The Pigs are Famous… OK act cool everybody, there a flood of new members on the horizon?

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]The pension liabilities in California are somewhere between 500 billion and 700 billion!

It’s called fleecing of the tax payers…[/quote]

Paramount,

Those payments do NOT come from the taxpayers. They come from the pension contributions from workers and their employers (as part of their compensation), and the rest (~70%, last I saw) comes from investment returns. The public has not had to spend a single cent on the pension funds in California (not any other state that I’m aware of, either, but don’t know enough about those pension funds to comment).

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]As you pointed out, were already being squeezed by corporations and gov’t policies dictated by those same corporations; the last thing we need is to pay for untold #’s of fat cat gov’t workers (and utility workers as well) golden pensions and overly generous benefits.

[/quote]

Once the unions are gone, what makes you think those corporations are going to be any more generous? What makes you think they are even going to leave things as they are? Once the unions are gone, there will be nobody left to defend the workers against the large corporations.

The loss of unions in the private sector is responsible for those corporations squeezing you. Why do people not understand that?

Unions are the counterbalance to the corporations’ greed. Without them, there is absolutely nothing left to prop up the middle class. Nothing. Perhaps you are okay with that, but I’m not.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]As you pointed out, were already being squeezed by corporations and gov’t policies dictated by those same corporations; the last thing we need is to pay for untold #’s of fat cat gov’t workers (and utility workers as well) golden pensions and overly generous benefits.

[/quote]

Once the unions are gone, what makes you think those corporations are going to be any more generous? What makes you think they are even going to leave things as they are? Once the unions are gone, there will be nobody left to defend the workers against the large corporations.

The loss of unions in the private sector is responsible for those corporations squeezing you. Why do people not understand that?

Unions are the counterbalance to the corporations’ greed. Without them, there is absolutely nothing left to prop up the middle class. Nothing. Perhaps you are okay with that, but I’m not.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]As you pointed out, were already being squeezed by corporations and gov’t policies dictated by those same corporations; the last thing we need is to pay for untold #’s of fat cat gov’t workers (and utility workers as well) golden pensions and overly generous benefits.

[/quote]

Once the unions are gone, what makes you think those corporations are going to be any more generous? What makes you think they are even going to leave things as they are? Once the unions are gone, there will be nobody left to defend the workers against the large corporations.

The loss of unions in the private sector is responsible for those corporations squeezing you. Why do people not understand that?

Unions are the counterbalance to the corporations’ greed. Without them, there is absolutely nothing left to prop up the middle class. Nothing. Perhaps you are okay with that, but I’m not.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]As you pointed out, were already being squeezed by corporations and gov’t policies dictated by those same corporations; the last thing we need is to pay for untold #’s of fat cat gov’t workers (and utility workers as well) golden pensions and overly generous benefits.

[/quote]

Once the unions are gone, what makes you think those corporations are going to be any more generous? What makes you think they are even going to leave things as they are? Once the unions are gone, there will be nobody left to defend the workers against the large corporations.

The loss of unions in the private sector is responsible for those corporations squeezing you. Why do people not understand that?

Unions are the counterbalance to the corporations’ greed. Without them, there is absolutely nothing left to prop up the middle class. Nothing. Perhaps you are okay with that, but I’m not.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]As you pointed out, were already being squeezed by corporations and gov’t policies dictated by those same corporations; the last thing we need is to pay for untold #’s of fat cat gov’t workers (and utility workers as well) golden pensions and overly generous benefits.

[/quote]

Once the unions are gone, what makes you think those corporations are going to be any more generous? What makes you think they are even going to leave things as they are? Once the unions are gone, there will be nobody left to defend the workers against the large corporations.

The loss of unions in the private sector is responsible for those corporations squeezing you. Why do people not understand that?

Unions are the counterbalance to the corporations’ greed. Without them, there is absolutely nothing left to prop up the middle class. Nothing. Perhaps you are okay with that, but I’m not.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]CA Renter: It’s not a question of “they get this pay or these benefits” and we (private sector workers like myself) don’t – the problem is WE have to pay for it.

As you pointed out, were already being squeezed by corporations and gov’t policies dictated by those same corporations; the last thing we need is to pay for untold #’s of fat cat gov’t workers (and utility workers as well) golden pensions and overly generous benefits.

And let’s not lump all unions in the same basket, I fully support unions in the private sector, but not public sector unions. Between the public employee unions and the large number of politicians in their pockets Joe 6-Pack doesn’t stand a chance. Public employee unions don’t need to go away, they just need to make SIGNIFICANT concessions.

