Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
bearishgurl
Participant[quote=CardiffBaseball] . . . BTW my wife went Stage 4 earlier this year with Mets to the spine. My company plan went to this excruciatingly high-deductible type plan where our max out is now 9000 on top of about 5k in premiums and of course you do get nickle-dimed on stuff. Seems like I always make just enough to avoid deducting medical expenses, but with all the gas and tolls to MD Anderson downtown, it takes a toll.
The thing is my youngest is 16 now entering his Jr. year and she’s going to fight as long as she can she wants to see him graduate, much like the post above. The worst thing is she’s continued to work but we are looking at how she can opt out of that. Certainly if another Bone Met comes along she’s got to file for disability and get out of there. (her working pays for the child’s HS however). . . [/quote]
Cardiff, my heart goes out to you and your family. My sister was able to work until the experimental stuff she tried as a last-ditch effort did her in (<3 mos before she passed). She had enough terminal leave to cover her premiums for the following two months and a week of hospice care. She only stayed (carrying her "fanny pack" of poison every day and then 2-3 days per week) because she was the COO of an entire division and felt indispensable but I think her employer would have understood if she had decided to go out on disability. I was with her when she decided to spend over an hour talking to her colleagues all over the country on speakerphone to say her final thank yous and good-byes just six days before she passed and I had to leave early on because I just couldn't handle listening to all these grown men and women lose it in between laughing and recounting memories with my sister.
Her employer arranged their own memorial service for her in which over 500 of her present and former colleagues, contractors and vendors came from all over the country to pay their last respects.
You were wise to put your spouse on your company plan even though she may have access to her own coverage. This will give her more flexibility in how to spend her precious time going forward.
Your son will be okay, even if he has to finish HS at a public school.
Hang in there, Cardiff. I'm thinking of you and your family and I'm sure many other Piggs are too 🙂
Participant[quote=no_such_reality] . . . Yes, there’s a big change coming. The insurance companies are reacting to making new plans targeted to an insurance pool that is much larger.
You choose poorly. You chose a cheap provider that has bailed on you. If you would have chosen Kaiser, or one of the others, you’d still have insurance . . .[/quote]
Actually, nsr, you probably haven’t been around long enough to know that Aetna was never a bit player in CA OR a “cheap provider.” Aetna’s PPOs in SD were managed by CCN for nearly 20 years, until CCN was bought out and Aetna formed what we now know as their “Advantage Plans” (PPO), which are both HDHP and comprehensive.
http://firsthealth.coventryhealthcare.com/about-first-health/
I had an Aetna HDHP through my govm’t employer for over 13 of those years with Champus Standard (now Tricare) picking up right behind them. With both, I could see the best providers from a big selection of local providers and pay only the first $150 of my medical expenses out of pocket every year (my Champus deductible). I didn’t care about the Aetna $500 deductible (this was “high” back then) OR their coinsurance requirements because Champus picked up the slack. The situation was the best of both worlds and many military dependents who worked for local govm’t did this. In addition, I had a comprehensive Aetna Advantage PPO at a law firm I worked at after taking deferred retirement. Many SD firms today still offer Aetna Advantage. I liked it so much that I formally applied for it after I left because I didn’t want to pay COBRA rates for it. Aetna is still here in CA but ONLY for its “enterprise” clients. They are only terminating the CA individual policyholders.
I wouldn’t have Kaiser if you gave it to me. I had two co-workers who were almost killed over there in Allied Gardens in that bldg Kaiser calls their “hospital.” In addition, they performed wrong operations (removed wrong organ) on two SD residents in the eighties and these cases were tied up in court for years. I could go on. They’re well known for being incompetent and their “system” has been well known for not being able to tell the right hand from the left hand. Coworkers who subscribed to Kaiser told me they rarely ever saw the same doctor twice and the doctor turnover was phenomenal. Their “urgent care clinic” wait was often several hours in a room full of sick people. Often times they were met by a PA or NP for an appt and never saw the doctor they made the appt to see, or any doctor, for that matter.
