[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: Ah, the strong smell of moral equivalency wafts in.

Bush II is worse than Rev. Wright, so everything associated with him is morally worse and worthy of stronger condemnation.

Your posts are notoriously thin on facts, but strong on rhetoric and polemic. “War mongering” and “war profiteering” and “lying”. Clinton didn’t lie? Bush I didn’t lie? Nixon and LBJ didn’t lie?

I am so sick of the war mongering meme. So, the Clinton Administration didn’t believe Saddam had WMDs? Iraq used WMDs during the Iran-Iraq War and against the Kurds at Halabja. The idea that Bush and this neocon cabal simply cooked up the war to justify their own ends is risible, to say the least.

You accuse Nixon, a Republican, of war mongering, but conveniently ignore LBJ, a Democrat, who was responsible for escalating the Vietnam War.

Bush II is slightly better than Lucifer in your book, while you gloss over Bill Clinton and the ills of his administration, including engaging in a strongly interventionist American policy.

How about some facts? How about a thoughtful, well-reasoned argument instead of the thinly veiled strawmen?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: Ah, the strong smell of moral equivalency wafts in.

Bush II is worse than Rev. Wright, so everything associated with him is morally worse and worthy of stronger condemnation.

Your posts are notoriously thin on facts, but strong on rhetoric and polemic. “War mongering” and “war profiteering” and “lying”. Clinton didn’t lie? Bush I didn’t lie? Nixon and LBJ didn’t lie?

I am so sick of the war mongering meme. So, the Clinton Administration didn’t believe Saddam had WMDs? Iraq used WMDs during the Iran-Iraq War and against the Kurds at Halabja. The idea that Bush and this neocon cabal simply cooked up the war to justify their own ends is risible, to say the least.

You accuse Nixon, a Republican, of war mongering, but conveniently ignore LBJ, a Democrat, who was responsible for escalating the Vietnam War.

Bush II is slightly better than Lucifer in your book, while you gloss over Bill Clinton and the ills of his administration, including engaging in a strongly interventionist American policy.

How about some facts? How about a thoughtful, well-reasoned argument instead of the thinly veiled strawmen?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: Ah, the strong smell of moral equivalency wafts in.

Bush II is worse than Rev. Wright, so everything associated with him is morally worse and worthy of stronger condemnation.

Your posts are notoriously thin on facts, but strong on rhetoric and polemic. “War mongering” and “war profiteering” and “lying”. Clinton didn’t lie? Bush I didn’t lie? Nixon and LBJ didn’t lie?

I am so sick of the war mongering meme. So, the Clinton Administration didn’t believe Saddam had WMDs? Iraq used WMDs during the Iran-Iraq War and against the Kurds at Halabja. The idea that Bush and this neocon cabal simply cooked up the war to justify their own ends is risible, to say the least.

You accuse Nixon, a Republican, of war mongering, but conveniently ignore LBJ, a Democrat, who was responsible for escalating the Vietnam War.

Bush II is slightly better than Lucifer in your book, while you gloss over Bill Clinton and the ills of his administration, including engaging in a strongly interventionist American policy.

How about some facts? How about a thoughtful, well-reasoned argument instead of the thinly veiled strawmen?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: Ah, the strong smell of moral equivalency wafts in.

Bush II is worse than Rev. Wright, so everything associated with him is morally worse and worthy of stronger condemnation.

Your posts are notoriously thin on facts, but strong on rhetoric and polemic. “War mongering” and “war profiteering” and “lying”. Clinton didn’t lie? Bush I didn’t lie? Nixon and LBJ didn’t lie?

I am so sick of the war mongering meme. So, the Clinton Administration didn’t believe Saddam had WMDs? Iraq used WMDs during the Iran-Iraq War and against the Kurds at Halabja. The idea that Bush and this neocon cabal simply cooked up the war to justify their own ends is risible, to say the least.

You accuse Nixon, a Republican, of war mongering, but conveniently ignore LBJ, a Democrat, who was responsible for escalating the Vietnam War.

Bush II is slightly better than Lucifer in your book, while you gloss over Bill Clinton and the ills of his administration, including engaging in a strongly interventionist American policy.

