Underwater Homeowners Thread

[WaitingToExhale]

As a holdout renter waiting for the market to become reasonable; I’ve been thinking about the whole ethics in walking away questions quite a bit. I think there is a fundamental inequality in arguing that someone who can afford a house should stay in it regardless of the market.

Let’s take away the group of folks who can’t make payments because of unexpected troubles (job loss, medical problems, etc, as a group for which most would agree that losing a home is an unfortunate by probably necessary outcome. That leaves us with folks who took out loans that would reset into payments they couldn’t afford, and those that took out loans they could afford. If you argue that anyone who can make a payment should stay in their house regardless of the value, then only those who made foolish choices can walk away… which can be a benefit in the current market. How in the world is that fair? This perpetuates the problem of punishing those who were making (at least somewhat) financially sound decisions compared to the folks who were entirely out of touch with reality.

Loans are business agreements. The banks (supposedly) lent loans under conditions where they understood the risks and with significant consequences to default. There are credit consequences to walking away that still serve as a downside; it just competes with a stronger upside these days.

Besides, the more folks walk away, the more foreclosures and the more rapidly the market corrects.

[RB132]

[quote=TheBreeze][quote=threadkiller]

Are you one of those slumlords Breeze? It just makes me sick to hear a slumlord denigrate one of their potential renters. We all benefited from the loose money one way or another and now we will all be paying for it. [/quote]

I don’t own any real estate. Never have and there is a good chance I never will so long as the government continues to manipulate the RE market. Are you a housing welfare queen?

And we didn’t all benefit, but it looks like all U.S. taxpayers will be paying for it. I would be very happy if the government took away all artificial support for housing prices. I would like to see Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the FHLBs, Ginnie Mae, FHA, the mortgage interest deduction and all other artificial support for housing prices abolished. Could you imagine how cheap housing would be at that point? We’d all be rich because our housing costs would drop about 2/3rds.[/quote]

You are absolutely correct. Unbeliebly, the whole nation is doing the best to re-inflate the bubble to continue the borrowing-spending good life.

[RB132]

[quote=TheBreeze][quote=threadkiller]

Are you one of those slumlords Breeze? It just makes me sick to hear a slumlord denigrate one of their potential renters. We all benefited from the loose money one way or another and now we will all be paying for it. [/quote]

I don’t own any real estate. Never have and there is a good chance I never will so long as the government continues to manipulate the RE market. Are you a housing welfare queen?

And we didn’t all benefit, but it looks like all U.S. taxpayers will be paying for it. I would be very happy if the government took away all artificial support for housing prices. I would like to see Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the FHLBs, Ginnie Mae, FHA, the mortgage interest deduction and all other artificial support for housing prices abolished. Could you imagine how cheap housing would be at that point? We’d all be rich because our housing costs would drop about 2/3rds.[/quote]

You are absolutely correct. Unbeliebly, the whole nation is doing the best to re-inflate the bubble to continue the borrowing-spending good life.

[RB132]

[quote=TheBreeze][quote=threadkiller]

Are you one of those slumlords Breeze? It just makes me sick to hear a slumlord denigrate one of their potential renters. We all benefited from the loose money one way or another and now we will all be paying for it. [/quote]

I don’t own any real estate. Never have and there is a good chance I never will so long as the government continues to manipulate the RE market. Are you a housing welfare queen?

And we didn’t all benefit, but it looks like all U.S. taxpayers will be paying for it. I would be very happy if the government took away all artificial support for housing prices. I would like to see Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the FHLBs, Ginnie Mae, FHA, the mortgage interest deduction and all other artificial support for housing prices abolished. Could you imagine how cheap housing would be at that point? We’d all be rich because our housing costs would drop about 2/3rds.[/quote]

You are absolutely correct. Unbeliebly, the whole nation is doing the best to re-inflate the bubble to continue the borrowing-spending good life.

[RB132]

[quote=TheBreeze][quote=threadkiller]

Are you one of those slumlords Breeze? It just makes me sick to hear a slumlord denigrate one of their potential renters. We all benefited from the loose money one way or another and now we will all be paying for it. [/quote]

I don’t own any real estate. Never have and there is a good chance I never will so long as the government continues to manipulate the RE market. Are you a housing welfare queen?

