[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: Nope. I will prove the point, and I will find the sources to do so.

At that point, you will retract the liar comment, or have the courage to come say it to my face.

Deal?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: Nope. I will prove the point, and I will find the sources to do so.

At that point, you will retract the liar comment, or have the courage to come say it to my face.

Deal?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: Nope. I will prove the point, and I will find the sources to do so.

At that point, you will retract the liar comment, or have the courage to come say it to my face.

Deal?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: Nope. I will prove the point, and I will find the sources to do so.

At that point, you will retract the liar comment, or have the courage to come say it to my face.

Deal?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: It’s Latin, sport, not math. Bastardized Roman Latin, but it works. Google it, and you get both Quad and Quod, as well as Demonstratum and Deomstrandum.

Don’t make the mistake of calling me a liar, or you and I will have a face-to-face discussion. Sitting here in the comfort of my den jousting with you is one thing, calling my character into question is another. You understand me?

You’re fond of Wikipedia, correct? Every SINGLE ONE of the points I made is found there. Look up Operation Linebacker I and II. Better yet, pick up a book. USAF Archives has an excellent set on Operation Rolling Thunder (the USAF campaign over Vietnam) and it includes all tonnages dropped. This is not arcane knowledge, it is readily available and easily found.

USAAC/USAAF dropped approx 1.44MM tons of bombs on Germany during WWII: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Bombing_During_World_War_II#US_bombing_in_Europe

Clinton Administration dropped 1.3MM tons of ordnance on Iraq just during 1999 – 2001 alone: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Clinton_bombing_of_Iraq_far_exceeded_Bushs_in_runup_to_war__Bush_spikes_of_activity_que_0705.html

This does NOT count additional types of weapons deployed, including sea based ordnance.

And, yeah, I strive for your type of sophistication. I don’t, however, like being damned with faint praise, so I’ll avoid it for now.

CORRECTION: USAAC/USAAF dropped 1.4MM tons of ordnance on EUROPE, not just GERMANY. Tonnage includes all European countries, so the tonnage dropped on just Germany is actually lower. Important distinction in terms of this argument.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: It’s Latin, sport, not math. Bastardized Roman Latin, but it works. Google it, and you get both Quad and Quod, as well as Demonstratum and Deomstrandum.

Don’t make the mistake of calling me a liar, or you and I will have a face-to-face discussion. Sitting here in the comfort of my den jousting with you is one thing, calling my character into question is another. You understand me?

You’re fond of Wikipedia, correct? Every SINGLE ONE of the points I made is found there. Look up Operation Linebacker I and II. Better yet, pick up a book. USAF Archives has an excellent set on Operation Rolling Thunder (the USAF campaign over Vietnam) and it includes all tonnages dropped. This is not arcane knowledge, it is readily available and easily found.

USAAC/USAAF dropped approx 1.44MM tons of bombs on Germany during WWII: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Bombing_During_World_War_II#US_bombing_in_Europe

Clinton Administration dropped 1.3MM tons of ordnance on Iraq just during 1999 – 2001 alone: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Clinton_bombing_of_Iraq_far_exceeded_Bushs_in_runup_to_war__Bush_spikes_of_activity_que_0705.html

This does NOT count additional types of weapons deployed, including sea based ordnance.

And, yeah, I strive for your type of sophistication. I don’t, however, like being damned with faint praise, so I’ll avoid it for now.

CORRECTION: USAAC/USAAF dropped 1.4MM tons of ordnance on EUROPE, not just GERMANY. Tonnage includes all European countries, so the tonnage dropped on just Germany is actually lower. Important distinction in terms of this argument.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: It’s Latin, sport, not math. Bastardized Roman Latin, but it works. Google it, and you get both Quad and Quod, as well as Demonstratum and Deomstrandum.

Don’t make the mistake of calling me a liar, or you and I will have a face-to-face discussion. Sitting here in the comfort of my den jousting with you is one thing, calling my character into question is another. You understand me?

You’re fond of Wikipedia, correct? Every SINGLE ONE of the points I made is found there. Look up Operation Linebacker I and II. Better yet, pick up a book. USAF Archives has an excellent set on Operation Rolling Thunder (the USAF campaign over Vietnam) and it includes all tonnages dropped. This is not arcane knowledge, it is readily available and easily found.

