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bearishgurl
Participant[quote=spdrun]Bearishgurl: I’m not sure about “cheapest in the country.” I’m looking at houses in good working-class areas of NJ now, and they’re in the mid $100k range for a house that’s old but well-built.
Taxes in good towns are about $400-450/mo is the kicker (can be higher in badly-run towns), but TX isn’t known for cheap property taxes either.
And what about Michigan? Not Detroit area, but Grand Rapids is fairly reasonable and actually doing quite well.[/quote]
I don’t know about NJ … that’s your expertise. But I didn’t think of MI. Yes, it’s likely the cheapest in the country for a well-built SFR but freezing cold and has nowhere near the job opportunities TX has. I would think NJ, being so close to NYC, has much better job opps than MI and therefore its housing stock should be worth more.
Participant[quote=desmond][quote=bearishgurl][quote=desmond]I guess you did not have a few thousand acres of land, a lake house, oil and gas wells, rental homes, another new gas well on the way and a great family in Texas. Too bad, Svelte. It is raining today but no parade. No need to show your anger, watch this you might calm down.
[/quote]
desmond, I saw your “bucolic” video the other day and I think it’s great that you were able to finally restore that barn to park your “toys” in. I could move to a same/similar situation as you did … with family support in every direction to help me with whatever I needed. Having resided in Cali more than 50 years (Norcal AND Socal), I agree that the Golden State has seen better days but would still consider some of Norcal’s semi-rural and rural counties to “retire” in. The PROBLEM is finding a lower-cost SFR ($350K or less) in many of these counties which meets my needs and requirements (which aren’t that stringent) due to a constant severe shortage of listings. It seems that even young families are checking out of the rat race that is SF Bay and settling into areas such as Lake County, CA to raise their children among sheep, goats, vineyards and other crops. Obviously, those who have done so likely had well-established parents in those counties (or neighboring counties) and have “bought” their properties from relatives or were deeded them.
I’m going to make a decision on what to do within the year. My last kid who is a freshman in college is required live on campus for one year and as soon as I can situate them into a more permanent living arrangement, I’ll feel much freer to leave the area and maybe even the state.
In truly envy you (yes, in spite of the oppressive heat, loud crickets and chiggers). Living amongst family no doubt makes it all worthwhile.[/quote]
My whole point on moving out of California is that it is just easier to live in other areas. My son bought a great home in Georgetown for $175k, he was 25. You can’t do that in CA. Now most on this board are tech people so CA is best for them, but for others especially younger adults staying in CA is not worth it. btw, I grew up in Escondido, raised my kids in Valencia and it is not any hotter in TX. I was somewhat worried about the humidity but now I don’t even notice it. But then again I am no soft techie……………….but I don’t have their brains either………[/quote]
desmond, you don’t have to be a “techie” to make great money in tech firms in the Silicon Valley. Business majors of all stripes are also in hot demand there and can make just as much or more than “techies” depending on major, experience and contacts (not necessarily in the that order). Yes, the housing situation there on the peninsula is challenging for young families but not so much for singles who can pair, triple or quadruple up or sublet a room and a bath. Fortunately, in SF, the vast majority of apt (flats) are 1000 to 3200 sf (typical 1000 and 2200 sf on one floor) because they usually take up 1/2 to a whole floor of a building which is 75 – 105 years old. So there is ample room for a shared roommate situation. If the worker (or retiree) lives in a “rent controlled” bldg, they’re golden. Also, LOTS of young workers there have local relatives who own rental homes, condos and apt bldgs and can give them a deal for as long as they need it. The housing situation in SF/SV hits hardest the new worker in town with no local contacts and who doesn’t know their way around.
I honestly believe that many more young families with tech workers could live on the peninsula but won’t accept the age and size of housing available (and the spouse refuses to take even PT employment, as well). Instead they rent or buy somewhere one-hour + south or across a bridge and make their daily lives exceedingly difficult for themselves and their families, causing them to bail out on the position they took long before they were able to squeeze all the opportunities, money and benefits from SV that they potentially could.
