Why do Majority of Jews vote Democratic?

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]
being empathetic brings benefits regardless of whether you receive empathy in return.[/quote]

Of course. But empathy is limited, no? As a limited resource, maybe we should withhold it and direct to where we get highest ROI.

[njtosd]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=scaredyclassic]
being empathetic brings benefits regardless of whether you receive empathy in return.[/quote]

Of course. But empathy is limited, no? As a limited resource, maybe we should withhold it and direct to where we get highest ROI.[/quote]

I don’t completely accept the “liberals as empathetic” stereotype. Some are, some aren’t. I think you need to look more at actions more than words. As far as charitable generosity goes (money, blood, volunteering) conservatives are more generous, according to this article in the NYT:

[CA renter]

[quote=njtosd][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=scaredyclassic]
being empathetic brings benefits regardless of whether you receive empathy in return.[/quote]

Of course. But empathy is limited, no? As a limited resource, maybe we should withhold it and direct to where we get highest ROI.[/quote]

I don’t completely accept the “liberals as empathetic” stereotype. Some are, some aren’t. I think you need to look more at actions more than words. As far as charitable generosity goes (money, blood, volunteering) conservatives are more generous, according to this article in the NYT:

From the linked op-ed:

“When liberals see the data on giving, they tend to protest that conservatives look good only because they shower dollars on churches — that a fair amount of that money isn’t helping the poor, but simply constructing lavish spires.

It’s true that religion is the essential reason conservatives give more, and religious liberals are as generous as religious conservatives. Among the stingiest of the stingy are secular conservatives.

According to Google’s figures, if donations to all religious organizations are excluded, liberals give slightly more to charity than conservatives do. But Mr. Brooks says that if measuring by the percentage of income given, conservatives are more generous than liberals even to secular causes.”

—————

I also think that conservatives donate more money/time privately because that’s how they tend to think we should take care of the neediest people in society — private charity. Liberals, OTOH, tend to believe that the government is best at allocating resources to the needy, so they tend to advocate for higher taxes which can be used to fund more services and a stronger, more generous social safety net for those in need.

We should not conflate the desire to “do the right thing” with empathy. People do good works for many reasons — religious, peer pressure, a desire to look good to others/social climbing, etc. And many people can feel empathy, but only for those with whom they can relate (same race, background, SES, religion, family status, etc.).

I think liberals are more willing to give to those whom they might not consider totally “deserving” of aid. Perhaps their definition of “deserving” is broader than how a conservative might define it, too.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=CA renter]

I have yet to meet a European who is envious of our lifestyle. It’s pretty much a given, at least in their minds, that their lifestyle is superior to ours.[/quote]

That’s very interesting.

I don’t think that Europeans want to live us. But leave capitalism and the culture of consumption to run unfettered and eventually everyone in the world will live the same way.

Europeans don’t want to be like us, but they are impressed and fearful of our economic and military power. In many ways, they have no choice to follow our lead.

Capitalism was not invented in America, but our academics (many Jewish, originally from Europe) have perfected it. We run a better economic system.

[njtosd]

[quote=CA renter]
We should not conflate the desire to “do the right thing” with empathy.
[/quote]

CA Renter – people wouldn’t consider it “right” if they didn’t have empathy. As I have mentioned earlier, I am on the fence politically. There are conservatives who are like you who find self interest in kind acts performed by liberals. What I can’t understand is the belief, on both sides, that the other side is basically wrong (along with a bunch of other bad qualities). It’s similar to the battle of the sexes I’ve seen played out in other threads. We’re all a lot more alike than most are willing to believe – note the statistic in the article that showed that when religious donations were removed, the two parties contributed equally (I don’t think that applied to blood and volunteer hours). I think a lot of people take pride in not being (a) as closed-minded/intolerant/uncaring as the conservatives or (b) as irresponsible/unmotivated/immoral as the liberals. I think a lot of people need to demonize the other side in order to feel superior. I tend to think bad people (and good people) come in all genders, political affiliations, nationalities and yes, Brian, sizes (among other characteristics).

[FlyerInHi]

I don’t mind the stereotypes, I kind of embrace them.

Conservative standards are just too hard to live up to, so I don’t even want to try. I will pick and choose a few to adopt as my own. Maybe I’m shameless, but I really don’t care if anyone thinks of me as “irresponsible/unmotivated/immoral.”

Conservatives must have a tough life because of the high levels of excellence they must adhere to, lest they be considered losers if they fail.

It must be a terrible to be conservative and not be “successful” however one defines “success.”

[CA renter]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=CA renter]

I have yet to meet a European who is envious of our lifestyle. It’s pretty much a given, at least in their minds, that their lifestyle is superior to ours.[/quote]

That’s very interesting.

I don’t think that Europeans want to live us. But leave capitalism and the culture of consumption to run unfettered and eventually everyone in the world will live the same way. [/quote]

What do you think that “same way” would look like: paradise and a high standard of living; or a trashed environment with a tiny number of wealthy, powerful people ruling over the dirty, slaving masses; or something in between (or altogether different)?

[quote=FlyerInHi]Europeans don’t want to be like us, but they are impressed and fearful of our economic and military power. In many ways, they have no choice to follow our lead.[/quote]

Correct. We’ve shown them who’s boss. Our military is superior. Is that a good thing?

[quote=FlyerInHi]Capitalism was not invented in America, but our academics (many Jewish, originally from Europe) have perfected it. We run a better economic system.[/quote]

We’ve bullied our way to the top. Again, not so sure that’s something we should be proud of.

