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November 16, 2008 at 6:40 PM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #306042November 16, 2008 at 8:14 AM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305400
Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantLarry: I don’t condone what we’ve done. And note I say “we” instead of the US Government, because we’re all culpable here.
I don’t support torture and I never have. I’ve seen it used in the field and it is sickening. I got into a fierce debate with Casca over the use of torture and I think the willingness of the US to engage in the practice, as well as using tools like extraordinary rendition ultimately cheapens us as both a country and an ideal (“land of the free and the home of the brave”).
I think Gitmo is a disgrace and should be closed, and I’ve argued for that.
But I’ve also argued that sometimes the choice isn’t between good and bad, but bad and worse. You reference the Shah and Batista. Is Iran better under it’s present system of government? Is Cuba? Those are sincere questions, by the way. I’d like to hear your take. I don’t think they are, but I’m using them to make the “bad versus worse” point. It’s all a matter of perspective, I suppose, but, objectively speaking, a case can be made for Batista versus Castro and the Shah versus Khomeini.
November 16, 2008 at 8:14 AM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305768ParticipantLarry: I don’t condone what we’ve done. And note I say “we” instead of the US Government, because we’re all culpable here.
I don’t support torture and I never have. I’ve seen it used in the field and it is sickening. I got into a fierce debate with Casca over the use of torture and I think the willingness of the US to engage in the practice, as well as using tools like extraordinary rendition ultimately cheapens us as both a country and an ideal (“land of the free and the home of the brave”).
I think Gitmo is a disgrace and should be closed, and I’ve argued for that.
But I’ve also argued that sometimes the choice isn’t between good and bad, but bad and worse. You reference the Shah and Batista. Is Iran better under it’s present system of government? Is Cuba? Those are sincere questions, by the way. I’d like to hear your take. I don’t think they are, but I’m using them to make the “bad versus worse” point. It’s all a matter of perspective, I suppose, but, objectively speaking, a case can be made for Batista versus Castro and the Shah versus Khomeini.
November 16, 2008 at 8:14 AM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305780ParticipantLarry: I don’t condone what we’ve done. And note I say “we” instead of the US Government, because we’re all culpable here.
I don’t support torture and I never have. I’ve seen it used in the field and it is sickening. I got into a fierce debate with Casca over the use of torture and I think the willingness of the US to engage in the practice, as well as using tools like extraordinary rendition ultimately cheapens us as both a country and an ideal (“land of the free and the home of the brave”).
I think Gitmo is a disgrace and should be closed, and I’ve argued for that.
But I’ve also argued that sometimes the choice isn’t between good and bad, but bad and worse. You reference the Shah and Batista. Is Iran better under it’s present system of government? Is Cuba? Those are sincere questions, by the way. I’d like to hear your take. I don’t think they are, but I’m using them to make the “bad versus worse” point. It’s all a matter of perspective, I suppose, but, objectively speaking, a case can be made for Batista versus Castro and the Shah versus Khomeini.
November 16, 2008 at 8:14 AM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305797ParticipantLarry: I don’t condone what we’ve done. And note I say “we” instead of the US Government, because we’re all culpable here.
I don’t support torture and I never have. I’ve seen it used in the field and it is sickening. I got into a fierce debate with Casca over the use of torture and I think the willingness of the US to engage in the practice, as well as using tools like extraordinary rendition ultimately cheapens us as both a country and an ideal (“land of the free and the home of the brave”).
I think Gitmo is a disgrace and should be closed, and I’ve argued for that.
But I’ve also argued that sometimes the choice isn’t between good and bad, but bad and worse. You reference the Shah and Batista. Is Iran better under it’s present system of government? Is Cuba? Those are sincere questions, by the way. I’d like to hear your take. I don’t think they are, but I’m using them to make the “bad versus worse” point. It’s all a matter of perspective, I suppose, but, objectively speaking, a case can be made for Batista versus Castro and the Shah versus Khomeini.
