[Allan from Fallbrook]

peterb: Yup. Good ole 12ga does the trick. I carried a shotgun in the Army and swear by it for close in stuff.

I have a Remington 870 Police with a mag extension and use a mix of 3″ Magnum slug and 00 Buck loads. If you can’t stop someone with 9 shots of 12ga, you deserve to be dead.

Veritas: That thing (the Desert Eagle) is a complete boat anchor. Fun to shoot and completely worthless in the real world. I’ve fired it in .44 Mag and .50 AE and it makes a big boom, but you can hit the broad side of a barn with it. Any handgun that weighs nearly as much as a rifle is kinda pointless to begin with.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

peterb: Yup. Good ole 12ga does the trick. I carried a shotgun in the Army and swear by it for close in stuff.

I have a Remington 870 Police with a mag extension and use a mix of 3″ Magnum slug and 00 Buck loads. If you can’t stop someone with 9 shots of 12ga, you deserve to be dead.

Veritas: That thing (the Desert Eagle) is a complete boat anchor. Fun to shoot and completely worthless in the real world. I’ve fired it in .44 Mag and .50 AE and it makes a big boom, but you can hit the broad side of a barn with it. Any handgun that weighs nearly as much as a rifle is kinda pointless to begin with.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

peterb: Yup. Good ole 12ga does the trick. I carried a shotgun in the Army and swear by it for close in stuff.

I have a Remington 870 Police with a mag extension and use a mix of 3″ Magnum slug and 00 Buck loads. If you can’t stop someone with 9 shots of 12ga, you deserve to be dead.

Veritas: That thing (the Desert Eagle) is a complete boat anchor. Fun to shoot and completely worthless in the real world. I’ve fired it in .44 Mag and .50 AE and it makes a big boom, but you can hit the broad side of a barn with it. Any handgun that weighs nearly as much as a rifle is kinda pointless to begin with.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

pablo: Always shoot your combat load, even on the range. A common mistake that inexperienced shooters make is to fire a “target” load on the range and then load the weapon with a hotter load for protection. Big no-no.

Many .357 shooters use .38 Special on the range and then load .357 Mag loads for protection. In a combat situation they are then unused to the recoil and muzzle flash of the heavier Magnum load and therefore are ineffective at the most crucial time.

Definitely don’t ask at the range, unless your rangemaster is an experienced combat trained shooter.

Federal makes an excellent load for the .357, the 158gr Hydra-Shok. Takes a little getting used to, especially with the recoil and muzzle flash, but a real stopper, especially coming out of a 6″ tube like your K frame Smith.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

pablo: Always shoot your combat load, even on the range. A common mistake that inexperienced shooters make is to fire a “target” load on the range and then load the weapon with a hotter load for protection. Big no-no.

Many .357 shooters use .38 Special on the range and then load .357 Mag loads for protection. In a combat situation they are then unused to the recoil and muzzle flash of the heavier Magnum load and therefore are ineffective at the most crucial time.

Definitely don’t ask at the range, unless your rangemaster is an experienced combat trained shooter.

Federal makes an excellent load for the .357, the 158gr Hydra-Shok. Takes a little getting used to, especially with the recoil and muzzle flash, but a real stopper, especially coming out of a 6″ tube like your K frame Smith.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

pablo: Always shoot your combat load, even on the range. A common mistake that inexperienced shooters make is to fire a “target” load on the range and then load the weapon with a hotter load for protection. Big no-no.

Many .357 shooters use .38 Special on the range and then load .357 Mag loads for protection. In a combat situation they are then unused to the recoil and muzzle flash of the heavier Magnum load and therefore are ineffective at the most crucial time.

Definitely don’t ask at the range, unless your rangemaster is an experienced combat trained shooter.

Federal makes an excellent load for the .357, the 158gr Hydra-Shok. Takes a little getting used to, especially with the recoil and muzzle flash, but a real stopper, especially coming out of a 6″ tube like your K frame Smith.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

pablo: Always shoot your combat load, even on the range. A common mistake that inexperienced shooters make is to fire a “target” load on the range and then load the weapon with a hotter load for protection. Big no-no.

Many .357 shooters use .38 Special on the range and then load .357 Mag loads for protection. In a combat situation they are then unused to the recoil and muzzle flash of the heavier Magnum load and therefore are ineffective at the most crucial time.

