Underwater Homeowners Thread

[sdnerd]

[quote=ibjames]you guys are missing the point.. he’s not a FB.. he’s a guy that can afford his house, but now he sees other houses that are bigger and better, and NOW wants to get a loan mod because his house is even cheaper.

He’s not under financial duress.. he hasn’t lost his job, nothing.. he is looking and seeing the grass is greener and is willing to just dump his house so he can get a bigger house

If I remember correctly, it’s even cheaper than the rent he was paying at that time, he can afford it, he just wants something better now.

Which is just PURE greed[/quote]

I think this is the part where each individuals morals come in to play. This will be different for everyone.

At the end of the day, the agreement he entered into is what it is. It’s legally his option should he attempt to re-negotiate while the opportunity presents itself.

I can pay all my suppliers and vendors, and I’m not under any financial distress. But I sure as hell am going to push to re-negotiate every single business contract I’m under to bring it at least close to today’s market rates. They will lower their prices, or someone else will get my business. If it’s a valued partner, or someone I want to help keep in business then I’d be willing to pay more. These are all my choices.

The moral difference between the two is dependent on the individual.

[sdnerd]

[quote=TheBreeze]
And if you think you’re ‘success’ means anything, you should read the book Fooled By Randomness. For every ‘business person’ like yourself who gets lucky and doesn’t default, there are 9 who fail. Of course, the runners of ‘successful’ businesses always give all the credit to themselves and none of it to luck which likely played a large part in your ‘success’. [/quote]

You dodged my question – have you ever run your own business? I’m just curious if you’ve actually engaged in any of these things you talk about.

And yes, if I defaulted the bank would have gotten their money back because the loan was backed by my personal assets.

From my personal experiences, in both successes and failures. I would say it’s about 110% luck, and 90% hard work. And yes I know the math doesn’t compute.

You either need to get incredibly lucky, or you need to work incredibly hard AND get incredibly lucky in my opinion.

Again, you paint with broad strokes and it greatly diminishes the viewpoints you are trying to convey.

[sdnerd]

[quote=TheBreeze]
And if you think you’re ‘success’ means anything, you should read the book Fooled By Randomness. For every ‘business person’ like yourself who gets lucky and doesn’t default, there are 9 who fail. Of course, the runners of ‘successful’ businesses always give all the credit to themselves and none of it to luck which likely played a large part in your ‘success’. [/quote]

You dodged my question – have you ever run your own business? I’m just curious if you’ve actually engaged in any of these things you talk about.

And yes, if I defaulted the bank would have gotten their money back because the loan was backed by my personal assets.

From my personal experiences, in both successes and failures. I would say it’s about 110% luck, and 90% hard work. And yes I know the math doesn’t compute.

You either need to get incredibly lucky, or you need to work incredibly hard AND get incredibly lucky in my opinion.

Again, you paint with broad strokes and it greatly diminishes the viewpoints you are trying to convey.

[sdnerd]

[quote=TheBreeze]
And if you think you’re ‘success’ means anything, you should read the book Fooled By Randomness. For every ‘business person’ like yourself who gets lucky and doesn’t default, there are 9 who fail. Of course, the runners of ‘successful’ businesses always give all the credit to themselves and none of it to luck which likely played a large part in your ‘success’. [/quote]

You dodged my question – have you ever run your own business? I’m just curious if you’ve actually engaged in any of these things you talk about.

And yes, if I defaulted the bank would have gotten their money back because the loan was backed by my personal assets.

From my personal experiences, in both successes and failures. I would say it’s about 110% luck, and 90% hard work. And yes I know the math doesn’t compute.

You either need to get incredibly lucky, or you need to work incredibly hard AND get incredibly lucky in my opinion.

Again, you paint with broad strokes and it greatly diminishes the viewpoints you are trying to convey.

[sdnerd]

[quote=TheBreeze]
And if you think you’re ‘success’ means anything, you should read the book Fooled By Randomness. For every ‘business person’ like yourself who gets lucky and doesn’t default, there are 9 who fail. Of course, the runners of ‘successful’ businesses always give all the credit to themselves and none of it to luck which likely played a large part in your ‘success’. [/quote]

You dodged my question – have you ever run your own business? I’m just curious if you’ve actually engaged in any of these things you talk about.

And yes, if I defaulted the bank would have gotten their money back because the loan was backed by my personal assets.

From my personal experiences, in both successes and failures. I would say it’s about 110% luck, and 90% hard work. And yes I know the math doesn’t compute.

You either need to get incredibly lucky, or you need to work incredibly hard AND get incredibly lucky in my opinion.

Again, you paint with broad strokes and it greatly diminishes the viewpoints you are trying to convey.