November 16, 2008 at 8:14 AM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305858ParticipantLarry: I don’t condone what we’ve done. And note I say “we” instead of the US Government, because we’re all culpable here.
I don’t support torture and I never have. I’ve seen it used in the field and it is sickening. I got into a fierce debate with Casca over the use of torture and I think the willingness of the US to engage in the practice, as well as using tools like extraordinary rendition ultimately cheapens us as both a country and an ideal (“land of the free and the home of the brave”).
I think Gitmo is a disgrace and should be closed, and I’ve argued for that.
But I’ve also argued that sometimes the choice isn’t between good and bad, but bad and worse. You reference the Shah and Batista. Is Iran better under it’s present system of government? Is Cuba? Those are sincere questions, by the way. I’d like to hear your take. I don’t think they are, but I’m using them to make the “bad versus worse” point. It’s all a matter of perspective, I suppose, but, objectively speaking, a case can be made for Batista versus Castro and the Shah versus Khomeini.
November 16, 2008 at 8:08 AM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305396ParticipantRus: Nope. You’re absolutely right. I’m as nationalistic as they come. And, yeah, it stands in direct contradiction to the other side of me, which is horrified by much of what I see now in terms of the erosion of our civil rights and liberties, places like Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, extraordinary rendtion, the Patriot Act and FISA.
I loathe communism and have buried too many of my friends to ever accept it’s legitimacy. As to Cuba: I spent three years in the field fighting Cubans, as well as insurgents and I do have a vastly different view as a result. Their influence was not benign and it is inarguable point that neither of us had a reason to be there, but logic and reason don’t have a place in war.
I don’t trust the Russians or the Chinese and for good reason, as any reading of history will show. I also don’t trust them because my dad fought the Chinese during the Korean War and my grandfather fought the Russians during WWII. Again, not supported by logic or reason, but by emotion, and I’ll freely admit that.
As to “special providence”: No, I don’t believe that God has blessed the USA anymore than any other country, but I’ll say “God bless America” and mean it, more in the sense that I hope He does and we gain some wisdom as a result. As a country, we’ve been brutal, corrupt, venal and unthinking. We’ve also been good, decent and kind. I recognize we’re both and that countries are just like people and just as prone to thoughtfulness and error and just as capable of amazing transformations.
As a Catholic, I despise Islam, but I recognize that my religion has been just as repressive and as a Jesuit educated Catholic, recognize my sect’s “special” place in that repression. As an American, I despise fundamentalist Islam for what it wants and the wanton destruction it will use to accomplish these ends. Please note the use of “fundamentalist”, as I don’t think Islam is any better or worse than Christianity, Judaism or Buddhism when taken as a whole.
Ask yourself this, Rus: As a person, are you any different? Yeah, you might be a lot less bellicose than I am, but are you any less given to emotion on those subjects that really press your buttons? I’m sure you run hot on certain issues, it’s just a matter of what those issues are.
November 16, 2008 at 8:08 AM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305763ParticipantRus: Nope. You’re absolutely right. I’m as nationalistic as they come. And, yeah, it stands in direct contradiction to the other side of me, which is horrified by much of what I see now in terms of the erosion of our civil rights and liberties, places like Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, extraordinary rendtion, the Patriot Act and FISA.
I loathe communism and have buried too many of my friends to ever accept it’s legitimacy. As to Cuba: I spent three years in the field fighting Cubans, as well as insurgents and I do have a vastly different view as a result. Their influence was not benign and it is inarguable point that neither of us had a reason to be there, but logic and reason don’t have a place in war.
I don’t trust the Russians or the Chinese and for good reason, as any reading of history will show. I also don’t trust them because my dad fought the Chinese during the Korean War and my grandfather fought the Russians during WWII. Again, not supported by logic or reason, but by emotion, and I’ll freely admit that.