You do whatever you want and have a nice life, nsr. I’ll stick with a PPO with choice … as I always have and if I happen to draw an “HMO” in the “Covered CA lottery,” I will keep it for one year only, which is just enough time for me to make my exit from this great state of ours. I don’t care much now and at that point, I won’t care at all. There are several back bedrooms available to me here if I should find an intermittent compelling need to visit, both here and in NorCal. Those interstates out there run in both directions and I know how to find CA cuz I’ve had lots of practice. It’s all good 🙂
Thank you and good night.
ParticipantSK, your brother is very fortunate to have survived two? bouts of melanoma. This disease tends to spread like wildfire causing it to advance to an untreatable stage quickly. He must have been paying attention and sought treatment very early on.
Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=bearishgurl]SK, this isn’t the same brother that worked “outside” as a SD cop, is it?
[/quote]
No, it’s not. The (now former) cop is my younger brother. He’s a physical mess too, but all from work related injuries. I was referring to my twin brother. He’s had plenty of injuries too, but none life threatening.[/quote]
LOL. I’ve heard a lot of complaints on this forum over the years about how all these “spoiled” cops from CA law enforcement agencies take “lavish” early retirements to endlessly play golf, travel and hang out with their brethren. I posted here a couple of times that the disability rate of retired cops is REALLY HIGH and the death rate a few months/years after retirement is also very high.
I don’t think very many were listening because this issue still comes up at least 1-2 times per month.
Participant[quote=no_such_reality]You can still buy whatever policy you want through the private markets.
If you go through the health exchange, they’re standardized.
Will the insurance industry adapt? Sure, and yes, companies will choose not to offer plans that have just a handful of clients.[/quote]
nsr, I’ve already talked to a couple of brokers. The insurance companies have already “adapted.” Neither of them advocated signing up for ANY plan until after October 1 when Covered CA provisions will be more “fleshed out.” They can’t guarantee that ANY plan a CA resident signs up for today will even be in existence in 2014 or throughout 2014.
They will be able to advise on which plan within the exchange is the best plan for an individual or family to sign up for.
Obamacare is “here” and I have to take my statutory six-months notice of continuing coverage from my carrier and wait it out until the fourth quarter of 2013, when I will be able to apply on the exchange.
Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=bearishgurl]I lost an immediate family member from Stage 4 melanoma. It’s a swift and sure death. I myself have had a non-malignant skin cancer removed. This is another one of those diseases that is entirely preventable by taking personal responsibility for one’s skin in the sun and paying attention to changes in one’s skin.
[/quote]
Bullshit. It is neither a swift and sure death, nor is it entirely preventable.
My brother has had it twice. First time more than 10 years ago. Second time 18 months ago. He’s still alive, with no signs of it. Neither are all melanomas preventable.
You’re lucky you’re healthy. I’m sure you like to attribute it to your healthy lifestyle. It’s still just luck. My aforementioned brother is my twin. Thirty years ago he was a professional athlete and weighs less now than he did when he played. Never been a pound overweight. Has worked out at least 3 days a week since he was in his teens. Eats a healthy diet. Barely drinks and has never smoked (even weed). Never spent the 1,000s of hours in the sun that I did. He’s probably spent 75 days in the hospital over the last 15 years. He has now, or has had at least 4 different things that could have, or could still kill him with no notice. None of them are lifestyle related. Has a defibrillator permanently installed in his chest so he doesn’t spontaneously go into v-tach. (It’s gone off at least 3 times, maybe more, since he had it installed almost 10 years ago. He doesn’t even mention it anymore.)
So be happy and count your blessings. But don’t for a minute think that your good health is just because you took care of yourself. So do a lot of other people who aren’t near as lucky as you.[/quote]
SK, this isn’t the same brother that worked “outside” as a SD cop, is it?
Actually, SK, I do NOT take my health for granted. I have always been pretty athletic but have gotten more diligent about taking better care of my health in the last ~7 years (since three of my immediate family got sick and died at fairly young ages). My mom died 18 years ago at barely 60 yrs old from heart disease, after two balloon angioplasty procedures, one catheterization and one (failed) double-bypass surgery. On her death certificate, she was listed as one pound more than me and one inch taller. My very successful younger sister’s “luck” happened to run out in the prime of her life (age 46). She was diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer and died in less than 10 months, but only because she valiantly tried to save herself with assorted lethal “cocktails” and various “off-label” (traditionally used for other types of cancer) chemo. She was inoperable so was given only six months to live and wanted to see her kids graduate from HS so decided to grab at straws. Three out the four of her last months were nothing short of horrible for her (and the rest of us) until she gave up the drugs when she learned she was nearing death.