Definitely don’t ask at the range, unless your rangemaster is an experienced combat trained shooter.

Federal makes an excellent load for the .357, the 158gr Hydra-Shok. Takes a little getting used to, especially with the recoil and muzzle flash, but a real stopper, especially coming out of a 6″ tube like your K frame Smith.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

pablo: Always shoot your combat load, even on the range. A common mistake that inexperienced shooters make is to fire a “target” load on the range and then load the weapon with a hotter load for protection. Big no-no.

Many .357 shooters use .38 Special on the range and then load .357 Mag loads for protection. In a combat situation they are then unused to the recoil and muzzle flash of the heavier Magnum load and therefore are ineffective at the most crucial time.

Definitely don’t ask at the range, unless your rangemaster is an experienced combat trained shooter.

Federal makes an excellent load for the .357, the 158gr Hydra-Shok. Takes a little getting used to, especially with the recoil and muzzle flash, but a real stopper, especially coming out of a 6″ tube like your K frame Smith.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

davelj/CA_renter: One of the most important aspects of this crisis, and one that certainly merits discussion on this thread, is the role of “off book” investments and derivatives.

Dave, I know your background is banking and thus the thrust of your posts. Mine is accounting and that informs mine. You astutely pointed out in another thread that the liquidity crisis had virtually nothing to do with actual liquidity, and everything to do with crappy assets.

Until such time as there is an acknowledgment as to the true nature of the liabilities riding on balance sheets throughout the world, we won’t have an actual picture as to how bad the potential threat (in terms of losses) truly is.

The notional value of potential derivatives (in terms of trading value) is somewhere north of $500 trillion. Granted, a huge amount of that is offset by swaps and other risk limiting vehicles, but AIG’s exposure to counterparty capital calls and reserve calls illustrates that virtually none of the commercial and investment banks, insurance companies, pension funds, hedgies, etc that dove into this market and leveraged themselves to the hilt to do so, has the capital base necessary to survive a margin call by trading partners or counterparties.

Full transparency is required as is accountability (in the form of proper due diligence, not this 11th hour shotgun wedding kind of crap that we saw with Bear Stearns/JPM). Right now, the balance sheets are opaque and therefore so is the risk. While systemic collapse is certainly worth averting, we’re just playing a shell game because we have no idea how many of those SIVs and off book investments are just waiting to explode.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

davelj/CA_renter: One of the most important aspects of this crisis, and one that certainly merits discussion on this thread, is the role of “off book” investments and derivatives.

Dave, I know your background is banking and thus the thrust of your posts. Mine is accounting and that informs mine. You astutely pointed out in another thread that the liquidity crisis had virtually nothing to do with actual liquidity, and everything to do with crappy assets.

Until such time as there is an acknowledgment as to the true nature of the liabilities riding on balance sheets throughout the world, we won’t have an actual picture as to how bad the potential threat (in terms of losses) truly is.

The notional value of potential derivatives (in terms of trading value) is somewhere north of $500 trillion. Granted, a huge amount of that is offset by swaps and other risk limiting vehicles, but AIG’s exposure to counterparty capital calls and reserve calls illustrates that virtually none of the commercial and investment banks, insurance companies, pension funds, hedgies, etc that dove into this market and leveraged themselves to the hilt to do so, has the capital base necessary to survive a margin call by trading partners or counterparties.

Full transparency is required as is accountability (in the form of proper due diligence, not this 11th hour shotgun wedding kind of crap that we saw with Bear Stearns/JPM). Right now, the balance sheets are opaque and therefore so is the risk. While systemic collapse is certainly worth averting, we’re just playing a shell game because we have no idea how many of those SIVs and off book investments are just waiting to explode.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

davelj/CA_renter: One of the most important aspects of this crisis, and one that certainly merits discussion on this thread, is the role of “off book” investments and derivatives.

Dave, I know your background is banking and thus the thrust of your posts. Mine is accounting and that informs mine. You astutely pointed out in another thread that the liquidity crisis had virtually nothing to do with actual liquidity, and everything to do with crappy assets.

Until such time as there is an acknowledgment as to the true nature of the liabilities riding on balance sheets throughout the world, we won’t have an actual picture as to how bad the potential threat (in terms of losses) truly is.

