The case for ending housing finance subsidies

[SK in CV]

[quote=captcha]
That hurts 🙂

The government increases what it takes and all of the sudden the money that it does not take becomes a subsidy? I am not saying that taxing interest on mortgage is unfair way of covering the expenses incurred by the government, but that deduction is not something given to people. It is something not yet taken away from them.[/quote]

1st, it was a subsidy for all debt when all interest was deductible. The remaining deductions for mortgage and other interest is still a subsidy. (The argument used in the mid-80’s when the elimination of the personal interest deduction was proposed is that it was a subsidy for borrowers who went into debt.)

2nd, your argument would seem to support never reducing government entitlements or expenditures. So social security can never be reduced, medicaid cutbacks are out of the question, the Earned Income Credit must be permanent, reduction of college education funding should have been opposed, and eliminations of government employee retirement plans is yet again, the government taking something away. Is that really the argument you want to make?

[outtamojo]

Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.

[outtamojo]

Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.

[outtamojo]

Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.

[outtamojo]

Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.

[outtamojo]

Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=CardiffBaseball][quote=eavesdropper] I’m perfectly willing to pay taxes on my entire income when corporations and the rich begin to do the same. Hell, at this point, I’d be happy if companies like Exxon and GE would pay corporate income tax on SOME of their profits.[/quote]

True but can we also at least raise taxes on the poor? Dammit what Jesus doesn’t realize is that it’s the Meek who are the problem.

My sister has never really made much scratch, I used to do her taxes for her. I swear with EIC and everything else she was actually taking monies out of the system. Of course I don’t begrudge her that money, but that has to be a massive strain on the budget.[/quote]

CB, hold on for one cotton-pickin’ minute, and make sure your Jesus facts are up-to-date. It’s that damn liberal Jesus who needs to kidnap a clue when it comes to losers like the Meek.

Tea Party Jesus has already gone and deleted the Meek from the Beatitudes. That way, Those Who Are Persecuted For Righteousness’ Sake won’t have to share the Kingdom of Heaven.

It’s only fair, if you think about it. Grover Norquist says they pay 96% of all Kingdom taxes.

[quote=CardiffBaseball] My sister has never really made much scratch, I used to do her taxes for her. I swear with EIC and everything else she was actually taking monies out of the system. Of course I don’t begrudge her that money, but that has to be a massive strain on the budget.[/quote]

I see your point. (And I apologize for forgetting about the EIC when I was sounding off about middle-class tax cuts/breaks) I can’t speak as to your sister’s case, but lots of times the Federal government “gets screwed out of taxes” because of state and local tax policy, i.e., low-income and even middle-income people in certain areas can pay so much in other taxes that their after-tax income falls to a phenomenally low level. Have you ever looked at the total your sister pays in taxes (state & local income, sales, property, etc.) as a percentage of her total income?

The whole tax system is so fucked up (excuse the expression). For instance, I know a couple in their late 80s who are still living in the house they bought new in 1953. They live on a total income of $1600/month (his SS check), and have to pay utilities (heat, elec, basic cable, water/sewer, phone), insurance (homeowners, auto, Medicare supplement), and food out of that. Unfortunately, they also pay astronomical property/school tax (about $3800/year) even though they only had one child go through the local system, and she graduated in 1970. They live in a 900 sf house in a bad state of repair in a declining lower-class community. A major problem is that, for several decades, local government has been very lax in collecting taxes from all responsible, so they’re unable to reduce the school tax for seniors who want to/have to stay in their long-term homes. This ridiculously high local tax represents 20% of their income, leaving them less than $1300 for all other expenses. And, despite their incredibly low income, they don’t qualify for ANY Federal, state, or local social services, including food stamps, heating assistance, health care benefits, because they own property.

Yet, living all around them are those who do represent a massive drain on the system: single teen moms, able-bodied people pulling in SS disability checks, and 3rd-generation welfare cheat families who are never going to get off the dole, because our congress (BOTH parties) doesn’t seem capable of coming up with a way to convince them to do that.

I’d like to think that couples like I described above are few and far between, but I know better. We don’t take care of the less fortunate in this country. We reward the less motivated instead.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=CardiffBaseball][quote=eavesdropper] I’m perfectly willing to pay taxes on my entire income when corporations and the rich begin to do the same. Hell, at this point, I’d be happy if companies like Exxon and GE would pay corporate income tax on SOME of their profits.[/quote]

True but can we also at least raise taxes on the poor? Dammit what Jesus doesn’t realize is that it’s the Meek who are the problem.

