[Allan from Fallbrook]

Surveyor: Or read.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Surveyor: Or read.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Surveyor: Or read.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Surveyor: Or read.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Surveyor: You’ll note that the debate (for want of a better term) generally breaks cleanly along ideological lines.

The Left wing element of the Democratic Party (not the liberals, there is a huge difference, ideologically speaking), has done an excellent job of demonizing the Bush Administration as a wanton bunch of neocon cowboys, and has conveniently overlooked or completely whitewashed the findings of the intel community during the Clinton years. Hence my questions on rendition, NSA domestic eavesdropping and the various Clinton intel programs, including Echelon and Carnivore.

It is akin to much of the latest literature on the Vietnam War, which finds that earlier works by Karnow and Halberstam were heavily partisan, and overlooked or ignored many key facts about the war, the most important being that the North Vietnamese Communist Party and National Liberation Front were committed to a takeover of Vietnam for ideological and not humanitarian reasons. A fact borne out by the aftermath of that war (post-1975).

A commentator on a news program one Sunday astutely pointed out that the Iraq War will have to move from Current Affairs to History before it will be able to be properly judged. Too volatile right now, and too politicized during this election year.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Surveyor: You’ll note that the debate (for want of a better term) generally breaks cleanly along ideological lines.

The Left wing element of the Democratic Party (not the liberals, there is a huge difference, ideologically speaking), has done an excellent job of demonizing the Bush Administration as a wanton bunch of neocon cowboys, and has conveniently overlooked or completely whitewashed the findings of the intel community during the Clinton years. Hence my questions on rendition, NSA domestic eavesdropping and the various Clinton intel programs, including Echelon and Carnivore.

It is akin to much of the latest literature on the Vietnam War, which finds that earlier works by Karnow and Halberstam were heavily partisan, and overlooked or ignored many key facts about the war, the most important being that the North Vietnamese Communist Party and National Liberation Front were committed to a takeover of Vietnam for ideological and not humanitarian reasons. A fact borne out by the aftermath of that war (post-1975).

A commentator on a news program one Sunday astutely pointed out that the Iraq War will have to move from Current Affairs to History before it will be able to be properly judged. Too volatile right now, and too politicized during this election year.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Surveyor: You’ll note that the debate (for want of a better term) generally breaks cleanly along ideological lines.

The Left wing element of the Democratic Party (not the liberals, there is a huge difference, ideologically speaking), has done an excellent job of demonizing the Bush Administration as a wanton bunch of neocon cowboys, and has conveniently overlooked or completely whitewashed the findings of the intel community during the Clinton years. Hence my questions on rendition, NSA domestic eavesdropping and the various Clinton intel programs, including Echelon and Carnivore.

It is akin to much of the latest literature on the Vietnam War, which finds that earlier works by Karnow and Halberstam were heavily partisan, and overlooked or ignored many key facts about the war, the most important being that the North Vietnamese Communist Party and National Liberation Front were committed to a takeover of Vietnam for ideological and not humanitarian reasons. A fact borne out by the aftermath of that war (post-1975).

A commentator on a news program one Sunday astutely pointed out that the Iraq War will have to move from Current Affairs to History before it will be able to be properly judged. Too volatile right now, and too politicized during this election year.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Surveyor: You’ll note that the debate (for want of a better term) generally breaks cleanly along ideological lines.

The Left wing element of the Democratic Party (not the liberals, there is a huge difference, ideologically speaking), has done an excellent job of demonizing the Bush Administration as a wanton bunch of neocon cowboys, and has conveniently overlooked or completely whitewashed the findings of the intel community during the Clinton years. Hence my questions on rendition, NSA domestic eavesdropping and the various Clinton intel programs, including Echelon and Carnivore.

It is akin to much of the latest literature on the Vietnam War, which finds that earlier works by Karnow and Halberstam were heavily partisan, and overlooked or ignored many key facts about the war, the most important being that the North Vietnamese Communist Party and National Liberation Front were committed to a takeover of Vietnam for ideological and not humanitarian reasons. A fact borne out by the aftermath of that war (post-1975).

A commentator on a news program one Sunday astutely pointed out that the Iraq War will have to move from Current Affairs to History before it will be able to be properly judged. Too volatile right now, and too politicized during this election year.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Surveyor: You’ll note that the debate (for want of a better term) generally breaks cleanly along ideological lines.

The Left wing element of the Democratic Party (not the liberals, there is a huge difference, ideologically speaking), has done an excellent job of demonizing the Bush Administration as a wanton bunch of neocon cowboys, and has conveniently overlooked or completely whitewashed the findings of the intel community during the Clinton years. Hence my questions on rendition, NSA domestic eavesdropping and the various Clinton intel programs, including Echelon and Carnivore.

It is akin to much of the latest literature on the Vietnam War, which finds that earlier works by Karnow and Halberstam were heavily partisan, and overlooked or ignored many key facts about the war, the most important being that the North Vietnamese Communist Party and National Liberation Front were committed to a takeover of Vietnam for ideological and not humanitarian reasons. A fact borne out by the aftermath of that war (post-1975).