When you’re too old to be a “hot commodity” anymore, having assets and liquidity is king. In this day and age, you MUST endeavor to get as much money/benefits out of your employers as you can while young (preferably under 40) and hang onto as much of it as possible.
kev, are you listening? Have you found a SV headhunter to work with yet??
WOW, desmond, Georgetown (TX) also looks “bucolic.” Its historic architecture reminds me of mtn towns I often visit. Looks like it is in hill country as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown,_Texas
Yeah, TX is definitely the cheapest place in the country to buy a good, high quality (brick?) house.
The last two week’s weather (esp this last week and NOW) in SD County (although an anomaly) rivals or exceeds TX summer weather sans the A/C that most households do not have here. (I’m running 24/7 a whole house fan and three large fans and all I can say is, “My poor pets …”)
The great thing about TX (especially with long-established family nearby) is that you don’t have to worry about your old age. You can drive each other to appts, tow each other out of ditches in a wind/ice/hailstorm, store and repair each other’s houses and vehicles, grow and put up food together and share it, loan each other your flatbed trucks and heavy equip, help each other move, etc. I know if I moved to be near my extended posse in “flyover country,” I would never have to pay for ANY of the services I pay for now. I could barter away until the cows come home … even for “professional” services 😀
Participant[quote=spdrun]Not really. You can reset the ECU to clear codes. But all OBD readiness indicators have to be “ready” before you can pass emissions, which requires a certain length and type of drive cycle.
So basically, if you have a fault, you can repair it and clear it, but then you have to drive the car for a given distance to allow it to test itself.
Interestingly, the average age of a car registered in the US is 11.4 years now. It’s hit a plateau since 2009. People are actually keeping cars longer than ever. Despite Cash for Clunkers, Bernanke Bucks, and all that crapola designed to encourage them to spend like drunken sailors at a Port Said bordello.[/quote]
Oh yeah, I KNOW I have to drive for at least 15 mins on the hwy after clearing the codes to get the best result.
The REASON people in Cali are keeping their older cars (not sure about other states) is because of the exorbitant cost of auto insurance coverage here. If I had a “newer” vehicle similar to mine (say 2011), my coverage cost with the same limits of liability would more than double, even though I only drive about 11,500 to 13,000 miles per year (only 6-7K of those miles locally).
It’s not really worth it for the “casual” or “semi-retired/retired” driver to pay $200+ per month in car insurance while the vehicle is garaged for days at a time (believe me, I’ve ran thru some purchasing scenarios my agent). Especially for a driver who could put that money to much better use.
Also, I think it is highway robbery to be charged 8% sales tax on a late model vehicle where sales tax on the full price of that vehicle was just paid on it a few years ago as new. Even if you purchase a late model vehicle from a private party who is willing to “fudge” on a bill of sale how much you actually paid for it, it would be a little difficult to convince the DMV that you only paid a few thousand for it (say a 2011 Lexus), unless you are attempting to title an intra-family vehicle transfer and your seller-family member is standing right next to you with his/her ID at the ready.
Participant[quote=bearishgurl][quote=spdrun]Perfect project for auto shop classes, and as a parts donor for real school buses. Truck chassis probably has some parts commonality with some school bus, somewhere 🙂
Hey, it was free. Some mo govahment cheeze, if you puh-leeze.[/quote]
That was my first impression … that it was “acquired” via DRMO or GSA auction (or simply transferred to SDUSD via a gov’mt accounting loophole).[/quote]
Uh, yeah … just as I thought:
…The MRAP, which is valued at $730,000, was acquired for a mere pittance – $5,000 in shipping fees – through the controversial Excess Property Program, or 1033 program. That’s the same Department of Defense setup that has drawn fire following the Ferguson, MO protests…
I can’t imagine that it will be sent to kids’ homes in the middle of the school day in attempt to ambush “truant” kids, lol ….
Participant[quote=spdrun]Perfect project for auto shop classes, and as a parts donor for real school buses. Truck chassis probably has some parts commonality with some school bus, somewhere 🙂
Hey, it was free. Some mo govahment cheeze, if you puh-leeze.[/quote]
That was my first impression … that it was “acquired” via DRMO or GSA auction (or simply transferred to SDUSD via a gov’mt accounting loophole).