My dad DID have his advanced melanoma removed in surgery but it came back very fast and wiped him out. By the time its (advanced) metastasis was rediscovered (~one yr after surgery), it was too late. He had originally waited TOO LONG to get diagnosed after noticing changes in his skin and ended up having a very large tumor removed. After his melanoma surgery and recovery, he became tired and depressed over the untimely deaths of my siblings and didn’t get regular ct scans over the ensuing months. (He had already survived a different cancer ten years earlier after one l-o-o-o-ong year on chemo, while still working.) It was just all too much for him and I think he really didn’t want to know the status of his health anymore. He worked up until two weeks before his death and died at 73.
All of my relatives were well-insured and it didn’t matter.
I have one brother left who is five years younger than me. He wasn’t doing so well physically but “retired” a year ago and has been getting a lot of exercise and doing much better since then.
My family has a long history of three related cancers and complications from diabetes and heart disease so I DO consider myself lucky … so far. I have to continue to be diligent regarding my health or I will undoubtedly meet with the same fate. And I might, anyway, even if I begin running marathons tomorrow :=0
We can’t choose when to die or what will kill us but we can certainly do the things that are within our control to feel better and live as long as possible, given the genes with which we are dealt.
ParticipantYou bolster my argument, NSR, that something could have been done to eliminate “pre-existing conditions” from underwriting criteria and allow those people you’re discussing here to obtain a ~reasonable $600-$800 monthly premium through the state pool. The state could have put a program in place JUST FOR THEM to help with premiums to get their premiums down to a manageable level.
We didn’t have to dismantle the entire system and lose several major carriers as a byproduct. (I’m watching with bated breath as more carriers decide it makes “good business sense” for them to leave CA.) For example, CA has a VERY large, diverse population with hundreds of thousands of new immigrants who will be able to avail themselves of tax credits to use to pay their health premiums thru Covered CA.
I lost an immediate family member from Stage 4 melanoma. It’s a swift and sure death. I myself have had a non-malignant skin cancer removed. This is another one of those diseases that is entirely preventable by taking personal responsibility for one’s skin in the sun and paying attention to changes in one’s skin.
Individual policyholders SHOULD have the freedom of choosing between an HMO, PPO or a simple catastrophic plan. They’re paying the ENTIRE premium! It’s a free country, NSR. If some policyholders want the freedom to choose a provider in another state who belongs to their plan or join a clinical trial in another state or country and/or they are willing to pay the out-of-network difference, that’s their perogative.
At first blush, “Obamacare” appears to be (insidiously) eliminating these health insurance freedoms that Americans have long enjoyed.
ParticipantOff the top of my head, I was thinking about the several young people I know who received antibiotics (with at 3-4 refills) to treat acne. In some cases, if the antibiotic didn’t work, they got a prescription for another one and the old one (and all its refills) hasn’t expired. Several of these types of drugs are very similar to one another.
All I was trying to say was that a twentysomething can probably make it through their twenties without health insurance. Women can actually self-pay at a standalone birthing center and/or get temporary CMS if they’re pregnant. Lots of people do. If they get into a vehicle accident, hopefully one or both of the parties has adequate insurance to pay their medical bills.
Back in my day, and probably up until 1996 (when the welfare reform laws were enacted and CA’s “Healthy Families” came about), young people who were not minors and had jobs with no benefits didn’t typically have any health coverage. And most of us are still alive to talk about it.
I just think “Obamacare” coverage is overblown (too comprehensive) and too expensive for the masses. For example, most people will never use mental health coverage and a LOT of the people with HDHPs were happy with their coverage and PPO choices and could easily pay the deductibles and co-insurance if something major should happen to them. And segments of the population who can’t get pregnant (children, males and sterilized and older females) shouldn’t be charged in their premium to subsidize maternity benefits, IMO (since coverage in this area is now the law in CA).