[sdnerd]

[quote=TheBreeze]
And if you think you’re ‘success’ means anything, you should read the book Fooled By Randomness. For every ‘business person’ like yourself who gets lucky and doesn’t default, there are 9 who fail. Of course, the runners of ‘successful’ businesses always give all the credit to themselves and none of it to luck which likely played a large part in your ‘success’. [/quote]

You dodged my question – have you ever run your own business? I’m just curious if you’ve actually engaged in any of these things you talk about.

And yes, if I defaulted the bank would have gotten their money back because the loan was backed by my personal assets.

From my personal experiences, in both successes and failures. I would say it’s about 110% luck, and 90% hard work. And yes I know the math doesn’t compute.

You either need to get incredibly lucky, or you need to work incredibly hard AND get incredibly lucky in my opinion.

Again, you paint with broad strokes and it greatly diminishes the viewpoints you are trying to convey.

[ibjames]

[quote=sdnerd][quote=ibjames]you guys are missing the point.. he’s not a FB.. he’s a guy that can afford his house, but now he sees other houses that are bigger and better, and NOW wants to get a loan mod because his house is even cheaper.

He’s not under financial duress.. he hasn’t lost his job, nothing.. he is looking and seeing the grass is greener and is willing to just dump his house so he can get a bigger house

If I remember correctly, it’s even cheaper than the rent he was paying at that time, he can afford it, he just wants something better now.

Which is just PURE greed[/quote]

I think this is the part where each individuals morals come in to play. This will be different for everyone.

At the end of the day, the agreement he entered into is what it is. It’s legally his option should he attempt to re-negotiate while the opportunity presents itself.

I can pay all my suppliers and vendors, and I’m not under any financial distress. But I sure as hell am going to push to re-negotiate every single business contract I’m under to bring it at least close to today’s market rates. They will lower their prices, or someone else will get my business. If it’s a valued partner, or someone I want to help keep in business then I’d be willing to pay more. These are all my choices.

The moral difference between the two is dependent on the individual.

[/quote]

c’mon, you have to admit, negotiating contracts with suppliers and your home purchase is different. You can’t compare them as apples vs. apples. You are providing a service with your business, in order for you to stay in business is to keep costs low.

You buy your house, prices go down, you bail? Even though you can afford it? If he renegotiates, I’m at the point that I don’t care anymore, I’m telling coworkers to make sure they look into it. Why not?

I just wonder what is going to happen when they adjust the mortgages of people that can pay, kick out the people that can’t, and when the housing prices trend down a bit further and the people they just adjusted are pissed off again.. what are they going to do then.. nothing gets solved

[ibjames]

[quote=sdnerd][quote=ibjames]you guys are missing the point.. he’s not a FB.. he’s a guy that can afford his house, but now he sees other houses that are bigger and better, and NOW wants to get a loan mod because his house is even cheaper.

He’s not under financial duress.. he hasn’t lost his job, nothing.. he is looking and seeing the grass is greener and is willing to just dump his house so he can get a bigger house

If I remember correctly, it’s even cheaper than the rent he was paying at that time, he can afford it, he just wants something better now.

Which is just PURE greed[/quote]

I think this is the part where each individuals morals come in to play. This will be different for everyone.

At the end of the day, the agreement he entered into is what it is. It’s legally his option should he attempt to re-negotiate while the opportunity presents itself.

I can pay all my suppliers and vendors, and I’m not under any financial distress. But I sure as hell am going to push to re-negotiate every single business contract I’m under to bring it at least close to today’s market rates. They will lower their prices, or someone else will get my business. If it’s a valued partner, or someone I want to help keep in business then I’d be willing to pay more. These are all my choices.

The moral difference between the two is dependent on the individual.

[/quote]

c’mon, you have to admit, negotiating contracts with suppliers and your home purchase is different. You can’t compare them as apples vs. apples. You are providing a service with your business, in order for you to stay in business is to keep costs low.

You buy your house, prices go down, you bail? Even though you can afford it? If he renegotiates, I’m at the point that I don’t care anymore, I’m telling coworkers to make sure they look into it. Why not?

I just wonder what is going to happen when they adjust the mortgages of people that can pay, kick out the people that can’t, and when the housing prices trend down a bit further and the people they just adjusted are pissed off again.. what are they going to do then.. nothing gets solved

[ibjames]

[quote=sdnerd][quote=ibjames]you guys are missing the point.. he’s not a FB.. he’s a guy that can afford his house, but now he sees other houses that are bigger and better, and NOW wants to get a loan mod because his house is even cheaper.