And we didn’t all benefit, but it looks like all U.S. taxpayers will be paying for it. I would be very happy if the government took away all artificial support for housing prices. I would like to see Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the FHLBs, Ginnie Mae, FHA, the mortgage interest deduction and all other artificial support for housing prices abolished. Could you imagine how cheap housing would be at that point? We’d all be rich because our housing costs would drop about 2/3rds.[/quote]

You are absolutely correct. Unbeliebly, the whole nation is doing the best to re-inflate the bubble to continue the borrowing-spending good life.

[RB132]

[quote=TheBreeze][quote=threadkiller]

Are you one of those slumlords Breeze? It just makes me sick to hear a slumlord denigrate one of their potential renters. We all benefited from the loose money one way or another and now we will all be paying for it. [/quote]

I don’t own any real estate. Never have and there is a good chance I never will so long as the government continues to manipulate the RE market. Are you a housing welfare queen?

And we didn’t all benefit, but it looks like all U.S. taxpayers will be paying for it. I would be very happy if the government took away all artificial support for housing prices. I would like to see Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the FHLBs, Ginnie Mae, FHA, the mortgage interest deduction and all other artificial support for housing prices abolished. Could you imagine how cheap housing would be at that point? We’d all be rich because our housing costs would drop about 2/3rds.[/quote]

You are absolutely correct. Unbeliebly, the whole nation is doing the best to re-inflate the bubble to continue the borrowing-spending good life.

[NotCranky]

TG,
It was indeed a thing of beauty TG. I think this is not the end of the world.I can’t say much because I am pretty sure I contributed something to your rationale for buying and got flamed royally while doing it, not by you.
What happens to us is going to depend as much on what we do as individuals as much as the ratio or coyotes to foxes. That is true always.Two people could have bought your house… or paramount’s house… or mine, on the same day and ended up with completely different results and feelings/beliefs about them.

I am sure that there are those who believe houses are irrelevant at this point and I can’t say I blame them either.

I like the responses to your philosophy by the other posters too.

[NotCranky]

TG,
It was indeed a thing of beauty TG. I think this is not the end of the world.I can’t say much because I am pretty sure I contributed something to your rationale for buying and got flamed royally while doing it, not by you.
What happens to us is going to depend as much on what we do as individuals as much as the ratio or coyotes to foxes. That is true always.Two people could have bought your house… or paramount’s house… or mine, on the same day and ended up with completely different results and feelings/beliefs about them.

I am sure that there are those who believe houses are irrelevant at this point and I can’t say I blame them either.

I like the responses to your philosophy by the other posters too.

[NotCranky]

TG,
It was indeed a thing of beauty TG. I think this is not the end of the world.I can’t say much because I am pretty sure I contributed something to your rationale for buying and got flamed royally while doing it, not by you.
What happens to us is going to depend as much on what we do as individuals as much as the ratio or coyotes to foxes. That is true always.Two people could have bought your house… or paramount’s house… or mine, on the same day and ended up with completely different results and feelings/beliefs about them.

I am sure that there are those who believe houses are irrelevant at this point and I can’t say I blame them either.

I like the responses to your philosophy by the other posters too.

[NotCranky]

TG,
It was indeed a thing of beauty TG. I think this is not the end of the world.I can’t say much because I am pretty sure I contributed something to your rationale for buying and got flamed royally while doing it, not by you.
What happens to us is going to depend as much on what we do as individuals as much as the ratio or coyotes to foxes. That is true always.Two people could have bought your house… or paramount’s house… or mine, on the same day and ended up with completely different results and feelings/beliefs about them.

I am sure that there are those who believe houses are irrelevant at this point and I can’t say I blame them either.

I like the responses to your philosophy by the other posters too.

[NotCranky]

TG,
It was indeed a thing of beauty TG. I think this is not the end of the world.I can’t say much because I am pretty sure I contributed something to your rationale for buying and got flamed royally while doing it, not by you.
What happens to us is going to depend as much on what we do as individuals as much as the ratio or coyotes to foxes. That is true always.Two people could have bought your house… or paramount’s house… or mine, on the same day and ended up with completely different results and feelings/beliefs about them.

I am sure that there are those who believe houses are irrelevant at this point and I can’t say I blame them either.

I like the responses to your philosophy by the other posters too.

[Rt.66]

Here’s the deal with the mountain of wanna-be specuvestors who bid up housing in the bubble as viewed from a casino floor roulet wheel:

The bubble-nuts placed bets by bidding up houses. When houses kept going up they doubled down and bid them ever higher. Over and over they let it ride……a $130k house became a $240k house, which then was bid up to $350k (Weeee, waiter another mojito please, pit boss add it to my marker) and then the more fearless gambler, bubble-nut bet it up to $500k!