“Obamacare” is having the effect of dismantling a “system” that, IMO, wasn’t really broken. It is only broken for the people who couldn’t get coverage. That segment could have been served with state risk pools already in place. A program with the risk pools could have been put in place which charges premiums based upon income (or a combination of assets and income). A lot of that segment is the self-employed, who I feel, could have paid a $600-$800 mo ~reasonable health premium (in light of their health condition) at the expense of vacations, consumer spending, newer cars, etc. A lot of these people HAVE the money every month for ~reasonable premiums but they want to spend it on something else instead. I don’t feel sorry for most of these folks because I’ve been a single mom the entire time I paid my own health premiums and know exactly what I had to do every month to keep them paid. We’ve all got the same problem.
The Medi-Cal/CMS segment was ALREADY GETTING healthcare services, mostly with the contracted providers for these state and county plans. Except for low hospital reimbursements, it wasn’t broken. No doctor who didn’t want to accept Medi-Cal patients has been forced to. I knew one person on CMS who had to wait 9-10 months for eye surgery but them’s the breaks when you’re “indigent.”
If a person is otherwise healthy now, i.e. achieved a remission from cancer, they shouldn’t be considered to have a “pre-existing” condition. For the most part, I agree that “pre-existing conditions” should not be considered in the underwriting process.
Sometimes, when an individual has a terminal illness or has (self-inflicted) cirrhosis, the result is death. Yeah, folks, that’s what happens. Whether that person is me, you or a longtime homeless person, the result is the same. I just feel, as a society, that we can’t (and shouldn’t) try to fix everyone’s medical problems on the backs of others who take personal responsibility for their health.
I’ve posted before here more than once that if I’m diagnosed with Stage 4 or “terminal” cancer, I’m going to accept it and enjoy whatever life I have remaining. It isn’t worth it to me to undergo treatment which might prolong life for two weeks or two months if the quality of that life will be very poor. At that point, I won’t even care if my taxpayer-supported health plan is willing to send me to clinical trials all over the place.
There comes a time when a terminal (or nearly terminal) patient has to realize they are just unlucky (have bad genes) or did it to themselves and gracefully accept their fate.
The next thing we’re going to hear is that “Obamacare” is going to pay $45K+ for gastric-bypass and lap-band surgery for *new* signups because this group refuses to try to lose weight on their own. Then we’ll have to hope they don’t have expensive post-surgical complications or won’t gain any of the weight back.
You may think the above paragraph sounds judgmental, but I know two people who have lost well over 100 lbs each ON THEIR OWN. And they both accept full responsibility for exactly how they gained it all. It can be done. Accepting full responsibility for one’s health is the key.
Back over nine years ago, I obtained my present health coverage for a $92 mo initial premium (which only lasted six months) through a lengthy underwriting procedure where I:
-had to provide all my medical records;
-had to sign a waiver stating that I understood I would have no maternity care;
-had to provide my family history
They then sent a local nurse to my home where she:
-looked closely at the condition of my skin, hair and eyes and made a report;
-took my blood pressure;
-listened to my heart and then took an EKG reading;
-moved my limbs around to determine my range of motion;
-took five vials of blood and wrapped it up in a special refrigerated box in front of me to mail it off to an east-coast lab;
-brought her own scale which she used to take my height and weight; and
-took several photos of me top to bottom in front, side and rear view.
It then took two more months for them decide if they wanted me and to confirm the premium that was quoted to me.
***
Now, here we are in 2013 and nothing’s changed, except that I’ve been lifting weights several times per week for 4.5 years and am in better shape. I haven’t used the plan anywhere near the degree of what I paid into it and now they are “dropping me” because it’s not profitable enough for them to do biz in CA anymore. I now pay them nearly 4X the premium I did when they first covered me. Most of my rate hikes were since “Obamacare” was announced in 2010 where our President, in trying to “sell” the PPACA to to the public, told the nation, “If you like your insurance plan, you can keep it.”
We all now know the outcome of that (infamous) statement.
I know I’m not alone and won’t be alone. I reread this thread and discovered Pigg Hatfield got a similar letter to my recent termination letter back in February from Pacificare (part of United Healthcare). This is really everyone’s problem now.