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Flu. I own a service station in CA.
You cannot reset the ECU to pass smog. The whole drive cycle needs to run for your car to pass smog. The newer cars now sent the VIN when you plug in.
The new rules were negotiated with auto manufacturers who want their customers to have a good consumer experience (easy smog).
The benefit is that new cars are perfectly clean, expect for the CO2 of course. Compare to the polluting old cars of past.[/quote]
LOL, who would have thunk it! Could it be that the “auto manufacturers'” lobbyists in Sacramento were successful in getting legislation passed which would have the eventual effect of consumers purchasing more new cars more often out of “presumed” necessity??
Participant[quote=spdrun]Too much money in it not to have duplicate bureaucracies. Someone is making money certifying the parts for CA use, not to mention selling the certified parts for an inflated price.
The ironic thing is that I actually see more smoky clunkers on the road in CA than around NYC. Not sure if safety inspection gets rid of the worst of the worst, or if they simply die due to rust before they can turn into smoking messes.[/quote]
I don’t believe pre-1973 vehicles have to be “smogged” in CA and we don’t have “safety inspections” per se (any Pigg correct me if I’m wrong here).
Participant[quote=flu][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=flu]The one thing I absolutely can’t stand about CA…
The idiotic, bureaucratic CARB rules….[/quote]
California was the leader in clean air. In fact, the EPA eventually adopted California rules, as have other states who implemented smog programs.
The rules are made for everybody. If you don’t like them, put your car on non-op and make it a track car.
I’m sure people remember the polluted air back in in the 80s and before. Smog alerts all the time. LA was almost like Beijing. The air cleared up in the 90s.[/quote]
It is entirely possible to pass a sniff test but still fail carb because of stupid rules.
But what is going to be even more fun is watching a lot of you going in for the post MY2002 cars smog checks…..
Basically, those tests will require only an OBDII link, and if your ECU ends up throwing any CEL’s (even if it isn’t directly related to emissions), you might end up failing the smog test anyway even without a sniff check.. It’s not a problem for folks with OBDII scanners that can simply reset whatever fault codes or folks that have a custom flashed ECU that can do whatever to the ECU…. But it will be very very interesting to see what it does to the average person who doesn’t have that ability……[/quote]
I’ve ordered an OBD II scanner because I’m about to hit the road again on a ~4400 mile odyssey. (My vehicle was built in an OBD I year (MY) except was an early adopter of OBD II). I won’t EVER attempt to smog it in Cali again until I know exactly how it is going to read before going in there. Cali really doesn’t want any older vehicles still on the road and is insidiously doing everything in their power to keep them from getting re-registered. The state should change the term “biennial smog check” to “biennial everything check” because essentially, that’s what it is. It has little to do with being a “gross polluter” although the state BAR uses that term very “loosely.” It’s an expensive “gotcha” and constant revenue stream for state-supported “Test and Repair” stations and I refuse to play the game anymore. Stay away from them and patronize only “test-only” stations for your biennial “smog” check.
Like many older vehicle owners, I’m not stupid. I know my 20 yo Lexus is very well maintained and if it wasn’t, I wouldn’t take it out alone on the desolate, open road. I also have several relatives in “flyover” states (which don’t have “smog checks” in place) who will pay me a very fair price for my vehicle should I want to sell it while I’m there due to a major breakdown. I also have relatives in one state who have a shop who can repair major items on it for a fair price (although they would need to have parts shipped in).
For the last 3 years or so, I’ve carried all my vehicle’s service records and title with me on the open road so I will have “options” in the event of a major breakdown. But I expect it will last at least another 200K miles with regular maintenance.
Participant[quote=flu]I’d take silicon valley over georgia anyday…If you still care that much about your career and you are a techie and you are single, that’s the direction I’d personally go…Planning ahead. Companies always look great on paper for the first few months or even a year…The question is, what are you going to do IF it doesn’t work out and you want to move out… In the Valley, if you can’t stand X, you walk your resume over to Y, and you can probably get a better position/comp package for doing so….Even if you haven’t stayed put for more than a year, it generally isn’t frowned upon, because everyone does it too.