My sister has never really made much scratch, I used to do her taxes for her. I swear with EIC and everything else she was actually taking monies out of the system. Of course I don’t begrudge her that money, but that has to be a massive strain on the budget.[/quote]

CB, hold on for one cotton-pickin’ minute, and make sure your Jesus facts are up-to-date. It’s that damn liberal Jesus who needs to kidnap a clue when it comes to losers like the Meek.

Tea Party Jesus has already gone and deleted the Meek from the Beatitudes. That way, Those Who Are Persecuted For Righteousness’ Sake won’t have to share the Kingdom of Heaven.

It’s only fair, if you think about it. Grover Norquist says they pay 96% of all Kingdom taxes.

[quote=CardiffBaseball] My sister has never really made much scratch, I used to do her taxes for her. I swear with EIC and everything else she was actually taking monies out of the system. Of course I don’t begrudge her that money, but that has to be a massive strain on the budget.[/quote]

I see your point. (And I apologize for forgetting about the EIC when I was sounding off about middle-class tax cuts/breaks) I can’t speak as to your sister’s case, but lots of times the Federal government “gets screwed out of taxes” because of state and local tax policy, i.e., low-income and even middle-income people in certain areas can pay so much in other taxes that their after-tax income falls to a phenomenally low level. Have you ever looked at the total your sister pays in taxes (state & local income, sales, property, etc.) as a percentage of her total income?

The whole tax system is so fucked up (excuse the expression). For instance, I know a couple in their late 80s who are still living in the house they bought new in 1953. They live on a total income of $1600/month (his SS check), and have to pay utilities (heat, elec, basic cable, water/sewer, phone), insurance (homeowners, auto, Medicare supplement), and food out of that. Unfortunately, they also pay astronomical property/school tax (about $3800/year) even though they only had one child go through the local system, and she graduated in 1970. They live in a 900 sf house in a bad state of repair in a declining lower-class community. A major problem is that, for several decades, local government has been very lax in collecting taxes from all responsible, so they’re unable to reduce the school tax for seniors who want to/have to stay in their long-term homes. This ridiculously high local tax represents 20% of their income, leaving them less than $1300 for all other expenses. And, despite their incredibly low income, they don’t qualify for ANY Federal, state, or local social services, including food stamps, heating assistance, health care benefits, because they own property.

Yet, living all around them are those who do represent a massive drain on the system: single teen moms, able-bodied people pulling in SS disability checks, and 3rd-generation welfare cheat families who are never going to get off the dole, because our congress (BOTH parties) doesn’t seem capable of coming up with a way to convince them to do that.

I’d like to think that couples like I described above are few and far between, but I know better. We don’t take care of the less fortunate in this country. We reward the less motivated instead.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=CardiffBaseball][quote=eavesdropper] I’m perfectly willing to pay taxes on my entire income when corporations and the rich begin to do the same. Hell, at this point, I’d be happy if companies like Exxon and GE would pay corporate income tax on SOME of their profits.[/quote]

True but can we also at least raise taxes on the poor? Dammit what Jesus doesn’t realize is that it’s the Meek who are the problem.

My sister has never really made much scratch, I used to do her taxes for her. I swear with EIC and everything else she was actually taking monies out of the system. Of course I don’t begrudge her that money, but that has to be a massive strain on the budget.[/quote]

CB, hold on for one cotton-pickin’ minute, and make sure your Jesus facts are up-to-date. It’s that damn liberal Jesus who needs to kidnap a clue when it comes to losers like the Meek.

Tea Party Jesus has already gone and deleted the Meek from the Beatitudes. That way, Those Who Are Persecuted For Righteousness’ Sake won’t have to share the Kingdom of Heaven.

It’s only fair, if you think about it. Grover Norquist says they pay 96% of all Kingdom taxes.

[quote=CardiffBaseball] My sister has never really made much scratch, I used to do her taxes for her. I swear with EIC and everything else she was actually taking monies out of the system. Of course I don’t begrudge her that money, but that has to be a massive strain on the budget.[/quote]

I see your point. (And I apologize for forgetting about the EIC when I was sounding off about middle-class tax cuts/breaks) I can’t speak as to your sister’s case, but lots of times the Federal government “gets screwed out of taxes” because of state and local tax policy, i.e., low-income and even middle-income people in certain areas can pay so much in other taxes that their after-tax income falls to a phenomenally low level. Have you ever looked at the total your sister pays in taxes (state & local income, sales, property, etc.) as a percentage of her total income?