Since none of us can control the speed and direction of this train wreck, I’ve decided I’m going out with a bang. Since I may never be able to see my (renowned) doctors again, I’ve scheduled three (expensive) “preventative” exams/tests for 2013 and will schedule the fourth by the end of the week. At least I will have all these results by EOY (for just $50 out-of-pocket, folks) and KNOW the exact condition of my health before I subject myself to the watered-down vagaries of semi-socialized medicine for 65-80% more in monthly premium :=]
Participant[quote=no_such_reality] . . . Frankly, Aetna was a non-competitive bit player in the private insurance market having less than a 5% market share.[/quote]
NSR, Aetna IS a giant. It just lost most of its in individual market share in CA since 2011 because it has always been more picky on who it underwrites. It is NOT more expensive for those who take care of themselves but it is more expensive for the masses, thus, so many CA individual policyholders left Aetna in recent years and signed up elsewhere after getting repeated rate hikes … as I did. Aetna is nationwide … and believe it or not, a LOT of states have a “perceived” overall healthier population than CA … at least perceived through the eyes of insurance companies. Almost ALL of Aetna’s CA rate hikes since 2010 (and probably other health insurance companies as well) have been due to the fact that they couldn’t deny coverage at will … like they had been doing for years.
Believe it or not, it is NOT WORTH it for insurance companies to even collect a $1100, $1500 or $2100 a month premium on a LOT of “guaranteed-issue” new sign-ups.
I’m not stumping for insurance carriers here … just stating facts.
Now, they will actually have to cover members of this population for as little as ~$550 per month (most of whom will have tax credits to pay most of the premium)!
I haven’t checked which companies in the exchange will be administering the Medi-Cal plans but it is my understanding that the Medi-Cal masses will be waiting for the same care in the same waiting rooms as the self-insureds and employer-insureds.
Currently, the Medi-Cal masses, for the most part, use their own community clinics for office visits.
Participant[quote=SD Realtor] . . . It is very simple, at some point the sheer numbers do not get supported given cost parameters, and the number of those contributing. The result is a ever lower bar that is the common denominator.[/quote]
This is my greatest fear. Having lost four immediate family members from illness, I fear losing access and choice. For example, I feel that if I wish to be treated for cancer at a program offered by the Mayo Clinic, MD Anderson or Johns Hopkins and am willing to travel, I should have that option. I didn’t take care of myself all these years and pay my own premiums to wait 1-hour plus in waiting rooms with tons of patients (some of them sick) with their strollers in tow because they didn’t get baby sitters, only to be seen for five minutes max by an overburdened provider who hasn’t taken a lunch break.
I don’t want to belong to a plan which gives little choice of providers to a multitude of *new* sign-ups in a given locale.
And I don’t want to wait 10 months + for a date to get elective surgery.
Also, I feel most of the best doctors in SD are 60-plus years old. Many of these doctors (a few of whom are my current providers) are undoubtedly going to become incredibly frustrated with all the red tape dealing with the exchange and their *new,* possibly sicker patients going on the plans when they need care and then letting their plans lapse . . . repeatedly. And I fear they will also become disgusted with the low reimbursement rates due to very high administration costs in the state exchange bureaucracy. This will prompt them to throw in the towel and “retire” (because they can!) leaving the newbies and well-oiled medical-office machines (who give 2-3 mins to each patient after a 40+ min wait) to pick up the slack.
I just have a vivid recall of how the old SD Naval Hospital used to run (in Balboa Park) with shower curtains hanging a foot-plus from the floor separating patient rooms and the “pharmacy” set up exactly like a bus stop with a little window outside with a number machine and benches to sit and wait in front. I’ve come a lo-o-o-o-ong way since then and don’t want to relive it :=0
Participant[quote=outtamojo]Left-over antibiotics? Don’t you know that between one of you not finishing out your prescription and the other not getting a whole prescription you are helping to create resistant super-organisms?[/quote]
outtamojo, that’s kind of wacky. I though that only happened to people who overuse antibiotics.
In any case, LOTS of people have repeated refills left on common antibiotic prescriptions which they don’t fill because they are “better” now and don’t want to overuse antibiotics. Those refills could ostensibly be filled for your 20-something brother or friend who is uninsured and needs them.
ParticipantI just noticed insurance giant United Health is also not participating in CA’s state-run healthcare exchange. That’s three giants and counting.