The notional value of potential derivatives (in terms of trading value) is somewhere north of $500 trillion. Granted, a huge amount of that is offset by swaps and other risk limiting vehicles, but AIG’s exposure to counterparty capital calls and reserve calls illustrates that virtually none of the commercial and investment banks, insurance companies, pension funds, hedgies, etc that dove into this market and leveraged themselves to the hilt to do so, has the capital base necessary to survive a margin call by trading partners or counterparties.

Full transparency is required as is accountability (in the form of proper due diligence, not this 11th hour shotgun wedding kind of crap that we saw with Bear Stearns/JPM). Right now, the balance sheets are opaque and therefore so is the risk. While systemic collapse is certainly worth averting, we’re just playing a shell game because we have no idea how many of those SIVs and off book investments are just waiting to explode.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

davelj/CA_renter: One of the most important aspects of this crisis, and one that certainly merits discussion on this thread, is the role of “off book” investments and derivatives.

Dave, I know your background is banking and thus the thrust of your posts. Mine is accounting and that informs mine. You astutely pointed out in another thread that the liquidity crisis had virtually nothing to do with actual liquidity, and everything to do with crappy assets.

Until such time as there is an acknowledgment as to the true nature of the liabilities riding on balance sheets throughout the world, we won’t have an actual picture as to how bad the potential threat (in terms of losses) truly is.

The notional value of potential derivatives (in terms of trading value) is somewhere north of $500 trillion. Granted, a huge amount of that is offset by swaps and other risk limiting vehicles, but AIG’s exposure to counterparty capital calls and reserve calls illustrates that virtually none of the commercial and investment banks, insurance companies, pension funds, hedgies, etc that dove into this market and leveraged themselves to the hilt to do so, has the capital base necessary to survive a margin call by trading partners or counterparties.

Full transparency is required as is accountability (in the form of proper due diligence, not this 11th hour shotgun wedding kind of crap that we saw with Bear Stearns/JPM). Right now, the balance sheets are opaque and therefore so is the risk. While systemic collapse is certainly worth averting, we’re just playing a shell game because we have no idea how many of those SIVs and off book investments are just waiting to explode.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

davelj/CA_renter: One of the most important aspects of this crisis, and one that certainly merits discussion on this thread, is the role of “off book” investments and derivatives.

Dave, I know your background is banking and thus the thrust of your posts. Mine is accounting and that informs mine. You astutely pointed out in another thread that the liquidity crisis had virtually nothing to do with actual liquidity, and everything to do with crappy assets.

Until such time as there is an acknowledgment as to the true nature of the liabilities riding on balance sheets throughout the world, we won’t have an actual picture as to how bad the potential threat (in terms of losses) truly is.

The notional value of potential derivatives (in terms of trading value) is somewhere north of $500 trillion. Granted, a huge amount of that is offset by swaps and other risk limiting vehicles, but AIG’s exposure to counterparty capital calls and reserve calls illustrates that virtually none of the commercial and investment banks, insurance companies, pension funds, hedgies, etc that dove into this market and leveraged themselves to the hilt to do so, has the capital base necessary to survive a margin call by trading partners or counterparties.

Full transparency is required as is accountability (in the form of proper due diligence, not this 11th hour shotgun wedding kind of crap that we saw with Bear Stearns/JPM). Right now, the balance sheets are opaque and therefore so is the risk. While systemic collapse is certainly worth averting, we’re just playing a shell game because we have no idea how many of those SIVs and off book investments are just waiting to explode.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

seattle: Please tell me you’re kidding. This guy is a complete wingnut.

Say for the sake of argument he is right about the mid-September date. That doesn’t make him right about everything else. The “Amero”? Death camps? I still have friends in the military, including SOF, and I haven’t heard word one about any of this. If something like this was going on, it would leak. Trust me. No one in the military or intel community knows how to keep their mouth shut. Especially with media outlets willing to pay millions for this kind of scoop.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

seattle: Please tell me you’re kidding. This guy is a complete wingnut.

Say for the sake of argument he is right about the mid-September date. That doesn’t make him right about everything else. The “Amero”? Death camps? I still have friends in the military, including SOF, and I haven’t heard word one about any of this. If something like this was going on, it would leak. Trust me. No one in the military or intel community knows how to keep their mouth shut. Especially with media outlets willing to pay millions for this kind of scoop.

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