A commentator on a news program one Sunday astutely pointed out that the Iraq War will have to move from Current Affairs to History before it will be able to be properly judged. Too volatile right now, and too politicized during this election year.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: I’ve been a Raiders fan since 1972 (I was 7 at the time, so I could legitimately claim I didn’t know any better), and, yes, the “thug” element of that fan base is alive and well.

I would argue that the fans of various European soccer leagues are even worse, especially in terms of overt racism, jingoism and nationalism (watch how black soccer players are treated by fans as an example).

Hockey also has its thug elements, but they’re mainly found on the ice. What’s the old joke? “I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out”.

I didn’t mean to get off on a jag, but I wanted to address the point that the US needs more soccer and hockey. Why? We don’t have enough fighting and violence already?

Football (the American version) is a sport only played by the true warrior gods among us. Rugby is very cool, but it comes from England and that’s where Hugh Grant comes from, so there you go.

If I were to be completely serious, I would argue that Australian Rules Football is the most seriously psychotic ever invented. Well, next to the Roman Gladiatorial games, that is.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: I’ve been a Raiders fan since 1972 (I was 7 at the time, so I could legitimately claim I didn’t know any better), and, yes, the “thug” element of that fan base is alive and well.

I would argue that the fans of various European soccer leagues are even worse, especially in terms of overt racism, jingoism and nationalism (watch how black soccer players are treated by fans as an example).

Hockey also has its thug elements, but they’re mainly found on the ice. What’s the old joke? “I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out”.

I didn’t mean to get off on a jag, but I wanted to address the point that the US needs more soccer and hockey. Why? We don’t have enough fighting and violence already?

Football (the American version) is a sport only played by the true warrior gods among us. Rugby is very cool, but it comes from England and that’s where Hugh Grant comes from, so there you go.

If I were to be completely serious, I would argue that Australian Rules Football is the most seriously psychotic ever invented. Well, next to the Roman Gladiatorial games, that is.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: I’ve been a Raiders fan since 1972 (I was 7 at the time, so I could legitimately claim I didn’t know any better), and, yes, the “thug” element of that fan base is alive and well.

I would argue that the fans of various European soccer leagues are even worse, especially in terms of overt racism, jingoism and nationalism (watch how black soccer players are treated by fans as an example).

Hockey also has its thug elements, but they’re mainly found on the ice. What’s the old joke? “I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out”.

I didn’t mean to get off on a jag, but I wanted to address the point that the US needs more soccer and hockey. Why? We don’t have enough fighting and violence already?

Football (the American version) is a sport only played by the true warrior gods among us. Rugby is very cool, but it comes from England and that’s where Hugh Grant comes from, so there you go.

If I were to be completely serious, I would argue that Australian Rules Football is the most seriously psychotic ever invented. Well, next to the Roman Gladiatorial games, that is.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: I’ve been a Raiders fan since 1972 (I was 7 at the time, so I could legitimately claim I didn’t know any better), and, yes, the “thug” element of that fan base is alive and well.

I would argue that the fans of various European soccer leagues are even worse, especially in terms of overt racism, jingoism and nationalism (watch how black soccer players are treated by fans as an example).

Hockey also has its thug elements, but they’re mainly found on the ice. What’s the old joke? “I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out”.

I didn’t mean to get off on a jag, but I wanted to address the point that the US needs more soccer and hockey. Why? We don’t have enough fighting and violence already?

Football (the American version) is a sport only played by the true warrior gods among us. Rugby is very cool, but it comes from England and that’s where Hugh Grant comes from, so there you go.

If I were to be completely serious, I would argue that Australian Rules Football is the most seriously psychotic ever invented. Well, next to the Roman Gladiatorial games, that is.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: I’ve been a Raiders fan since 1972 (I was 7 at the time, so I could legitimately claim I didn’t know any better), and, yes, the “thug” element of that fan base is alive and well.

I would argue that the fans of various European soccer leagues are even worse, especially in terms of overt racism, jingoism and nationalism (watch how black soccer players are treated by fans as an example).

Hockey also has its thug elements, but they’re mainly found on the ice. What’s the old joke? “I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out”.

I didn’t mean to get off on a jag, but I wanted to address the point that the US needs more soccer and hockey. Why? We don’t have enough fighting and violence already?

Football (the American version) is a sport only played by the true warrior gods among us. Rugby is very cool, but it comes from England and that’s where Hugh Grant comes from, so there you go.

If I were to be completely serious, I would argue that Australian Rules Football is the most seriously psychotic ever invented. Well, next to the Roman Gladiatorial games, that is.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

afx: Don’t you think “Team America” was one of the funniest movies ever?

By the way, the Russians aren’t commies anymore. They’re power hungry, grasping plutocrats. Just like us, only with better vodka.

Baseball is NOT America’s Pastime. That’s a filthy lie, fomented by people too weak and afraid to play football.

I was not trying to conflate Obama with the Clinton Administration, I was only trying to make the point that this “Republican Bad” and “Democrat Good” nonsense was exactly that, nonsense. Justme appears to believe that when Bill Clinton bends over the sun shines out his a**. That’s a wee bit too much for me to stomach.

Speaking of vulgar: Have any of you soccer fans ever watched a Manchester United or Arsenal game against a French, German or Spanish opponent? Just curious. Those fans make Raider games look like a garden party.

[Author]

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