Much less here in SD…And even more so in Georgia….
If you’re gonna go through the trouble of relocating, I’d try up north first..I’d even stretch to say that if you’re single and a techie and don’t have property here in SD, the choice between Silicon Valley and SD is also a no brainer…[/quote]
kev, I third flu’s advice. The last we heard from you, you were living in the OC (renting, I believe). SV is the place for you to go to make money. You may very well be able to move up fast in a SV firm, depending on your experience and niche. Start scattering your resumes up there or work with a SV “headhunter.” SV has more than 50 miles of tech companies who as flu said are always “churning” employees … not usually thru firings but because the employees are on the move up there in order to gain different experiences and get better pay/benefit packages or companies deliberately “poach” employee(s) from their “competition.” If I were you, I’d focus on the money and benefits now because there will inevitably come a time where you won’t be able to anymore due to age. Forget the concept of “job security.” It really doesn’t exist.
Participant[quote=flu][quote=spdrun]Get a pre-1997 diesel. Problem solved, no smog test required. And Mercedes made some damn nice cars in the early 90s that would last forever :)[/quote]
Uh, no….[/quote]
With these cars, you need a good reasonably-priced diesel mechanic chained to your ankle. Not only are they annoyingly noisy, they habitually leak like a sieve (main seal?) and their electric windows (incl moonroof), hydraulics and A/C are all prone to failure. And Good Luck in finding parts … especially for the 1980’s models.
I will say, however, that it is much tougher to get killed in one. They’re built like a tank (and driving them is akin to driving a tank) :=0
Participant[quote=desmond]I guess you did not have a few thousand acres of land, a lake house, oil and gas wells, rental homes, another new gas well on the way and a great family in Texas. Too bad, Svelte. It is raining today but no parade. No need to show your anger, watch this you might calm down.
[/quote]
desmond, I saw your “bucolic” video the other day and I think it’s great that you were able to finally restore that barn to park your “toys” in. I could move to a same/similar situation as you did … with family support in every direction to help me with whatever I needed. Having resided in Cali more than 50 years (Norcal AND Socal), I agree that the Golden State has seen better days but would still consider some of Norcal’s semi-rural and rural counties to “retire” in. The PROBLEM is finding a lower-cost SFR ($350K or less) in many of these counties which meets my needs and requirements (which aren’t that stringent) due to a constant severe shortage of listings. It seems that even young families are checking out of the rat race that is SF Bay and settling into areas such as Lake County, CA to raise their children among sheep, goats, vineyards and other crops. Obviously, those who have done so likely had well-established parents in those counties (or neighboring counties) and have “bought” their properties from relatives or were deeded them.
I’m going to make a decision on what to do within the year. My last kid who is a freshman in college is required live on campus for one year and as soon as I can situate them into a more permanent living arrangement, I’ll feel much freer to leave the area and maybe even the state.
In truly envy you (yes, in spite of the oppressive heat, loud crickets and chiggers). Living amongst family no doubt makes it all worthwhile.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Blogstar][quote=FlyerInHi]
Personal experiences are frequently the problem. We should try reason and intellect more often.[/quote]
Poor sport.
You don’t like reality
you don’t like facts
you don’t like experience.
You make up fairy tales
enemy of logic or common sense.
You corrupt way too much of what people say.Then you claim “intellect” should do it somehow?
Looking good there buddy.[/quote]
It has been show that personal experiences can result in highly inaccurate testimony.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/The facts is that a killing happened in Ferguson and that there are problems in the police department.
But a DOJ investigation is dismissed as “fake” and a “ruse”, when it’s the only action that could cause the police department to reform and implement new policies. There will likely be some data collection requirements, and a period of monitoring of the police department to gauge adherence and progress.