USAAC/USAAF dropped approx 1.44MM tons of bombs on Germany during WWII: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Bombing_During_World_War_II#US_bombing_in_Europe

Clinton Administration dropped 1.3MM tons of ordnance on Iraq just during 1999 – 2001 alone: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Clinton_bombing_of_Iraq_far_exceeded_Bushs_in_runup_to_war__Bush_spikes_of_activity_que_0705.html

This does NOT count additional types of weapons deployed, including sea based ordnance.

And, yeah, I strive for your type of sophistication. I don’t, however, like being damned with faint praise, so I’ll avoid it for now.

CORRECTION: USAAC/USAAF dropped 1.4MM tons of ordnance on EUROPE, not just GERMANY. Tonnage includes all European countries, so the tonnage dropped on just Germany is actually lower. Important distinction in terms of this argument.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: It’s Latin, sport, not math. Bastardized Roman Latin, but it works. Google it, and you get both Quad and Quod, as well as Demonstratum and Deomstrandum.

Don’t make the mistake of calling me a liar, or you and I will have a face-to-face discussion. Sitting here in the comfort of my den jousting with you is one thing, calling my character into question is another. You understand me?

You’re fond of Wikipedia, correct? Every SINGLE ONE of the points I made is found there. Look up Operation Linebacker I and II. Better yet, pick up a book. USAF Archives has an excellent set on Operation Rolling Thunder (the USAF campaign over Vietnam) and it includes all tonnages dropped. This is not arcane knowledge, it is readily available and easily found.

USAAC/USAAF dropped approx 1.44MM tons of bombs on Germany during WWII: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Bombing_During_World_War_II#US_bombing_in_Europe

Clinton Administration dropped 1.3MM tons of ordnance on Iraq just during 1999 – 2001 alone: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Clinton_bombing_of_Iraq_far_exceeded_Bushs_in_runup_to_war__Bush_spikes_of_activity_que_0705.html

This does NOT count additional types of weapons deployed, including sea based ordnance.

And, yeah, I strive for your type of sophistication. I don’t, however, like being damned with faint praise, so I’ll avoid it for now.

CORRECTION: USAAC/USAAF dropped 1.4MM tons of ordnance on EUROPE, not just GERMANY. Tonnage includes all European countries, so the tonnage dropped on just Germany is actually lower. Important distinction in terms of this argument.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: It’s Latin, sport, not math. Bastardized Roman Latin, but it works. Google it, and you get both Quad and Quod, as well as Demonstratum and Deomstrandum.

Don’t make the mistake of calling me a liar, or you and I will have a face-to-face discussion. Sitting here in the comfort of my den jousting with you is one thing, calling my character into question is another. You understand me?

You’re fond of Wikipedia, correct? Every SINGLE ONE of the points I made is found there. Look up Operation Linebacker I and II. Better yet, pick up a book. USAF Archives has an excellent set on Operation Rolling Thunder (the USAF campaign over Vietnam) and it includes all tonnages dropped. This is not arcane knowledge, it is readily available and easily found.

USAAC/USAAF dropped approx 1.44MM tons of bombs on Germany during WWII: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Bombing_During_World_War_II#US_bombing_in_Europe

Clinton Administration dropped 1.3MM tons of ordnance on Iraq just during 1999 – 2001 alone: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Clinton_bombing_of_Iraq_far_exceeded_Bushs_in_runup_to_war__Bush_spikes_of_activity_que_0705.html

This does NOT count additional types of weapons deployed, including sea based ordnance.

And, yeah, I strive for your type of sophistication. I don’t, however, like being damned with faint praise, so I’ll avoid it for now.

CORRECTION: USAAC/USAAF dropped 1.4MM tons of ordnance on EUROPE, not just GERMANY. Tonnage includes all European countries, so the tonnage dropped on just Germany is actually lower. Important distinction in terms of this argument.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: You’re accusing me of cherry picking sources? Uh, okay. So, using your own logic, picking Nixon while excluding LBJ doesn’t count?