When the roulet wheel stopped spinning and they came up lossers they simply said sorry, I did not understand the game and I’m not paying. They walked away from their marker at the casino and left everyone else wondering what to do with super-inflated bets when no one wants to play or pay anymore.

So now we tax payers are stuck with their marker, we get to pay for there drunken casino orgy. We responsible people who could clearly see this was reckless gambling get the entire bill for their steely nerve at the roulet wheel.

Wall Street was different. They lead everyone to believe their 401k was actually in a legitimate casino and that we had a chance of winning. However, the thieving Wall Street insiders do not leave things to chance so they grabbed all the money off the table while the wheel was still spinning and ran! Wash and repeat every 15-20 years.

[Rt.66]

Here’s the deal with the mountain of wanna-be specuvestors who bid up housing in the bubble as viewed from a casino floor roulet wheel:

The bubble-nuts placed bets by bidding up houses. When houses kept going up they doubled down and bid them ever higher. Over and over they let it ride……a $130k house became a $240k house, which then was bid up to $350k (Weeee, waiter another mojito please, pit boss add it to my marker) and then the more fearless gambler, bubble-nut bet it up to $500k!

When the roulet wheel stopped spinning and they came up lossers they simply said sorry, I did not understand the game and I’m not paying. They walked away from their marker at the casino and left everyone else wondering what to do with super-inflated bets when no one wants to play or pay anymore.

So now we tax payers are stuck with their marker, we get to pay for there drunken casino orgy. We responsible people who could clearly see this was reckless gambling get the entire bill for their steely nerve at the roulet wheel.

Wall Street was different. They lead everyone to believe their 401k was actually in a legitimate casino and that we had a chance of winning. However, the thieving Wall Street insiders do not leave things to chance so they grabbed all the money off the table while the wheel was still spinning and ran! Wash and repeat every 15-20 years.

[Rt.66]

Here’s the deal with the mountain of wanna-be specuvestors who bid up housing in the bubble as viewed from a casino floor roulet wheel:

The bubble-nuts placed bets by bidding up houses. When houses kept going up they doubled down and bid them ever higher. Over and over they let it ride……a $130k house became a $240k house, which then was bid up to $350k (Weeee, waiter another mojito please, pit boss add it to my marker) and then the more fearless gambler, bubble-nut bet it up to $500k!

When the roulet wheel stopped spinning and they came up lossers they simply said sorry, I did not understand the game and I’m not paying. They walked away from their marker at the casino and left everyone else wondering what to do with super-inflated bets when no one wants to play or pay anymore.

So now we tax payers are stuck with their marker, we get to pay for there drunken casino orgy. We responsible people who could clearly see this was reckless gambling get the entire bill for their steely nerve at the roulet wheel.

Wall Street was different. They lead everyone to believe their 401k was actually in a legitimate casino and that we had a chance of winning. However, the thieving Wall Street insiders do not leave things to chance so they grabbed all the money off the table while the wheel was still spinning and ran! Wash and repeat every 15-20 years.

[Rt.66]

Here’s the deal with the mountain of wanna-be specuvestors who bid up housing in the bubble as viewed from a casino floor roulet wheel:

The bubble-nuts placed bets by bidding up houses. When houses kept going up they doubled down and bid them ever higher. Over and over they let it ride……a $130k house became a $240k house, which then was bid up to $350k (Weeee, waiter another mojito please, pit boss add it to my marker) and then the more fearless gambler, bubble-nut bet it up to $500k!

When the roulet wheel stopped spinning and they came up lossers they simply said sorry, I did not understand the game and I’m not paying. They walked away from their marker at the casino and left everyone else wondering what to do with super-inflated bets when no one wants to play or pay anymore.

So now we tax payers are stuck with their marker, we get to pay for there drunken casino orgy. We responsible people who could clearly see this was reckless gambling get the entire bill for their steely nerve at the roulet wheel.

Wall Street was different. They lead everyone to believe their 401k was actually in a legitimate casino and that we had a chance of winning. However, the thieving Wall Street insiders do not leave things to chance so they grabbed all the money off the table while the wheel was still spinning and ran! Wash and repeat every 15-20 years.

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