And I wonder who will bail out by the end of 2014, primarily due to overall quality of new sign-ups in Covered CA. It’s going to be very interesting to watch. Whatever, the case, we are moving towards a monopoly on healthplan insurers in CA.
This does NOT bode well for keeping rates down going forward :=0
And I agree with SDR. If I was 20-something, otherwise “healthy,” and not covered by a parent or employer, I would use community clinics (whose fees are on a sliding scale) and borrow unexpired prescription antibiotics occasionally from my friends and family before I paid $200 + month for a nearly worthless plan 🙂
This is ONE of the reasons why Obamacare’s “theory” of the healthy insureds’ premiums subsidizing the unhealthy insureds’ premiums isn’t going to work out well.
At that age, that money is better directed to a student loan or savings to buy a vehicle.
ParticipantI got a letter from my carrier yesterday that Aetna is leaving the individual market in CA on 12-31-13. They will return all CA applications for new policies still in their possession on 6/24/13. Apparently, they did not want to upgrade their CA HDHP policies to conform with PPACA standards to roll out on 10/1/13.
www calhealth net/Aetna_leaves_California_individual_health_market.htm
http://insuremekevin.com/2013/06/19/aetna-drops-individual-health-insurance-in-california/
They will still write and service large employer-sponsored health plans in CA (employers of over 50 employees) and will be giving up approximately 49K (part of them “grandfathered”) individual policyholders in CA, like myself.
I’m going to have to avail myself of the state-run “silver plan,” and can hopefully qualify for a smallish tax credit to help pay for it. It’s going to be about 65% more expensive than my current plan and have higher copays than I have, higher generic prescription costs and higher costs for tests and X-rays. Only it’s OOP annual cap is lower, but only by $1600.
In any case, I cannot address this issue until CoveredCA rolls out the particulars after 10/1/13, i.e. which carrier for which plan (YES, there’s a HUGE DIFFERENCE between carriers) and choice (or lack thereof) of providers.
It’s time to finish scheduling whatever expensive tests I think I’ll need for the next few years NOW as their costs are going to go w-a-a-a-ay up for me after 1/1/14.
Meanwhile, I got another $35 rate hike beginning July 1, 2013, (the 13th rate hike I’ve received since 2004, when I signed up).
I’ve gotta get my “money’s worth” now, as I’ve been relatively “healthy” and haven’t used much more than preventative services over the years.
Now, I’ll be “lumped in” by age and smoking status ONLY on the state-run exchange with my “brethren,” many of whom did NOT take stellar care of themselves over the years or had/have addiction issues which were/are, not surprisingly, now causing them major health problems. I won’t be able to obtain a healthcare premium based upon my OWN health status and level of healthcare usage (which requires effort and diligence to maintain) ever again, unless the PPACA is somehow overturned.
The days of having to medically qualify for a healthplan and premium-level (as I did) are now OVER, folks.
I believe the original intent of of “Obamacare,” FKA “Clinton-era failed healthcare-reform,” was for the healthy to pay enough in premiums to subsidize the non-healthy. I don’t have a problem with this, in theory, for cancer treatment for a deserving patient who is simply unlucky or to contribute to a program such as “Healthy Families” (CA low-income children’s coverage) but SO MANY health problems in adults (including some cancers) are self-inflicted. This is why I believe every healthcare plan applicant should be underwritten individually. Otherwise, the “system” is VERY unfair to the disciplined vegetarians, tree-hugging yogis, gym rats and otherwise athletically-inclined individuals who have never had addiction problems.
Based upon the uninsured (by choice) with whom I’ve talked to, I don’t think the healthcare reform mandate for coverage is going to be successful as there are no teeth in any laws to collect fines from those who don’t comply with obtaining and keeping coverage. In addition, many residents of SD County have Sentri passes and go to MX regularly for medical/dental treatment and have done so for many years.
Interesting times we live in, folks :=0
I hope I don’t have any big health issues next year and am able to obtain coverage with a decent carrier. Otherwise, there is just more incentive for the retired and soon-to-be-retired-but-still-under-age-65 group (of which I’m a member, lol) to leave the state in search of better carriers with better plans who are participating in state and Federal healthcare exchanges.