BTW, lots of institutions don’t collect data (facts)on purposes because they don’t want the discovery of inconvenient truths.[/quote]
I agree with brian here. In the absence of law enforcement oversight agencies such as “Law Enforcement Review Boards” and “PERB-like” agencies in place, ordering the DOJ investigation on the Ferguson PD was proper. In most jurisdictions of “flyover country,” public employees (including safety workers and teachers) are not unionized. Most people think that is for the best, since non-unionized teachers make $30-40K (instead of $60-70K made by unionized teachers) after ~15 years of service (in the absence of taking an assignment at a school serving an “underserved” student body). Actually, it is NOT for the “good of the People” because a LOT of STUFF gets swept under the rug as “biz as usual.” Why? Because there are no written procedures in place for many issues that crop up. Why is this? Because there are no unions in place to insist upon them (for the good of the employees AND the taxpayers). Govm’t “tribunals” in many jurisdictions of “flyover country” either do not exist or exist in name only and have never been staffed or used. It’s well past time for a bright flashlight to be shone on the Ferguson PD. If they turn out to be innocent of any wrongdoing, then so be it. Then they have nothing to worry about.
In flyover country, “past practice” in gubment is often the order of the day and they dare any citizen to question it. If you do … and cite the law to them in writing as to what their “duties” are … they will continue to stall for months and YEARS until you get a lawyer and file a writ in court to compel them to act in their “ministerial duties.” I’ve experienced this phenomenon first-hand in a “flyover state.” In early 2012, I helped a cousin file claims for unclaimed property he saw advertised in his local paper in the form of gas and oil royalties the gubment had been collecting income from for the 8 years prior to advertising the income as “unclaimed property” as prescribed by law. He and his 3 siblings were the only survivors left to be able to file a legitimate claim for said income. After producing MOUNTAINS of proof of he and his siblings lineage, producing the wills and Final Distributions of his long-deceased parents and PROVING beyond a shadow of a doubt that ALL OTHER POSSIBLE HEIRS were deceased and left behind no one (photos of grave markers, obituaries, SS Death Index printout and death certificates), the state treasurers office FINALLY revealed to him an operator of ONE well (out of state) and 3 (vague) parcel numbers of current active wells (in an endeavor NOT to match the sections with the exact legal descriptions mentioned in my cousins’ parents’ wills and Final Distributions). We later discovered portions of the vaguely-described sections by the state matched the parent(s)’ legal descriptions but the active wells on them were shared by several operators (in and out of state) stradding other sections of land and a couple of sections had dozens of “owners” (which is common). Further letters to the treasurer’s office asking for specific clarification were futile. Due to inadequate information provided to one operator, we have not yet gotten a full response from them. Through a great deal of research, we know who the other operators are but do not yet have the correct sections/parcels to refer to.
MY file on this matter is 5″ thick and I’m 1600 mi away, lol. As far as I know my cousin STILL doesn’t have a date for an administrative hearing on the matter (which we requested several times in writing, citing the appropriate section of law) or has been able to hire a lawyer. The state’s attorney general’s office does not deny that my cousins are entitled to their portion of these royalties, which pay out quarterly. I’m headed back there next month so I’ll find out and perhaps try to get him counsel who will work on a contingency basis :=0
Meanwhile, we figured the state is currently collecting $3.2M – $3.8M annually on royalties from these 5-6 active wells because no one has come forth to claim them but my cousins (for obvious reasons).
Even though my cousin is “retired” and lives less than two miles from state offices, has served them personally with everything (getting conformed copies) and can camp on their doorstep if he wishes to, Joe6p can’t fight city hall alone. It is clear that the state knows damn well exactly where the checks are coming from because THEY are collecting them and are stonewalling my cousin into oblivion, hoping he will get tired and go away.
One can only imagine how much other gas and oil royalty income the state has been collecting over the years due to all the (ignorant) heirs out there who don’t realize they’re entitled to them and/or don’t read the state’s published “unclaimed property” lists. It’s like trying to find a needle in a haystack and that’s exactly how the state likes it.