How about some facts? How about a thoughtful, well-reasoned argument instead of the thinly veiled strawmen?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Concho: Thanks for the well reasoned response, something conspicuously missing from the modern American political climate. We are so busy labeling each other “Conservative” or “Liberal”, “right” or “left” wing that we’re missing the overall point: There is no more distinction between the parties anymore.

I’ve had more Democrats in my face over the warmongering of Dubya (a President I never voted for, ironically enough) and, when I respond with Clinton’s record, I’m invariably called a liar.

I worry about Obama because I feel the beautiful rhetoric (and he is an excellent orator) obscures what he truly believes and is really about. I’ve noticed any attempts to call this into question on this thread are greeted with charges of racism. Again, no dialogue or discourse, just ad hominem catcalls.

We need to wake up and smell the coffee before its too late, but, as Americans, that has never been something we’re particularly good at. As far as the bombings and invasions go, well, that is something that we’re particularly good at.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Concho: Thanks for the well reasoned response, something conspicuously missing from the modern American political climate. We are so busy labeling each other “Conservative” or “Liberal”, “right” or “left” wing that we’re missing the overall point: There is no more distinction between the parties anymore.

I’ve had more Democrats in my face over the warmongering of Dubya (a President I never voted for, ironically enough) and, when I respond with Clinton’s record, I’m invariably called a liar.

I worry about Obama because I feel the beautiful rhetoric (and he is an excellent orator) obscures what he truly believes and is really about. I’ve noticed any attempts to call this into question on this thread are greeted with charges of racism. Again, no dialogue or discourse, just ad hominem catcalls.

We need to wake up and smell the coffee before its too late, but, as Americans, that has never been something we’re particularly good at. As far as the bombings and invasions go, well, that is something that we’re particularly good at.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Concho: Thanks for the well reasoned response, something conspicuously missing from the modern American political climate. We are so busy labeling each other “Conservative” or “Liberal”, “right” or “left” wing that we’re missing the overall point: There is no more distinction between the parties anymore.

I’ve had more Democrats in my face over the warmongering of Dubya (a President I never voted for, ironically enough) and, when I respond with Clinton’s record, I’m invariably called a liar.

I worry about Obama because I feel the beautiful rhetoric (and he is an excellent orator) obscures what he truly believes and is really about. I’ve noticed any attempts to call this into question on this thread are greeted with charges of racism. Again, no dialogue or discourse, just ad hominem catcalls.

We need to wake up and smell the coffee before its too late, but, as Americans, that has never been something we’re particularly good at. As far as the bombings and invasions go, well, that is something that we’re particularly good at.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Concho: Thanks for the well reasoned response, something conspicuously missing from the modern American political climate. We are so busy labeling each other “Conservative” or “Liberal”, “right” or “left” wing that we’re missing the overall point: There is no more distinction between the parties anymore.

I’ve had more Democrats in my face over the warmongering of Dubya (a President I never voted for, ironically enough) and, when I respond with Clinton’s record, I’m invariably called a liar.

I worry about Obama because I feel the beautiful rhetoric (and he is an excellent orator) obscures what he truly believes and is really about. I’ve noticed any attempts to call this into question on this thread are greeted with charges of racism. Again, no dialogue or discourse, just ad hominem catcalls.

We need to wake up and smell the coffee before its too late, but, as Americans, that has never been something we’re particularly good at. As far as the bombings and invasions go, well, that is something that we’re particularly good at.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Concho: Thanks for the well reasoned response, something conspicuously missing from the modern American political climate. We are so busy labeling each other “Conservative” or “Liberal”, “right” or “left” wing that we’re missing the overall point: There is no more distinction between the parties anymore.

I’ve had more Democrats in my face over the warmongering of Dubya (a President I never voted for, ironically enough) and, when I respond with Clinton’s record, I’m invariably called a liar.

I worry about Obama because I feel the beautiful rhetoric (and he is an excellent orator) obscures what he truly believes and is really about. I’ve noticed any attempts to call this into question on this thread are greeted with charges of racism. Again, no dialogue or discourse, just ad hominem catcalls.