For example, if I am required by CoveredCA to pay ~$550 per month for some BS nearly-worthless plan run by “Health Net,” I’m going sign up but be out of here as soon as I can, folks.
The providers in CA populous counties have got to be disgusted beyond belief that Aetna and CIGNA are not participating in the state-run exchange and that Aetna is leaving the state (exc for employer-sponsored plans). I guess these two giants want to stay alive until the initiation of the PPACA shakes out and the quantity and quality of the actual poor and sick (or just sick) new applicants is known.
Of course, all the other states will be watching the results of CA’s exchange closely, as being the most populous state, CA is the “testing ground” for this debacle … err … experiment.
Participant[quote=oooreallly][quote=FlyerInHi]SK, sometimes I write too fast and don’t think. Doing all of that on iPad and multitasking tasking also.
I was just surprised that CV had only 20% all cash compared to 30% for the region (I remember something about dataquick reporting that). But you gave a good explanation – prices are higher in CV and it’s harder for investors to make money on rentals.[/quote]
There might be another angle to it…People might throw in all cash offers to get the house. But during escrow, there’s nothing preventing them from trying to get a loan while in escrow (so long closing isn’t contingent on the loan). Afterall, at closing, no one cares where the money came from as long as it’s there. Of course the only people who can play this game are people with money to begin with.[/quote]
Flyer, I believe CV’s lower percentage of all-cash buyers than county buyers overall is due to other reasons as well. That is that the bulk of buyers in CV are “worker bees” seeking housing close to work centers, many of whom have children for whom they want to enroll in its good public schools. This particular subset of buyers (young and youngish families) aren’t typically cash buyers because they don’t yet have the resources.
Another HUGE subset of “all cash” buyers are “empty nesters” and vacation-home buyers who are retirees or soon-to-be-retirees (both American and foreign). Not only does this demographic often NOT want a mortgage going forward, they have the means to pay cash for a property and some cannot otherwise qualify for a mortgage by today’s lending standards. There are no other “redeeming qualities” to CV properties (nearly 100% on tract and a good portion situated on substandard lots) except proximity to work centers and good schools. I believe that “celebrities,” retirement-home buyers and vacation home buyers in SD County using all-cash for PM are looking for LOCATION if they can afford it. SIZE doesn’t matter as much. For example, if they can get a 1400 sf WWII box in Roseville (Pt Loma) situated less than a mile uphill from where their 34-ft cabin cruiser is slipped (which they brought down here from points north), that will be just fine. Coronado and LJ are also favored by this subset of buyers, even for condos. Many of the “retiree” buyers without a pile of money to spend for a house will pay cash nonetheless but want a house close to relatives or as close to the city or water (harbor incl) as they can afford. Many of these boomer-buyers live in the “flyover states” and actually grew up in SD. They will buy a home using all-cash in Chula Vista or Lemon Grove if that is where their family members live. This happened a LOT during 2009-2011, when these buyers’ friends and relatives “back home” in SD alerted them to nearby bargains in their old neighborhoods which had virtually “unheard of” asking prices at the time.
A fourth type of “all-cash” purchaser in SD County are those seeking land, with or without a house on it (more rare than the other types). These are usually local business owners seeking a place to park company vehicles and/or have horses. They often don’t care if utilities have not yet been brought to the property. They have the connections and know-how to bring utilities there and build/remodel a house for their families on the property. This type of buyer often grew up in the area they are seeking land in or within a few miles of it. If a house sits on the piece of land they buy, they often won’t occupy said house until it is refurbished to their liking and they will undertake this refurbishment themselves or contract all or part of it out themselves. Several areas of East and North County and a couple of areas of South County are VERY attractive to this subset of buyers, especially in those areas where relatively flat, useable lots still exist.
Unlike counties in some “flyover” states where the entire county is as flat as a pool table and all the same temperature, SD County offers diversity in geography, views and weather for everyone, which is attractive to many out-of-state buyers. Proximity to tech jobs or perceived “good schools” only matters to a small subset of buyers who are overwhelmingly youngish worker bees in certain occupations. There ARE many other types of buyers and RE markets out there where all-cash is frequently used for purchase money.
-
AuthorPosts