Participant[quote=njtosd]OK, Brian, you got removed from the board for politics, and now you’re hijacking threads to talk about fat people. It seems all roads lead back to obesity for you . . .[/quote]
nj, I think the state of the overall health of Ferguson’s residents is relevant here. Poor health (as well as lack of opportunities) leads to depression and hopelessness. It’s likely that both sides of this sad saga have issues with one or both.You would have to have your boots on the ground (and it wouldn’t hurt to put on a little bug repellent first) to see …. and believe ….
For example, in Cali, every single piece of land of properly “platted” (except for National parkland). A very large portion of Cali parcels have been professionally replatted multiple times thru various changes made to the original parcel map. A CA RE buyer knows exactly what they are buying in the form of receiving a preliminary title report during escrow, which he/she has to approve by a date set prior to closing and re-approve it at the time of closing. Every single easement is listed on the title report for the buyer’s written approval, as well. There are VERY few surprises in this regard, which would be covered by title insurance if discovered by the buyer after closing.
This is not necessarily the case in many parts of “flyover country.” Title insurance often does not exist in the form that we in Cali know it. A buyer must hire an “abstractor” who will cull the public records to determine owner rights and encumbrances (depending on locale, the seller will often split the cost). An “abstractor” does not need to be an attorney (but can be) and the title of “abstractor” does not have any special education and experience requirements. In some jurisdictions, “abstractors” are not even licensed. VERY often a seller cannot guarantee that there is not “open and notorious use” of a portion or strip of his/her land by an adjacent landowner who would have a legal claim on the portion they have been using every day (or nearly) for a good number of years … and in any case, the seller is under no obligation to disclose this information to a prospective buyer. A prospective buyer can’t control the water quality running out of nearby tributaries into ditch(es) running through property he/she has had an accepted offer to purchase on (a very common occurrence). It could very well be poisoned by pesticides, fertilizer, human or livestock sewage, nearby fracking operations or even worse, chemicals discarded from nearby crystal meth labs. The buyer may only learn this AFTER purchase AFTER they had unexplained losses of livestock and other animals and then had the water tested.
It is not uncommon for landowners to have they land/lot surveyed for which they recently purchased in “flyover country” and learn of many surprises. (If the buyer had asked the seller to pay for the survey as a condition of sale, they likely wouldn’t have gotten their offer accepted.) If the buyer wants to do “due diligence,” he/she is frequently between a “rock and a hard place.” The buyer and their agent/broker must literally talk to every adjacent landowner (preferably in person) prior to making an offer to find out what each knows about the property and get access to the land with an engineer who has already done his/her homework … that is, if he/she can locate and make appts to speak to these owners in a timely manner … at the property.
And just because a buyer may be interested in a lot/parcel in an “incorporated area” or “town(ship)” doesn’t neccessarily mean: a) that ALL the parcels (or even contiguous parcels) in that town/city have access to a public sewer system; b) that neighboring properties with septic tanks/leachfields have been maintaining them properly; c) that neighboring improved parcels are actually fully hooked up to all utilities; d) that close neighbors won’t be allowed to park non-running vehicles on blocks, farm equipment or even triple-tractor trailers on their front yard 24/7/365; and, e) that there is any government oversight in place at all to police any of the above issues.
There isn’t even any regular testing of the water of public lakes in many areas… even lakes bordering National parkland. I myself have returned home with painful double ear infections twice after waterskiing and swimming near beaches in two different large “resort” lakes over 100 miles apart in “flyover country.” This occurred in the last decade.
A lot of Americans (CA residents and non-residents alike) complain vociferously (incl Piggs) that Cali is too highly regulated and has too many agencies which need to be supported by taxes and the tax burden on CA businesses is too great. It’s all in place for very good reasons and most Cali residents take it all for granted.
For the complainants, the “Fergusons of the world” (and there are hundreds in this country, if not thousands) are your alternative. Take your pick.
Participant[quote=Blogstar]. . . The grow your vegetables commentary was about the some what irresponsible food desert comments and I said what the response would be from many people in the “food desert” based on my having lived in one with decendants of slaves ,if you suggested they grow their own vegetables. I think many people would still say it. BG, Lots of the white people would make excuses too, even in my family. Too be even fairer to me, which is totally appropriate, the food desert was brought out as a black equality issue when it came out in the public. . . [/quote]
Russ, you don’t have to “justify” your opinions on here to me or anyone else. You’re entitled to them as I am to mine. Our opinions are borne of our own personal life experiences.
