Luckily, there are several good cabinetmakers in my area.
I currently have ONE 30″ wall oven (convection) installed under a gas cooktop with a 30″ microhood installed above. I like this setup MUCH better. The oven is large and requires extra installation space in back, because of its fan, however. Not all kitchens will accommodate a 30″ convection wall oven.
If any part of your microhood fails, it only costs about $200 to $500 to replace it and you will be getting a new range hood and lights to go with it.
I much prefer the built-ins to a drop-in or standalone range.
I would recommend closing your double-oven hole with cabinets/drawers and installing a 30″ wall oven under your cooktop (this cannot be done if you have a downdraft cooktop). I find this to be the most practical setup. And underneath a center island cooktop will better accommodate the convection fan than a wall cabinet but take measurements, just to be sure.
Rarely have I seen kitchens with two 30″ wall ovens but they do exist.
January 17, 2013 at 3:28 PM in reply to: Prop 30 money sold as funds for schools – watchdog reveals something else #757917Participant[quote=UCGal] . . . Start being grateful for that $100k or $200k, and accept that you are NOT middle or lower middle class.
Sure $100k doesn’t go as far in southern CA – but a lot of people survive on a lot less. In fact 50% of households survive on less than $63-64k.
Be thankful for what you have.[/quote]
Agree but would add that younger Gen X and Gen Y should ALSO be grateful that:
their parents had dental insurance available to them for their families and the vast majority of them who needed orthodontia got it … yes, even those on aid;
nearly all of them who wanted to go to college were able to, due to prolific aid and available student loan programs;
they were properly diagnosed with dyslexia, ADHD and other developmental delays as infants, toddlers and VERY young schoolchildren and were immediately placed into AVAILABLE appropriate programs at school to overcome their disabilities to successfully mainstream and graduate from HS (this is a BIGGIE);
their birth defects (even cosmetic ear pinning, cleft palate, etc) were fixed ASAP after birth, even if their parents couldn’t afford it;
as babies and toddlers, they sat in specially-made car seats inside vehicles and the driver and all passengers wore seat belts, which all vehicles were sold with;
physical and sexual abuse of children is now a crime;
Head Start and other pre-K programs were available and widely attended;
they didn’t get mumps, measles, chickenpox and rubella, due to being vaccinated as infants and booster shots as young children;
regardless of ability to pay, congenital orthopedic problems such as severely pronated feet/knock knees and scoliosis, etc, was repeatedly casted when their bones were soft (as infants) so they didn’t carry the problem (and ugly orthopedic shoes and braces) with them to school;
males didn’t have the draft to contend with;
low income health insurance (abt $37 mo per child) was/is avail for Gen Y thru college (known as “Healthy Families” in CA);
and, Gen Y was allowed to scan their lunch cards in the school cafeteria and receive a lunch without being embarrassed because they paid little or nothing for it (different-colored lunch tix and different lunch lines for free lunches caused teens from previous generations to throw together a lunch from home from scant groceries or avoid lunch altogether).
Each of these developments, by themselves, might not seem like such a big deal to a lot of Piggs. But all you have to do to have a full understanding of what I am talking about here is get 12 American 60-year-olds in a room (rich or poor … doesn’t matter), give each of them this list and ask each one point-blank how their lives would have been different if they had had access to ANY of these things.
Listen to their answers.
Then ask them again when they are 75 :=0
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