He’s not under financial duress.. he hasn’t lost his job, nothing.. he is looking and seeing the grass is greener and is willing to just dump his house so he can get a bigger house

If I remember correctly, it’s even cheaper than the rent he was paying at that time, he can afford it, he just wants something better now.

Which is just PURE greed[/quote]

I think this is the part where each individuals morals come in to play. This will be different for everyone.

At the end of the day, the agreement he entered into is what it is. It’s legally his option should he attempt to re-negotiate while the opportunity presents itself.

I can pay all my suppliers and vendors, and I’m not under any financial distress. But I sure as hell am going to push to re-negotiate every single business contract I’m under to bring it at least close to today’s market rates. They will lower their prices, or someone else will get my business. If it’s a valued partner, or someone I want to help keep in business then I’d be willing to pay more. These are all my choices.

The moral difference between the two is dependent on the individual.

[/quote]

c’mon, you have to admit, negotiating contracts with suppliers and your home purchase is different. You can’t compare them as apples vs. apples. You are providing a service with your business, in order for you to stay in business is to keep costs low.

You buy your house, prices go down, you bail? Even though you can afford it? If he renegotiates, I’m at the point that I don’t care anymore, I’m telling coworkers to make sure they look into it. Why not?

I just wonder what is going to happen when they adjust the mortgages of people that can pay, kick out the people that can’t, and when the housing prices trend down a bit further and the people they just adjusted are pissed off again.. what are they going to do then.. nothing gets solved

[ibjames]

[quote=sdnerd][quote=ibjames]you guys are missing the point.. he’s not a FB.. he’s a guy that can afford his house, but now he sees other houses that are bigger and better, and NOW wants to get a loan mod because his house is even cheaper.

He’s not under financial duress.. he hasn’t lost his job, nothing.. he is looking and seeing the grass is greener and is willing to just dump his house so he can get a bigger house

If I remember correctly, it’s even cheaper than the rent he was paying at that time, he can afford it, he just wants something better now.

Which is just PURE greed[/quote]

I think this is the part where each individuals morals come in to play. This will be different for everyone.

At the end of the day, the agreement he entered into is what it is. It’s legally his option should he attempt to re-negotiate while the opportunity presents itself.

I can pay all my suppliers and vendors, and I’m not under any financial distress. But I sure as hell am going to push to re-negotiate every single business contract I’m under to bring it at least close to today’s market rates. They will lower their prices, or someone else will get my business. If it’s a valued partner, or someone I want to help keep in business then I’d be willing to pay more. These are all my choices.

The moral difference between the two is dependent on the individual.

[/quote]

c’mon, you have to admit, negotiating contracts with suppliers and your home purchase is different. You can’t compare them as apples vs. apples. You are providing a service with your business, in order for you to stay in business is to keep costs low.

You buy your house, prices go down, you bail? Even though you can afford it? If he renegotiates, I’m at the point that I don’t care anymore, I’m telling coworkers to make sure they look into it. Why not?

I just wonder what is going to happen when they adjust the mortgages of people that can pay, kick out the people that can’t, and when the housing prices trend down a bit further and the people they just adjusted are pissed off again.. what are they going to do then.. nothing gets solved

[ibjames]

[quote=sdnerd][quote=ibjames]you guys are missing the point.. he’s not a FB.. he’s a guy that can afford his house, but now he sees other houses that are bigger and better, and NOW wants to get a loan mod because his house is even cheaper.

He’s not under financial duress.. he hasn’t lost his job, nothing.. he is looking and seeing the grass is greener and is willing to just dump his house so he can get a bigger house

If I remember correctly, it’s even cheaper than the rent he was paying at that time, he can afford it, he just wants something better now.

Which is just PURE greed[/quote]

I think this is the part where each individuals morals come in to play. This will be different for everyone.

At the end of the day, the agreement he entered into is what it is. It’s legally his option should he attempt to re-negotiate while the opportunity presents itself.

I can pay all my suppliers and vendors, and I’m not under any financial distress. But I sure as hell am going to push to re-negotiate every single business contract I’m under to bring it at least close to today’s market rates. They will lower their prices, or someone else will get my business. If it’s a valued partner, or someone I want to help keep in business then I’d be willing to pay more. These are all my choices.

The moral difference between the two is dependent on the individual.

[/quote]

c’mon, you have to admit, negotiating contracts with suppliers and your home purchase is different. You can’t compare them as apples vs. apples. You are providing a service with your business, in order for you to stay in business is to keep costs low.

You buy your house, prices go down, you bail? Even though you can afford it? If he renegotiates, I’m at the point that I don’t care anymore, I’m telling coworkers to make sure they look into it. Why not?