By bringing up the “food desert” in semi-rural and rural parts of “flyover country,” I was trying to point out the different lifestyles there as opposed to living in Cali (yes, including the lower-income Central Cali and other rural areas of the state). It’s NOT a “race issue.” It’s about the availability, quality and cost of fresh food to all residents who live there.
Remember from my earlier link that the current “student population” of McCluer South-Berkeley High School, located in Ferguson, MO, had a 99.8% Black student population.
But this really isn’t the case with Ferguson OR the other towns which the school serves.
Nor do those stats necessarily mean that BOTH parents (and both sets of grandparents) of a current Black HS student at McCluer South-Berkeley HS are actually African American (or even 1/4 African American) themselves. All it means is that the surrounding K-12 population which that school serves (5 towns) have an overwhelmingly Black student population.
Observe that the Ferguson police force is comprised of more than 50% races OTHER than African American (based only on photos in the news that I’ve seen).
How many active police officers/supervisors on the force are older than 45 years old? Older than 55 years old? Could it be that some of (or most) of these officers grew up in the immediate area?? How do we know that Ferguson’s “White” officers don’t still live nearby? If you look at the 2010 population stats for Ferguson, MO, we see that it was just over 2/3 African American:
. . . The racial makeup of the city was 29.3% White, 67.4% African American, 0.4% Native American, 0.5% Asian, 0.4% from other races, and 2.0% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.2% of the population. . . . The median age in the city was 33.1 years. 28.7% of residents were under the age of 18; 10.4% were between the ages of 18 and 24; 25.2% were from 25 to 44; 25.3% were from 45 to 64; and 10.3% were 65 years of age or older.. . .
For the year 2000, we see:
The racial makeup of the city was 44.8% White, 52.4% African American, 0.1% Native American, 0.7% Asian, < 0.1% Pacific Islander, 0.4% from other races, and 1.7% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.0% of the population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson,_Missouri
What does all this tell us?
What is says to me is that Ferguson (as a microcosm of “flyover country”) has experienced “white flight” since 2000, perpetuating the racial segregation that its state and local government has likely been trying mightily to correct … to no avail.
The “Historical Population” chart on the right of the link indicates that Ferguson actually lost over 14% of their population in the 1970’s. It is very possible that it used to have an overwhelming majority of Whites 40+ years ago.
Even though the Black and White populations of flyover country share a lot in common, culturally, I believe the self-selecting segregation which has taken place in many areas of this region is due to the ingrained cultural biases of both cultures, partly due to influence from their elders in combination with White rural students of previous decades going off to college and never returning and younger local families being offered family support to help them buy/build a home elsewhere, as is the custom there. Believe it or not, it is not always the “Whites” who do the selecting.
Don’t get me wrong here. Whites and blacks routinely work together, shop together, go to church together, hire each other, patronize each other’s businesses and do everything else together in “flyover country.” But segregation in residence is still alive and well within cities and even “sides of town” in a big city. In semi-rural/rural “flyover country,” segregation can be much more pronounced where entire towns end up with an overwhelming preponderance of residents of one race, while being surrounded for miles by predominantly residents of another race who use the town’s stores, post office, banks and schools and are counted in the town’s population.
I strongly suspect that this is the case with Ferguson, MO.
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In SD County, even areas which are (generally presumed to be) predominantly of African American residents … in actuality, are not. All races are actually well-represented in these areas’ populations. SD County differs from most areas of “flyover country” in that it has only a <6% African American population versus 25-85% in many parts of "flyover country" and parts of the east coast. Thus, SD County doesn't have actual "racial segregation," which, in part, keeps it from having a lot of the problems experienced by the residents of Ferguson and surrounds, IMHO.
I don't know what the answer is except that I believe the self-selecting segregation in "flyover country" is heavily influenced by deeply ingrained biases of the older generations of both races and isn't easily changed. As the elders pass on, this will be less and less of an issue.
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