I didn’t argue that Obama was worse than McCain because of his pastor; I argued that Obama’s dissembling on the Reverend Wright issue was problematic. McCain has his own baggage, and I ain’t voting for either of them.

As to nit-picking: Clinton dropped more bombs on Iraq than the US expended on Germany during WWII. Fact, and a verifiable one at that. The raw tonnage expended over Iraq exceeded that of WWII and USAF, USN and USMC sources can all be used to confirm this. These are not hand picked sources, rather these are US Department of Defense statistics.

Clinton’s enforcement of the sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqis. Might not be a fact, but this is the number used by IRC, UNCHR, and Amnesty International and widely so. Clinton choose the level to which he was going to enforce the UN sanctions. He was not ordered to enforce those sanctions to the degree he did by the UN, he choose to and unilaterally so.

Clinton’s aggressive posture on Iraq and his support of regime change there (Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998) are not only well known, they are well documented and through sources other than Wikipedia and “Counterpunch”. While the sanctions were UN, the enforcement of same were Clinton’s. Period. US forces in the areas surrounding Iraq and in the neighboring oceans and seas were under the command of the Commander-In-Chief, President Bill Clinton. They worked with other UN forces, such as the British, but the command and control aspects, including intel gathering, targeting and bombing, were all American and the orders to bomb were Clinton’s. Again, period.

You speak of contortions, but you freely twist the logic into this sophistic nonsense. Very Clintonian in it’s own way, now I see why you like him so much.

You had to look up Quad Erat Demonstratum, didn’t you? Admit it.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: You’re accusing me of cherry picking sources? Uh, okay. So, using your own logic, picking Nixon while excluding LBJ doesn’t count?

I didn’t argue that Obama was worse than McCain because of his pastor; I argued that Obama’s dissembling on the Reverend Wright issue was problematic. McCain has his own baggage, and I ain’t voting for either of them.

As to nit-picking: Clinton dropped more bombs on Iraq than the US expended on Germany during WWII. Fact, and a verifiable one at that. The raw tonnage expended over Iraq exceeded that of WWII and USAF, USN and USMC sources can all be used to confirm this. These are not hand picked sources, rather these are US Department of Defense statistics.

Clinton’s enforcement of the sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqis. Might not be a fact, but this is the number used by IRC, UNCHR, and Amnesty International and widely so. Clinton choose the level to which he was going to enforce the UN sanctions. He was not ordered to enforce those sanctions to the degree he did by the UN, he choose to and unilaterally so.

Clinton’s aggressive posture on Iraq and his support of regime change there (Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998) are not only well known, they are well documented and through sources other than Wikipedia and “Counterpunch”. While the sanctions were UN, the enforcement of same were Clinton’s. Period. US forces in the areas surrounding Iraq and in the neighboring oceans and seas were under the command of the Commander-In-Chief, President Bill Clinton. They worked with other UN forces, such as the British, but the command and control aspects, including intel gathering, targeting and bombing, were all American and the orders to bomb were Clinton’s. Again, period.

You speak of contortions, but you freely twist the logic into this sophistic nonsense. Very Clintonian in it’s own way, now I see why you like him so much.

You had to look up Quad Erat Demonstratum, didn’t you? Admit it.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: You’re accusing me of cherry picking sources? Uh, okay. So, using your own logic, picking Nixon while excluding LBJ doesn’t count?

I didn’t argue that Obama was worse than McCain because of his pastor; I argued that Obama’s dissembling on the Reverend Wright issue was problematic. McCain has his own baggage, and I ain’t voting for either of them.

As to nit-picking: Clinton dropped more bombs on Iraq than the US expended on Germany during WWII. Fact, and a verifiable one at that. The raw tonnage expended over Iraq exceeded that of WWII and USAF, USN and USMC sources can all be used to confirm this. These are not hand picked sources, rather these are US Department of Defense statistics.

Clinton’s enforcement of the sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqis. Might not be a fact, but this is the number used by IRC, UNCHR, and Amnesty International and widely so. Clinton choose the level to which he was going to enforce the UN sanctions. He was not ordered to enforce those sanctions to the degree he did by the UN, he choose to and unilaterally so.