The whole tax system is so fucked up (excuse the expression). For instance, I know a couple in their late 80s who are still living in the house they bought new in 1953. They live on a total income of $1600/month (his SS check), and have to pay utilities (heat, elec, basic cable, water/sewer, phone), insurance (homeowners, auto, Medicare supplement), and food out of that. Unfortunately, they also pay astronomical property/school tax (about $3800/year) even though they only had one child go through the local system, and she graduated in 1970. They live in a 900 sf house in a bad state of repair in a declining lower-class community. A major problem is that, for several decades, local government has been very lax in collecting taxes from all responsible, so they’re unable to reduce the school tax for seniors who want to/have to stay in their long-term homes. This ridiculously high local tax represents 20% of their income, leaving them less than $1300 for all other expenses. And, despite their incredibly low income, they don’t qualify for ANY Federal, state, or local social services, including food stamps, heating assistance, health care benefits, because they own property.

Yet, living all around them are those who do represent a massive drain on the system: single teen moms, able-bodied people pulling in SS disability checks, and 3rd-generation welfare cheat families who are never going to get off the dole, because our congress (BOTH parties) doesn’t seem capable of coming up with a way to convince them to do that.

I’d like to think that couples like I described above are few and far between, but I know better. We don’t take care of the less fortunate in this country. We reward the less motivated instead.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=CardiffBaseball][quote=eavesdropper] I’m perfectly willing to pay taxes on my entire income when corporations and the rich begin to do the same. Hell, at this point, I’d be happy if companies like Exxon and GE would pay corporate income tax on SOME of their profits.[/quote]

True but can we also at least raise taxes on the poor? Dammit what Jesus doesn’t realize is that it’s the Meek who are the problem.

My sister has never really made much scratch, I used to do her taxes for her. I swear with EIC and everything else she was actually taking monies out of the system. Of course I don’t begrudge her that money, but that has to be a massive strain on the budget.[/quote]

CB, hold on for one cotton-pickin’ minute, and make sure your Jesus facts are up-to-date. It’s that damn liberal Jesus who needs to kidnap a clue when it comes to losers like the Meek.

Tea Party Jesus has already gone and deleted the Meek from the Beatitudes. That way, Those Who Are Persecuted For Righteousness’ Sake won’t have to share the Kingdom of Heaven.

It’s only fair, if you think about it. Grover Norquist says they pay 96% of all Kingdom taxes.

[quote=CardiffBaseball] My sister has never really made much scratch, I used to do her taxes for her. I swear with EIC and everything else she was actually taking monies out of the system. Of course I don’t begrudge her that money, but that has to be a massive strain on the budget.[/quote]

I see your point. (And I apologize for forgetting about the EIC when I was sounding off about middle-class tax cuts/breaks) I can’t speak as to your sister’s case, but lots of times the Federal government “gets screwed out of taxes” because of state and local tax policy, i.e., low-income and even middle-income people in certain areas can pay so much in other taxes that their after-tax income falls to a phenomenally low level. Have you ever looked at the total your sister pays in taxes (state & local income, sales, property, etc.) as a percentage of her total income?

The whole tax system is so fucked up (excuse the expression). For instance, I know a couple in their late 80s who are still living in the house they bought new in 1953. They live on a total income of $1600/month (his SS check), and have to pay utilities (heat, elec, basic cable, water/sewer, phone), insurance (homeowners, auto, Medicare supplement), and food out of that. Unfortunately, they also pay astronomical property/school tax (about $3800/year) even though they only had one child go through the local system, and she graduated in 1970. They live in a 900 sf house in a bad state of repair in a declining lower-class community. A major problem is that, for several decades, local government has been very lax in collecting taxes from all responsible, so they’re unable to reduce the school tax for seniors who want to/have to stay in their long-term homes. This ridiculously high local tax represents 20% of their income, leaving them less than $1300 for all other expenses. And, despite their incredibly low income, they don’t qualify for ANY Federal, state, or local social services, including food stamps, heating assistance, health care benefits, because they own property.

Yet, living all around them are those who do represent a massive drain on the system: single teen moms, able-bodied people pulling in SS disability checks, and 3rd-generation welfare cheat families who are never going to get off the dole, because our congress (BOTH parties) doesn’t seem capable of coming up with a way to convince them to do that.