As to “special providence”: No, I don’t believe that God has blessed the USA anymore than any other country, but I’ll say “God bless America” and mean it, more in the sense that I hope He does and we gain some wisdom as a result. As a country, we’ve been brutal, corrupt, venal and unthinking. We’ve also been good, decent and kind. I recognize we’re both and that countries are just like people and just as prone to thoughtfulness and error and just as capable of amazing transformations.
As a Catholic, I despise Islam, but I recognize that my religion has been just as repressive and as a Jesuit educated Catholic, recognize my sect’s “special” place in that repression. As an American, I despise fundamentalist Islam for what it wants and the wanton destruction it will use to accomplish these ends. Please note the use of “fundamentalist”, as I don’t think Islam is any better or worse than Christianity, Judaism or Buddhism when taken as a whole.
Ask yourself this, Rus: As a person, are you any different? Yeah, you might be a lot less bellicose than I am, but are you any less given to emotion on those subjects that really press your buttons? I’m sure you run hot on certain issues, it’s just a matter of what those issues are.
November 16, 2008 at 8:08 AM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305775ParticipantRus: Nope. You’re absolutely right. I’m as nationalistic as they come. And, yeah, it stands in direct contradiction to the other side of me, which is horrified by much of what I see now in terms of the erosion of our civil rights and liberties, places like Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, extraordinary rendtion, the Patriot Act and FISA.
I loathe communism and have buried too many of my friends to ever accept it’s legitimacy. As to Cuba: I spent three years in the field fighting Cubans, as well as insurgents and I do have a vastly different view as a result. Their influence was not benign and it is inarguable point that neither of us had a reason to be there, but logic and reason don’t have a place in war.
I don’t trust the Russians or the Chinese and for good reason, as any reading of history will show. I also don’t trust them because my dad fought the Chinese during the Korean War and my grandfather fought the Russians during WWII. Again, not supported by logic or reason, but by emotion, and I’ll freely admit that.
As to “special providence”: No, I don’t believe that God has blessed the USA anymore than any other country, but I’ll say “God bless America” and mean it, more in the sense that I hope He does and we gain some wisdom as a result. As a country, we’ve been brutal, corrupt, venal and unthinking. We’ve also been good, decent and kind. I recognize we’re both and that countries are just like people and just as prone to thoughtfulness and error and just as capable of amazing transformations.
As a Catholic, I despise Islam, but I recognize that my religion has been just as repressive and as a Jesuit educated Catholic, recognize my sect’s “special” place in that repression. As an American, I despise fundamentalist Islam for what it wants and the wanton destruction it will use to accomplish these ends. Please note the use of “fundamentalist”, as I don’t think Islam is any better or worse than Christianity, Judaism or Buddhism when taken as a whole.
Ask yourself this, Rus: As a person, are you any different? Yeah, you might be a lot less bellicose than I am, but are you any less given to emotion on those subjects that really press your buttons? I’m sure you run hot on certain issues, it’s just a matter of what those issues are.
November 16, 2008 at 8:08 AM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305792ParticipantRus: Nope. You’re absolutely right. I’m as nationalistic as they come. And, yeah, it stands in direct contradiction to the other side of me, which is horrified by much of what I see now in terms of the erosion of our civil rights and liberties, places like Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, extraordinary rendtion, the Patriot Act and FISA.
I loathe communism and have buried too many of my friends to ever accept it’s legitimacy. As to Cuba: I spent three years in the field fighting Cubans, as well as insurgents and I do have a vastly different view as a result. Their influence was not benign and it is inarguable point that neither of us had a reason to be there, but logic and reason don’t have a place in war.
I don’t trust the Russians or the Chinese and for good reason, as any reading of history will show. I also don’t trust them because my dad fought the Chinese during the Korean War and my grandfather fought the Russians during WWII. Again, not supported by logic or reason, but by emotion, and I’ll freely admit that.