We need to wake up and smell the coffee before its too late, but, as Americans, that has never been something we’re particularly good at. As far as the bombings and invasions go, well, that is something that we’re particularly good at.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Concho: Not wanting to detract from that very funny and quite pithy interpretation of current neocon thinking, but weren’t the libbies and left wingers in Congress climbing all over each other in their haste to sign the Patriot Act?

I don’t agree with the policies of this administration, especially as regards torture, but it appears to me that Bill Clinton was also a big fan of “extraordinary rendition”, as well as the signatory President on the NSA Echelon and Carnivore programs.

It ain’t just the God-loving, gun-packing, NASCAR-watching, beer-swilling, pickup-driving right wing nutjobs you gotta worry about. The libs and lefties are right there, too, shoveling dirt on the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Concho: Not wanting to detract from that very funny and quite pithy interpretation of current neocon thinking, but weren’t the libbies and left wingers in Congress climbing all over each other in their haste to sign the Patriot Act?

I don’t agree with the policies of this administration, especially as regards torture, but it appears to me that Bill Clinton was also a big fan of “extraordinary rendition”, as well as the signatory President on the NSA Echelon and Carnivore programs.

It ain’t just the God-loving, gun-packing, NASCAR-watching, beer-swilling, pickup-driving right wing nutjobs you gotta worry about. The libs and lefties are right there, too, shoveling dirt on the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Concho: Not wanting to detract from that very funny and quite pithy interpretation of current neocon thinking, but weren’t the libbies and left wingers in Congress climbing all over each other in their haste to sign the Patriot Act?

I don’t agree with the policies of this administration, especially as regards torture, but it appears to me that Bill Clinton was also a big fan of “extraordinary rendition”, as well as the signatory President on the NSA Echelon and Carnivore programs.

It ain’t just the God-loving, gun-packing, NASCAR-watching, beer-swilling, pickup-driving right wing nutjobs you gotta worry about. The libs and lefties are right there, too, shoveling dirt on the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Concho: Not wanting to detract from that very funny and quite pithy interpretation of current neocon thinking, but weren’t the libbies and left wingers in Congress climbing all over each other in their haste to sign the Patriot Act?

I don’t agree with the policies of this administration, especially as regards torture, but it appears to me that Bill Clinton was also a big fan of “extraordinary rendition”, as well as the signatory President on the NSA Echelon and Carnivore programs.

It ain’t just the God-loving, gun-packing, NASCAR-watching, beer-swilling, pickup-driving right wing nutjobs you gotta worry about. The libs and lefties are right there, too, shoveling dirt on the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Concho: Not wanting to detract from that very funny and quite pithy interpretation of current neocon thinking, but weren’t the libbies and left wingers in Congress climbing all over each other in their haste to sign the Patriot Act?

I don’t agree with the policies of this administration, especially as regards torture, but it appears to me that Bill Clinton was also a big fan of “extraordinary rendition”, as well as the signatory President on the NSA Echelon and Carnivore programs.

It ain’t just the God-loving, gun-packing, NASCAR-watching, beer-swilling, pickup-driving right wing nutjobs you gotta worry about. The libs and lefties are right there, too, shoveling dirt on the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: I’m curious as to where your “facts” came from.

Specifically, the statement that Dubya spent more money on killing people than any President since Nixon. I was under the impression that LBJ, a Democrat, holds that dubious distinction. The Vietnam War reached its peak under LBJ, and wartime spending (on a percentage of GNP/GDP basis) was the highest in our history, only exceeded by WWII.

Also, Clinton was far more interventionist than Dubya. Look at Somalia, Haiti, Kosovo, etc. And his posturing over Iraq was more than mere saber rattling. He expended more munitions (and money) on Iraq than Bush I did. There are dozens of examples of not only his rhetoric regarding Iraqi regime change (like the Iraqi Liberation Act), but those of Sandy Berger, Albright, Hillary, etc. Amnesty International estimated that some 500,000 Iraqis died as a result of US sanctions and bombings during the Clinton Administration. Operation Desert Fox (approved by Clinton) dropped more raw tonnage of munitions on Iraq during the last two years of his administration than the US dropped on Germany during all of WWII.

I wouldn’t be tossing terms like contorted logic out there, when your particular logic appears to have no factual supports.

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