Clinton’s aggressive posture on Iraq and his support of regime change there (Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998) are not only well known, they are well documented and through sources other than Wikipedia and “Counterpunch”. While the sanctions were UN, the enforcement of same were Clinton’s. Period. US forces in the areas surrounding Iraq and in the neighboring oceans and seas were under the command of the Commander-In-Chief, President Bill Clinton. They worked with other UN forces, such as the British, but the command and control aspects, including intel gathering, targeting and bombing, were all American and the orders to bomb were Clinton’s. Again, period.

You speak of contortions, but you freely twist the logic into this sophistic nonsense. Very Clintonian in it’s own way, now I see why you like him so much.

You had to look up Quad Erat Demonstratum, didn’t you? Admit it.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: You’re accusing me of cherry picking sources? Uh, okay. So, using your own logic, picking Nixon while excluding LBJ doesn’t count?

I didn’t argue that Obama was worse than McCain because of his pastor; I argued that Obama’s dissembling on the Reverend Wright issue was problematic. McCain has his own baggage, and I ain’t voting for either of them.

As to nit-picking: Clinton dropped more bombs on Iraq than the US expended on Germany during WWII. Fact, and a verifiable one at that. The raw tonnage expended over Iraq exceeded that of WWII and USAF, USN and USMC sources can all be used to confirm this. These are not hand picked sources, rather these are US Department of Defense statistics.

Clinton’s enforcement of the sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqis. Might not be a fact, but this is the number used by IRC, UNCHR, and Amnesty International and widely so. Clinton choose the level to which he was going to enforce the UN sanctions. He was not ordered to enforce those sanctions to the degree he did by the UN, he choose to and unilaterally so.

Clinton’s aggressive posture on Iraq and his support of regime change there (Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998) are not only well known, they are well documented and through sources other than Wikipedia and “Counterpunch”. While the sanctions were UN, the enforcement of same were Clinton’s. Period. US forces in the areas surrounding Iraq and in the neighboring oceans and seas were under the command of the Commander-In-Chief, President Bill Clinton. They worked with other UN forces, such as the British, but the command and control aspects, including intel gathering, targeting and bombing, were all American and the orders to bomb were Clinton’s. Again, period.

You speak of contortions, but you freely twist the logic into this sophistic nonsense. Very Clintonian in it’s own way, now I see why you like him so much.

You had to look up Quad Erat Demonstratum, didn’t you? Admit it.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

justme: You’re accusing me of cherry picking sources? Uh, okay. So, using your own logic, picking Nixon while excluding LBJ doesn’t count?

I didn’t argue that Obama was worse than McCain because of his pastor; I argued that Obama’s dissembling on the Reverend Wright issue was problematic. McCain has his own baggage, and I ain’t voting for either of them.

As to nit-picking: Clinton dropped more bombs on Iraq than the US expended on Germany during WWII. Fact, and a verifiable one at that. The raw tonnage expended over Iraq exceeded that of WWII and USAF, USN and USMC sources can all be used to confirm this. These are not hand picked sources, rather these are US Department of Defense statistics.

Clinton’s enforcement of the sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqis. Might not be a fact, but this is the number used by IRC, UNCHR, and Amnesty International and widely so. Clinton choose the level to which he was going to enforce the UN sanctions. He was not ordered to enforce those sanctions to the degree he did by the UN, he choose to and unilaterally so.

Clinton’s aggressive posture on Iraq and his support of regime change there (Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998) are not only well known, they are well documented and through sources other than Wikipedia and “Counterpunch”. While the sanctions were UN, the enforcement of same were Clinton’s. Period. US forces in the areas surrounding Iraq and in the neighboring oceans and seas were under the command of the Commander-In-Chief, President Bill Clinton. They worked with other UN forces, such as the British, but the command and control aspects, including intel gathering, targeting and bombing, were all American and the orders to bomb were Clinton’s. Again, period.

You speak of contortions, but you freely twist the logic into this sophistic nonsense. Very Clintonian in it’s own way, now I see why you like him so much.

You had to look up Quad Erat Demonstratum, didn’t you? Admit it.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Surveyor: Or read.

[Author]

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