As to “special providence”: No, I don’t believe that God has blessed the USA anymore than any other country, but I’ll say “God bless America” and mean it, more in the sense that I hope He does and we gain some wisdom as a result. As a country, we’ve been brutal, corrupt, venal and unthinking. We’ve also been good, decent and kind. I recognize we’re both and that countries are just like people and just as prone to thoughtfulness and error and just as capable of amazing transformations.
As a Catholic, I despise Islam, but I recognize that my religion has been just as repressive and as a Jesuit educated Catholic, recognize my sect’s “special” place in that repression. As an American, I despise fundamentalist Islam for what it wants and the wanton destruction it will use to accomplish these ends. Please note the use of “fundamentalist”, as I don’t think Islam is any better or worse than Christianity, Judaism or Buddhism when taken as a whole.
Ask yourself this, Rus: As a person, are you any different? Yeah, you might be a lot less bellicose than I am, but are you any less given to emotion on those subjects that really press your buttons? I’m sure you run hot on certain issues, it’s just a matter of what those issues are.
November 16, 2008 at 8:08 AM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305853ParticipantRus: Nope. You’re absolutely right. I’m as nationalistic as they come. And, yeah, it stands in direct contradiction to the other side of me, which is horrified by much of what I see now in terms of the erosion of our civil rights and liberties, places like Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, extraordinary rendtion, the Patriot Act and FISA.
I loathe communism and have buried too many of my friends to ever accept it’s legitimacy. As to Cuba: I spent three years in the field fighting Cubans, as well as insurgents and I do have a vastly different view as a result. Their influence was not benign and it is inarguable point that neither of us had a reason to be there, but logic and reason don’t have a place in war.
I don’t trust the Russians or the Chinese and for good reason, as any reading of history will show. I also don’t trust them because my dad fought the Chinese during the Korean War and my grandfather fought the Russians during WWII. Again, not supported by logic or reason, but by emotion, and I’ll freely admit that.
As to “special providence”: No, I don’t believe that God has blessed the USA anymore than any other country, but I’ll say “God bless America” and mean it, more in the sense that I hope He does and we gain some wisdom as a result. As a country, we’ve been brutal, corrupt, venal and unthinking. We’ve also been good, decent and kind. I recognize we’re both and that countries are just like people and just as prone to thoughtfulness and error and just as capable of amazing transformations.
As a Catholic, I despise Islam, but I recognize that my religion has been just as repressive and as a Jesuit educated Catholic, recognize my sect’s “special” place in that repression. As an American, I despise fundamentalist Islam for what it wants and the wanton destruction it will use to accomplish these ends. Please note the use of “fundamentalist”, as I don’t think Islam is any better or worse than Christianity, Judaism or Buddhism when taken as a whole.
Ask yourself this, Rus: As a person, are you any different? Yeah, you might be a lot less bellicose than I am, but are you any less given to emotion on those subjects that really press your buttons? I’m sure you run hot on certain issues, it’s just a matter of what those issues are.
November 15, 2008 at 8:21 PM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305290ParticipantLarry: Didja read my paragraph in it’s entirety? Clearly not. “Yes, we’ve supported worse in our time”.
Read it again.
Plainly ignorant? Not so much.
November 15, 2008 at 8:21 PM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305658ParticipantLarry: Didja read my paragraph in it’s entirety? Clearly not. “Yes, we’ve supported worse in our time”.
Read it again.
Plainly ignorant? Not so much.
November 15, 2008 at 8:21 PM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305670ParticipantLarry: Didja read my paragraph in it’s entirety? Clearly not. “Yes, we’ve supported worse in our time”.
Read it again.
Plainly ignorant? Not so much.
November 15, 2008 at 8:21 PM in reply to: Have you ever been employed by a poor person or a liberal? #305687ParticipantLarry: Didja read my paragraph in it’s entirety? Clearly not. “Yes, we’ve supported worse in our time”.
Read it again.
Plainly ignorant? Not so much.
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