[CA renter]

[quote=njtosd][quote=CA renter]
We should not conflate the desire to “do the right thing” with empathy.
[/quote]

CA Renter – people wouldn’t consider it “right” if they didn’t have empathy. As I have mentioned earlier, I am on the fence politically. There are conservatives who are like you who find self interest in kind acts performed by liberals. What I can’t understand is the belief, on both sides, that the other side is basically wrong (along with a bunch of other bad qualities). It’s similar to the battle of the sexes I’ve seen played out in other threads. We’re all a lot more alike than most are willing to believe – note the statistic in the article that showed that when religious donations were removed, the two parties contributed equally (I don’t think that applied to blood and volunteer hours). I think a lot of people take pride in not being (a) as closed-minded/intolerant/uncaring as the conservatives or (b) as irresponsible/unmotivated/immoral as the liberals. I think a lot of people need to demonize the other side in order to feel superior. I tend to think bad people (and good people) come in all genders, political affiliations, nationalities and yes, Brian, sizes (among other characteristics).[/quote]

We disagree on the desire to “do the right thing” being closely associated with empathy. Empathy might be involved, but in no way is it necessary. I’ve known very good people who always strive to do the right thing, but they have no empathy for those they do not approve of, nor do they have the desire to feel empathetic for these people; their definition of those deserving of empathy can be quite narrow, as well.

And I’m not saying that one group is right or wrong, or good or bad — not making a moral judgment here. It’s just that I’ve noticed these differences between those who tend to be conservative vs. liberal. Not everyone will fit these stereotypes, but I think we’re talking more about the general rule than the exceptions. (Same thing goes for the arguments regarding the gender-based division of labor and the resulting power/wealth gap, and how society reflects those values.)

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=CA renter]
What do you think that “same way” would look like: paradise and a high standard of living; or a trashed environment with a tiny number of wealthy, powerful people ruling over the dirty, slaving masses; or something in between (or altogether different)?
[/quote]

The whole world paved over to look like Carmel Valley

To be clear, Europeans don’t really like our lifestyle just like people in Manhattan don’t like the suburban lifestyle.

But they are envious of the large houses people enjoy in the suburbs. When people in Manhattan can afford it, they do buy SUVs and build apartments the size of suburban houses. The desire to consume is insatiable, in the aggregate.

[FlyerInHi]

I used to be empathetic in my younger days. I’ve grown cold, legalistic and business like. The feelings aren’t there anymore.

[CA renter]

You need to be more empathetic, brian. While you call yourself a liberal, you seem to have much more in common with conservatives than liberals. Perhaps you’re socially liberal, but even if you are, you’re just barely socially liberal. You’re not exactly tolerant.

[an]

CAR, you sound exactly like those AM talk show hosts on the right, except, you just replace liberal with conservative. I find it quite amusing actually that you vilify conservatives just like those AM talk show hosts vilify the liberal. I’m neither a liberal or a conservative, so I get a good chuckle watching both extremes vilify each other.

[CA renter]

[quote=AN]CAR, you sound exactly like those AM talk show hosts on the right, except, you just replace liberal with conservative. I find it quite amusing actually that you vilify conservatives just like those AM talk show hosts vilify the liberal. I’m neither a liberal or a conservative, so I get a good chuckle watching both extremes vilify each other.[/quote]

I believe that our two-party system has been structured in a way that best enables the PTB to manipulate the masses. Party affiliations don’t mean much to me. I vote for (or against) individuals from either party, and am extremely conservative in some ways, while extremely liberal in others. I’m not vilifying anyone, just noting some differences that keep popping up over and over again.

FWIW, I can be extremely intolerant, too. Don’t get me started on criminals who prey on innocent people…I have zero empathy when it comes to people who do that.

[moneymaker]

CAR I think like you do, recently reaffiliated my party registration but will not vote party line…ever!

[an]

[quote=CA renter][quote=AN]CAR, you sound exactly like those AM talk show hosts on the right, except, you just replace liberal with conservative. I find it quite amusing actually that you vilify conservatives just like those AM talk show hosts vilify the liberal. I’m neither a liberal or a conservative, so I get a good chuckle watching both extremes vilify each other.[/quote]

I believe that our two-party system has been structured in a way that best enables the PTB to manipulate the masses. Party affiliations don’t mean much to me. I vote for (or against) individuals from either party, and am extremely conservative in some ways, while extremely liberal in others. I’m not vilifying anyone, just noting some differences that keep popping up over and over again.

FWIW, I can be extremely intolerant, too. Don’t get me started on criminals who prey on innocent people…I have zero empathy when it comes to people who do that.[/quote]Here’s the difference between empathy and sympathy: http://www.diffen.com/difference/Empathy_vs_Sympathy. I don’t believe most people who were never poor can really understand how poor people feel or what they’re going through. So, I don’t believe most of them are empathetic to poor people. I believe most of them are sympathetic, but not empathetic. Just because you vote to take other people’s money to create these social safety net doesn’t make you empathetic. Empathy goes beyond sympathy and I don’t believe most people, from either side are there.

You stated that liberals are more empathetic than conservatives. But you say you’re both liberal and conservative. So, are you more or less empathetic, since you say you’re both? Don’t you think most people in America are the same as you? So, to say liberal are more empathetic than conservative doesn’t make any sense. Whether you think calling conservative non-empathetic is vilifying or not, that’s up to you. My point is, I’ve heard AM talk show hosts talking about liberal the same way you talk about conservative. You and them make it seem people are so black and white instead of acknowledging that the majority are grey. Such as yourself as an example.

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