By the way, I already compete in the global labor market, unlike most gov’t workers.

And just b/c an argument doesn’t align with your views does not make it illogical or poorly reasoned.[/quote]

WE have to pay for everything — in the private and public sectors. We (consumers) pay for the executives’ compensation, too!

I don’t like to pay the high prices companies charge because they have huge marketing costs (paying athletes and entertainers millions of dollars) or pay huge bonuses to their executives, but I still have to (don’t start with the “you have a choice” nonsense, because all too often, we don’t).

I hate to pay for wars that are fought to enrich the few at the expense of many. I hate paying for our huge defense budget. I hate paying for deadbeats to stay in houses they never should have bought in the first place. I hate paying for illegal immigrants who come here to take jobs from Americans. I HATE, more than anything in the world, paying for the “revival” of the financial sector, and all the related thugs who do NOTHING productive for society, but suck up a HUGE portion of our economy, and are responsible for the shrinking of our middle class.

We all have to pay for things we don’t like, but at least with the union workers, the vast majority of them make our society a safer, better, more comfortable place where people are free to transact business instead of having to worry about day-to-day survival (as seen in countries with poorly paid public workers). The paychecks of those workers are immediately circulated back into the economy — with NO debt offset (this cannot be overstated). When money goes to the very top, it can go overseas or be loaned out so that regular working people have to pay it back, WITH INTEREST. Shifting money to the top 10% does NOT improve our economy and does NOT make our local communities thrive.

Those union workers ARE the Joe Sixpacks of this country. You’re not at all grasping why private sector workers are falling behind. You’re looking in the wrong direction. Like rats on a sinking ship, we are turning against each other, rather than building ourselves up. We need to bring the private sector UP to where they belong, not drag the unions down.

BTW, you are not competing with global labor. Just wait until the unions collapse. They’ve been fighting to protect American jobs, even in the private sector.

Again, please give a detailed explanation describing how private sector workers will benefit from the demise of public unions. Please, think about the consequences of what you are advocating for, even for yourself!

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]CA Renter: It’s not a question of “they get this pay or these benefits” and we (private sector workers like myself) don’t – the problem is WE have to pay for it.

As you pointed out, were already being squeezed by corporations and gov’t policies dictated by those same corporations; the last thing we need is to pay for untold #’s of fat cat gov’t workers (and utility workers as well) golden pensions and overly generous benefits.

And let’s not lump all unions in the same basket, I fully support unions in the private sector, but not public sector unions. Between the public employee unions and the large number of politicians in their pockets Joe 6-Pack doesn’t stand a chance. Public employee unions don’t need to go away, they just need to make SIGNIFICANT concessions.

By the way, I already compete in the global labor market, unlike most gov’t workers.

And just b/c an argument doesn’t align with your views does not make it illogical or poorly reasoned.[/quote]

WE have to pay for everything — in the private and public sectors. We (consumers) pay for the executives’ compensation, too!

I don’t like to pay the high prices companies charge because they have huge marketing costs (paying athletes and entertainers millions of dollars) or pay huge bonuses to their executives, but I still have to (don’t start with the “you have a choice” nonsense, because all too often, we don’t).

I hate to pay for wars that are fought to enrich the few at the expense of many. I hate paying for our huge defense budget. I hate paying for deadbeats to stay in houses they never should have bought in the first place. I hate paying for illegal immigrants who come here to take jobs from Americans. I HATE, more than anything in the world, paying for the “revival” of the financial sector, and all the related thugs who do NOTHING productive for society, but suck up a HUGE portion of our economy, and are responsible for the shrinking of our middle class.

We all have to pay for things we don’t like, but at least with the union workers, the vast majority of them make our society a safer, better, more comfortable place where people are free to transact business instead of having to worry about day-to-day survival (as seen in countries with poorly paid public workers). The paychecks of those workers are immediately circulated back into the economy — with NO debt offset (this cannot be overstated). When money goes to the very top, it can go overseas or be loaned out so that regular working people have to pay it back, WITH INTEREST. Shifting money to the top 10% does NOT improve our economy and does NOT make our local communities thrive.

Those union workers ARE the Joe Sixpacks of this country. You’re not at all grasping why private sector workers are falling behind. You’re looking in the wrong direction. Like rats on a sinking ship, we are turning against each other, rather than building ourselves up. We need to bring the private sector UP to where they belong, not drag the unions down.

BTW, you are not competing with global labor. Just wait until the unions collapse. They’ve been fighting to protect American jobs, even in the private sector.

Again, please give a detailed explanation describing how private sector workers will benefit from the demise of public unions. Please, think about the consequences of what you are advocating for, even for yourself!