I’d like to think that couples like I described above are few and far between, but I know better. We don’t take care of the less fortunate in this country. We reward the less motivated instead.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=CardiffBaseball][quote=eavesdropper] I’m perfectly willing to pay taxes on my entire income when corporations and the rich begin to do the same. Hell, at this point, I’d be happy if companies like Exxon and GE would pay corporate income tax on SOME of their profits.[/quote]

True but can we also at least raise taxes on the poor? Dammit what Jesus doesn’t realize is that it’s the Meek who are the problem.

My sister has never really made much scratch, I used to do her taxes for her. I swear with EIC and everything else she was actually taking monies out of the system. Of course I don’t begrudge her that money, but that has to be a massive strain on the budget.[/quote]

CB, hold on for one cotton-pickin’ minute, and make sure your Jesus facts are up-to-date. It’s that damn liberal Jesus who needs to kidnap a clue when it comes to losers like the Meek.

Tea Party Jesus has already gone and deleted the Meek from the Beatitudes. That way, Those Who Are Persecuted For Righteousness’ Sake won’t have to share the Kingdom of Heaven.

It’s only fair, if you think about it. Grover Norquist says they pay 96% of all Kingdom taxes.

[quote=CardiffBaseball] My sister has never really made much scratch, I used to do her taxes for her. I swear with EIC and everything else she was actually taking monies out of the system. Of course I don’t begrudge her that money, but that has to be a massive strain on the budget.[/quote]

I see your point. (And I apologize for forgetting about the EIC when I was sounding off about middle-class tax cuts/breaks) I can’t speak as to your sister’s case, but lots of times the Federal government “gets screwed out of taxes” because of state and local tax policy, i.e., low-income and even middle-income people in certain areas can pay so much in other taxes that their after-tax income falls to a phenomenally low level. Have you ever looked at the total your sister pays in taxes (state & local income, sales, property, etc.) as a percentage of her total income?

The whole tax system is so fucked up (excuse the expression). For instance, I know a couple in their late 80s who are still living in the house they bought new in 1953. They live on a total income of $1600/month (his SS check), and have to pay utilities (heat, elec, basic cable, water/sewer, phone), insurance (homeowners, auto, Medicare supplement), and food out of that. Unfortunately, they also pay astronomical property/school tax (about $3800/year) even though they only had one child go through the local system, and she graduated in 1970. They live in a 900 sf house in a bad state of repair in a declining lower-class community. A major problem is that, for several decades, local government has been very lax in collecting taxes from all responsible, so they’re unable to reduce the school tax for seniors who want to/have to stay in their long-term homes. This ridiculously high local tax represents 20% of their income, leaving them less than $1300 for all other expenses. And, despite their incredibly low income, they don’t qualify for ANY Federal, state, or local social services, including food stamps, heating assistance, health care benefits, because they own property.

Yet, living all around them are those who do represent a massive drain on the system: single teen moms, able-bodied people pulling in SS disability checks, and 3rd-generation welfare cheat families who are never going to get off the dole, because our congress (BOTH parties) doesn’t seem capable of coming up with a way to convince them to do that.

I’d like to think that couples like I described above are few and far between, but I know better. We don’t take care of the less fortunate in this country. We reward the less motivated instead.

[CA renter]

[quote=outtamojo]Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.[/quote]

Unless the landlords are in the red every month for the same amount as their property taxes (after deductions are taken into account), then it’s the renters who are paying the property tax — through the landlord.

If the landlords are making a profit, then they are the ones getting something for free.

[CA renter]

[quote=outtamojo]Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.[/quote]

Unless the landlords are in the red every month for the same amount as their property taxes (after deductions are taken into account), then it’s the renters who are paying the property tax — through the landlord.

If the landlords are making a profit, then they are the ones getting something for free.

[CA renter]

[quote=outtamojo]Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.[/quote]

Unless the landlords are in the red every month for the same amount as their property taxes (after deductions are taken into account), then it’s the renters who are paying the property tax — through the landlord.

If the landlords are making a profit, then they are the ones getting something for free.

[CA renter]

[quote=outtamojo]Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.[/quote]

Unless the landlords are in the red every month for the same amount as their property taxes (after deductions are taken into account), then it’s the renters who are paying the property tax — through the landlord.

If the landlords are making a profit, then they are the ones getting something for free.

[Author]

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