- This topic has 54 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 6 months ago by
no_such_reality.
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May 24, 2013 at 7:30 AM #762200May 24, 2013 at 8:20 AM #762201
no_such_reality
ParticipantBeing disenfranchised provides the window with which someone pours the verbal diarrhea of blaming others into. A thousand years of religion has then been wrapped around it with the express intention of controlling peoples actions.
The G8 societies have failed miserably in integrating immigrants. We’ve allowed, tolerated and in fact, denigrate anyone speaking against immigrants insulating themselves and building isolated communities that continue the practices of their homeland.
We’ve had that throughout history in the USA, but previously there was an expectation that they integrate. Now, we publish election materials in 26 languages, sue schools to provide instruction in multiple languages, etc.
It’s not just Spanish and Mexicans. You can speak only Mandarin, and live perfectly fine in Irvine. Russian, the same, just a different town.
Now, let’s go have some drone strikes, that’ll solve it right? [/sarcasm]
May 24, 2013 at 10:25 AM #762202FlyerInHi
GuestNot any more disturbing than the young gay guy who was dragged to death in Wyoming or the black people who were mowed over by a pickup truck.
Maybe the Muslims in England have more cause for grievances. Minorities in Europe live in pretty bad ghettos.
Interesting that NSR brings up integration. The situation in Europe is bad.
We have a more vibrant economy in America and immigrants can more easily thrive in commerce and make a living in their own communities.
We also have more generous naturalization policies and once a person is a citizen, he’s the same as a natural born citizen. Europe also has show-me-your-ID laws that are discriminatory and harassing.
May 24, 2013 at 10:52 AM #762204GuestTalking about Europe and immigration, Germany took in 1 million (less 250k departures) new immigrants last year and Angela Merkel said that Germany is open for business. The reforms of the 90s are paying off.
Want to make money in real estate? Buy in Berlin in a good neighborhood for cheap now. In about a decade prices will be on par with Paris and London. I predicted here first.
May 24, 2013 at 11:52 AM #762206Zeitgeist
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Not any more disturbing than the young gay guy who was dragged to death in Wyoming or the black people who were mowed over by a pickup truck.
Maybe the Muslims in England have more cause for grievances. Minorities in Europe live in pretty bad ghettos.
Interesting that NSR brings up integration. The situation in Europe is bad.
We have a more vibrant economy in America and immigrants can more easily thrive in commerce and make a living in their own communities.
We also have more generous naturalization policies and once a person is a citizen, he’s the same as a natural born citizen. Europe also has show-me-your-ID laws that are discriminatory and harassing.[/quote]
This is no justification for murder.
May 24, 2013 at 12:04 PM #762205Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantAnyone following the rioting in Stockholm? Going into a fifth straight day now.
Integration is cited as a key issue, as are the economic circumstances of those rioting.
To me, it’s simple: The world is broken down into “haves” and “have-nots”, and when things get this out-of-whack, this is what happens.
You have youth unemployment rates in Europe topping 50% (or more) in some countries. And, it’s protracted and not showing signs of changing any time soon. How do you think this will play out?
Things are gonna get real ugly.
May 24, 2013 at 8:07 PM #762213spdrun
ParticipantNo justification, but the fact is that crime rates are a product of social conditions. Poor social conditions = more murder.
May 27, 2013 at 2:06 AM #762234CA renter
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Anyone following the rioting in Stockholm? Going into a fifth straight day now.
Integration is cited as a key issue, as are the economic circumstances of those rioting.
To me, it’s simple: The world is broken down into “haves” and “have-nots”, and when things get this out-of-whack, this is what happens.
You have youth unemployment rates in Europe topping 50% (or more) in some countries. And, it’s protracted and not showing signs of changing any time soon. How do you think this will play out?
Things are gonna get real ugly.[/quote]
We cannot fix the problems surrounding immigration and multiculturalism (and globalism) until we are able to openly and honestly discuss the underlying reasons behind the “nationalistic” tendencies of many/most people in developed countries.
I think this sums it up pretty well:
“We have tried harder than any other European country to integrate, spending billions on a welfare system that is designed to help jobless immigrants and guarantee them a good quality of life,” said Marc Abramsson, leader of the National Democrats Party. “Yet we have areas where there are ethnic groups that just don’t identify with Swedish society. They see the police and even the fire brigade as part of the state, and they attack them. We have tried everything, anything, to improve things, but it hasn’t worked. It’s not about racism, it’s just that multi-culturalism doesn’t recognise how humans actually function.”
Aje Carlbom, a Swedish academic and author of a critical study into Swedish immigration policy, added that despite the increasing appeal of Far Right parties, mainstream Swedish politicians were still reluctant to even ask the kind of questions that the likes of Mr Abramsson was already offering answers to.
“Anyone who wants to regulate immigration is immediately classified as a nationalist, which also implies a racist as well,” he said. “It is still almost impossible to debate this question.”
May 28, 2013 at 12:58 PM #762255GuestCA renter, IMHO your post is euphemism for racism.
The problem is not multiculturalism but economics.
We have to compare the differences between the USA and Europe. The big difference is economics.