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]CA Renter: It’s not a question of “they get this pay or these benefits” and we (private sector workers like myself) don’t – the problem is WE have to pay for it.

As you pointed out, were already being squeezed by corporations and gov’t policies dictated by those same corporations; the last thing we need is to pay for untold #’s of fat cat gov’t workers (and utility workers as well) golden pensions and overly generous benefits.

And let’s not lump all unions in the same basket, I fully support unions in the private sector, but not public sector unions. Between the public employee unions and the large number of politicians in their pockets Joe 6-Pack doesn’t stand a chance. Public employee unions don’t need to go away, they just need to make SIGNIFICANT concessions.

By the way, I already compete in the global labor market, unlike most gov’t workers.

And just b/c an argument doesn’t align with your views does not make it illogical or poorly reasoned.[/quote]

WE have to pay for everything — in the private and public sectors. We (consumers) pay for the executives’ compensation, too!

I don’t like to pay the high prices companies charge because they have huge marketing costs (paying athletes and entertainers millions of dollars) or pay huge bonuses to their executives, but I still have to (don’t start with the “you have a choice” nonsense, because all too often, we don’t).

I hate to pay for wars that are fought to enrich the few at the expense of many. I hate paying for our huge defense budget. I hate paying for deadbeats to stay in houses they never should have bought in the first place. I hate paying for illegal immigrants who come here to take jobs from Americans. I HATE, more than anything in the world, paying for the “revival” of the financial sector, and all the related thugs who do NOTHING productive for society, but suck up a HUGE portion of our economy, and are responsible for the shrinking of our middle class.

We all have to pay for things we don’t like, but at least with the union workers, the vast majority of them make our society a safer, better, more comfortable place where people are free to transact business instead of having to worry about day-to-day survival (as seen in countries with poorly paid public workers). The paychecks of those workers are immediately circulated back into the economy — with NO debt offset (this cannot be overstated). When money goes to the very top, it can go overseas or be loaned out so that regular working people have to pay it back, WITH INTEREST. Shifting money to the top 10% does NOT improve our economy and does NOT make our local communities thrive.

Those union workers ARE the Joe Sixpacks of this country. You’re not at all grasping why private sector workers are falling behind. You’re looking in the wrong direction. Like rats on a sinking ship, we are turning against each other, rather than building ourselves up. We need to bring the private sector UP to where they belong, not drag the unions down.

BTW, you are not competing with global labor. Just wait until the unions collapse. They’ve been fighting to protect American jobs, even in the private sector.

Again, please give a detailed explanation describing how private sector workers will benefit from the demise of public unions. Please, think about the consequences of what you are advocating for, even for yourself!

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]CA Renter: It’s not a question of “they get this pay or these benefits” and we (private sector workers like myself) don’t – the problem is WE have to pay for it.

As you pointed out, were already being squeezed by corporations and gov’t policies dictated by those same corporations; the last thing we need is to pay for untold #’s of fat cat gov’t workers (and utility workers as well) golden pensions and overly generous benefits.

And let’s not lump all unions in the same basket, I fully support unions in the private sector, but not public sector unions. Between the public employee unions and the large number of politicians in their pockets Joe 6-Pack doesn’t stand a chance. Public employee unions don’t need to go away, they just need to make SIGNIFICANT concessions.

By the way, I already compete in the global labor market, unlike most gov’t workers.

And just b/c an argument doesn’t align with your views does not make it illogical or poorly reasoned.[/quote]

WE have to pay for everything — in the private and public sectors. We (consumers) pay for the executives’ compensation, too!

I don’t like to pay the high prices companies charge because they have huge marketing costs (paying athletes and entertainers millions of dollars) or pay huge bonuses to their executives, but I still have to (don’t start with the “you have a choice” nonsense, because all too often, we don’t).

I hate to pay for wars that are fought to enrich the few at the expense of many. I hate paying for our huge defense budget. I hate paying for deadbeats to stay in houses they never should have bought in the first place. I hate paying for illegal immigrants who come here to take jobs from Americans. I HATE, more than anything in the world, paying for the “revival” of the financial sector, and all the related thugs who do NOTHING productive for society, but suck up a HUGE portion of our economy, and are responsible for the shrinking of our middle class.

We all have to pay for things we don’t like, but at least with the union workers, the vast majority of them make our society a safer, better, more comfortable place where people are free to transact business instead of having to worry about day-to-day survival (as seen in countries with poorly paid public workers). The paychecks of those workers are immediately circulated back into the economy — with NO debt offset (this cannot be overstated). When money goes to the very top, it can go overseas or be loaned out so that regular working people have to pay it back, WITH INTEREST. Shifting money to the top 10% does NOT improve our economy and does NOT make our local communities thrive.