I just wonder what is going to happen when they adjust the mortgages of people that can pay, kick out the people that can’t, and when the housing prices trend down a bit further and the people they just adjusted are pissed off again.. what are they going to do then.. nothing gets solved

[sdnerd]

[quote=ibjames]
c’mon, you have to admit, negotiating contracts with suppliers and your home purchase is different.

…

You buy your house, prices go down, you bail? Even though you can afford it? If he renegotiates, I’m at the point that I don’t care anymore, I’m telling coworkers to make sure they look into it. Why not?

[/quote]

Yeah, don’t get me wrong here. I’m not saying it’s the moral high road to take, or that I’d encourage his actions. I’m just saying he’s legally entitled to attempt to re-negotiate, or walk and held only to the contract he signed. Calling him names might make some people feel better, but it’s ultimately irrelevant.

If prices go down enough on your house, then yes I do suggest walking is the financially prudent thing to do.

If a young coupled paid $600K with little or no money down for the same house that today could be purchased for $300K. Regardless as to whether or not they can service their current loan – it just makes pure financial sense to walk. I’d assume everyone has their own underwater threshold.

If you and I were good friends in real life, and that was your situation. Absolutely I would recommend that you consider that option seriously.

Now if you were a flipper, I’d tell you to ram it up your you know what. Even though the same financial decision makes the most sense. 🙂

[sdnerd]

[quote=ibjames]
c’mon, you have to admit, negotiating contracts with suppliers and your home purchase is different.

…

You buy your house, prices go down, you bail? Even though you can afford it? If he renegotiates, I’m at the point that I don’t care anymore, I’m telling coworkers to make sure they look into it. Why not?

[/quote]

Yeah, don’t get me wrong here. I’m not saying it’s the moral high road to take, or that I’d encourage his actions. I’m just saying he’s legally entitled to attempt to re-negotiate, or walk and held only to the contract he signed. Calling him names might make some people feel better, but it’s ultimately irrelevant.

If prices go down enough on your house, then yes I do suggest walking is the financially prudent thing to do.

If a young coupled paid $600K with little or no money down for the same house that today could be purchased for $300K. Regardless as to whether or not they can service their current loan – it just makes pure financial sense to walk. I’d assume everyone has their own underwater threshold.

If you and I were good friends in real life, and that was your situation. Absolutely I would recommend that you consider that option seriously.

Now if you were a flipper, I’d tell you to ram it up your you know what. Even though the same financial decision makes the most sense. 🙂

[sdnerd]

[quote=ibjames]
c’mon, you have to admit, negotiating contracts with suppliers and your home purchase is different.

…

You buy your house, prices go down, you bail? Even though you can afford it? If he renegotiates, I’m at the point that I don’t care anymore, I’m telling coworkers to make sure they look into it. Why not?

[/quote]

Yeah, don’t get me wrong here. I’m not saying it’s the moral high road to take, or that I’d encourage his actions. I’m just saying he’s legally entitled to attempt to re-negotiate, or walk and held only to the contract he signed. Calling him names might make some people feel better, but it’s ultimately irrelevant.

If prices go down enough on your house, then yes I do suggest walking is the financially prudent thing to do.

If a young coupled paid $600K with little or no money down for the same house that today could be purchased for $300K. Regardless as to whether or not they can service their current loan – it just makes pure financial sense to walk. I’d assume everyone has their own underwater threshold.

If you and I were good friends in real life, and that was your situation. Absolutely I would recommend that you consider that option seriously.

Now if you were a flipper, I’d tell you to ram it up your you know what. Even though the same financial decision makes the most sense. 🙂

[sdnerd]

[quote=ibjames]
c’mon, you have to admit, negotiating contracts with suppliers and your home purchase is different.

…

You buy your house, prices go down, you bail? Even though you can afford it? If he renegotiates, I’m at the point that I don’t care anymore, I’m telling coworkers to make sure they look into it. Why not?

[/quote]

Yeah, don’t get me wrong here. I’m not saying it’s the moral high road to take, or that I’d encourage his actions. I’m just saying he’s legally entitled to attempt to re-negotiate, or walk and held only to the contract he signed. Calling him names might make some people feel better, but it’s ultimately irrelevant.

If prices go down enough on your house, then yes I do suggest walking is the financially prudent thing to do.

If a young coupled paid $600K with little or no money down for the same house that today could be purchased for $300K. Regardless as to whether or not they can service their current loan – it just makes pure financial sense to walk. I’d assume everyone has their own underwater threshold.

If you and I were good friends in real life, and that was your situation. Absolutely I would recommend that you consider that option seriously.

Now if you were a flipper, I’d tell you to ram it up your you know what. Even though the same financial decision makes the most sense. 🙂

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