Despite Europe’s progressive rhetorics, their state directed economies and heterogenous populations create a de facto good ol’ boys club where you have to be of the establishment to make it.
Few tourists ever see the ghetto suburbs where immigrants live in Europe. European city centers that tourists see is far from how immigrants live.
In America, immigrants thrive in commerce. They open up shops, revive neighborhoods and become their own bosses. Prime example is NYC where countless immigrants become millionaires as small business owners and landlords. After 5 years of residency they become full-fledged citizens. Very different in Europe.
America is better positioned for the 21st century global economy.
May 28, 2013 at 5:37 PM #762258desmond
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]CA renter, IMHO your post is euphemism for racism.
The problem is not multiculturalism but economics.
We have to compare the differences between the USA and Europe. The big difference is economics.
Despite Europe’s progressive rhetorics, their state directed economies and heterogenous populations create a de facto good ol’ boys club where you have to be of the establishment to make it.
Few tourists ever see the ghetto suburbs where immigrants live in Europe. European city centers that tourists see is far from how immigrants live.
In America, immigrants thrive in commerce. They open up shops, revive neighborhoods and become their own bosses. Prime example is NYC where countless immigrants become millionaires as small business owners and landlords. After 5 years of residency they become full-fledged citizens. Very different in Europe.
America is better positioned for the 21st century global economy.[/quote]
Flyerishigh…….You can see what you want to see, but you can’t tell others they are not seeing what they are seeing..
May 29, 2013 at 1:11 AM #762261Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]CA renter, IMHO your post is euphemism for racism.
The problem is not multiculturalism but economics.
We have to compare the differences between the USA and Europe. The big difference is economics.
Despite Europe’s progressive rhetorics, their state directed economies and heterogenous populations create a de facto good ol’ boys club where you have to be of the establishment to make it.
Few tourists ever see the ghetto suburbs where immigrants live in Europe. European city centers that tourists see is far from how immigrants live.
In America, immigrants thrive in commerce. They open up shops, revive neighborhoods and become their own bosses. Prime example is NYC where countless immigrants become millionaires as small business owners and landlords. After 5 years of residency they become full-fledged citizens. Very different in Europe.
America is better positioned for the 21st century global economy.[/quote]
The problem is multiculturalism’s effects on economics. When you try to mix cultures that have very different values and beliefs regarding how, when, and why resources should be used, then you will have problems.
For example, you might have two different cultures living together with one group placing a very high value on safety, cleanliness, and having a cohesive, friendly community. This group would probably be willing to pay a fairly high price for this way of life, and many of these people would be willing to work harder in order to achieve these goals.
The second culture/group might instead value free time, and not care at all about how their homes/neighborhoods look, nor care as much about crime because they feel that their freedoms might be curtailed if they focus too much on keeping crime rates down. They would probably NOT be willing to spend more money or work harder toward the same goals as those in the first group.
When you constantly add even more diverse groups, and force them to live in the same neighborhoods/cities/states without openly and honestly acknowledging these differences, this will cause friction between these groups. If resources are scarce, or if the resources belonging to one group are used to work toward goals that are more important to the other group, problems will arise.
We cannot continue to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that these groups are not different, nor should we pretend that the power of one group over the other isn’t going to cause any problems. That is just naive and, IMHO, will lead to even greater problems and resentments down the road.
You can call it whatever name you’d like, but the fact is that the forced “blending” of multiple cultures {especially if it’s against their wills and/or if one group perceives that they are having to sacrifice a lot in order to benefit the other group(s)} has never worked in history, at least not that I’m aware of.
May 29, 2013 at 8:59 AM #762264Participant[quote=spdrun]No justification, but the fact is that crime rates are a product of social conditions. Poor social conditions = more murder.[/quote]
And hard reality is, violent crime is down 69% from the 1990s.
The majority of American think it is up.
May 29, 2013 at 9:47 AM #762266ParticipantBuddhist mobs attack Muslim homes for second day
Machete wielding Buddhist mobs? Apparently, the trigger, whether true or not…
“State television said a mosque, a Muslim religious school and a number of shops were gutted by fires started on Tuesday by Buddhists who rampaged after hearing reports of a Muslim man setting a Buddhist woman on fire and badly wounding her.”
May 29, 2013 at 1:36 PM #762272Guest[quote=no_such_reality][quote=spdrun]No justification, but the fact is that crime rates are a product of social conditions. Poor social conditions = more murder.[/quote]
And hard reality is, violent crime is down 69% from the 1990s.
The majority of American think it is up.[/quote]
We have more multiculturalism today than back in the 1990s
May 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM #762274GuestCa renter, the data doesnt square with your point of view.
Since the dawn of civilization, mutil cultural societies where there is a free flow of commerce, people and ideas always had higher growth and higher wealth.
The problems are apartheid-like or segregational systems where there are different classes of citizens (de jure or de facto). By citizens I mean everyone who lives in a community.
That’s why we need to address structural problems where certain groups have outsize power over other communities.
And freedom means that your neighbor has the rIght to jack up his truck on cinder blocks if he so feels like. For those who don’t like that there are HOAs.
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