Those union workers ARE the Joe Sixpacks of this country. You’re not at all grasping why private sector workers are falling behind. You’re looking in the wrong direction. Like rats on a sinking ship, we are turning against each other, rather than building ourselves up. We need to bring the private sector UP to where they belong, not drag the unions down.

BTW, you are not competing with global labor. Just wait until the unions collapse. They’ve been fighting to protect American jobs, even in the private sector.

Again, please give a detailed explanation describing how private sector workers will benefit from the demise of public unions. Please, think about the consequences of what you are advocating for, even for yourself!

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]CA Renter: It’s not a question of “they get this pay or these benefits” and we (private sector workers like myself) don’t – the problem is WE have to pay for it.

As you pointed out, were already being squeezed by corporations and gov’t policies dictated by those same corporations; the last thing we need is to pay for untold #’s of fat cat gov’t workers (and utility workers as well) golden pensions and overly generous benefits.

And let’s not lump all unions in the same basket, I fully support unions in the private sector, but not public sector unions. Between the public employee unions and the large number of politicians in their pockets Joe 6-Pack doesn’t stand a chance. Public employee unions don’t need to go away, they just need to make SIGNIFICANT concessions.

By the way, I already compete in the global labor market, unlike most gov’t workers.

And just b/c an argument doesn’t align with your views does not make it illogical or poorly reasoned.[/quote]

WE have to pay for everything — in the private and public sectors. We (consumers) pay for the executives’ compensation, too!

I don’t like to pay the high prices companies charge because they have huge marketing costs (paying athletes and entertainers millions of dollars) or pay huge bonuses to their executives, but I still have to (don’t start with the “you have a choice” nonsense, because all too often, we don’t).

I hate to pay for wars that are fought to enrich the few at the expense of many. I hate paying for our huge defense budget. I hate paying for deadbeats to stay in houses they never should have bought in the first place. I hate paying for illegal immigrants who come here to take jobs from Americans. I HATE, more than anything in the world, paying for the “revival” of the financial sector, and all the related thugs who do NOTHING productive for society, but suck up a HUGE portion of our economy, and are responsible for the shrinking of our middle class.

We all have to pay for things we don’t like, but at least with the union workers, the vast majority of them make our society a safer, better, more comfortable place where people are free to transact business instead of having to worry about day-to-day survival (as seen in countries with poorly paid public workers). The paychecks of those workers are immediately circulated back into the economy — with NO debt offset (this cannot be overstated). When money goes to the very top, it can go overseas or be loaned out so that regular working people have to pay it back, WITH INTEREST. Shifting money to the top 10% does NOT improve our economy and does NOT make our local communities thrive.

Those union workers ARE the Joe Sixpacks of this country. You’re not at all grasping why private sector workers are falling behind. You’re looking in the wrong direction. Like rats on a sinking ship, we are turning against each other, rather than building ourselves up. We need to bring the private sector UP to where they belong, not drag the unions down.

BTW, you are not competing with global labor. Just wait until the unions collapse. They’ve been fighting to protect American jobs, even in the private sector.

Again, please give a detailed explanation describing how private sector workers will benefit from the demise of public unions. Please, think about the consequences of what you are advocating for, even for yourself!

[paramount]

CA Renter: Yes, in the private sector you are correct about the benefits of unions; and in the private sector I would love to see unions make a comeback. I understand fully that the gov’t started breaking the backs of unions back in the 50’s in the name of communism.

The big difference is that private sector unions and their members are not tax payer supported.

[paramount]

CA Renter: Yes, in the private sector you are correct about the benefits of unions; and in the private sector I would love to see unions make a comeback. I understand fully that the gov’t started breaking the backs of unions back in the 50’s in the name of communism.

The big difference is that private sector unions and their members are not tax payer supported.

[paramount]

CA Renter: Yes, in the private sector you are correct about the benefits of unions; and in the private sector I would love to see unions make a comeback. I understand fully that the gov’t started breaking the backs of unions back in the 50’s in the name of communism.

The big difference is that private sector unions and their members are not tax payer supported.

[paramount]

CA Renter: Yes, in the private sector you are correct about the benefits of unions; and in the private sector I would love to see unions make a comeback. I understand fully that the gov’t started breaking the backs of unions back in the 50’s in the name of communism.

The big difference is that private sector unions and their members are not tax payer supported.

[Author]

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