Terrorism

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CONCHO]I’d like to hear from all the Islam experts on this thread how many Muslim friends and associates they have had in their lives.[/quote]

CONCHO: My boss in my first “real” (corporate) job was Lebanese (Muslim) and we grew to be close friends over my eight years there. At present, my company works closely with Muslims in Egypt, India, Singapore, Iraq, etc on our overseas operations and domestically we work with or employ dozens more, largely in engineering or design capacities.

On a personal basis, I’ve had similar conversations on the topics we’re discussing here dozens of times. Sometimes collegial, sometimes rancorous. One of the most interesting conversations I’ve been a part of involved an Iranian structural engineer and an Egyptian mechanical engineer and covered the rise and fall of the Persian and Egyptian empires and the differences between Persian and Arabic cultures. It was not only educational and entertaining, but it showed how many Persians view the Arab world (in a disdainful light, to say the least), and the Western world (you can probably guess).

[KSMountain]

The fatwa against Salman Rushdie has been renewed, not repealed, by the Iranian government.

Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia.

Where the taliban is in power, girls are not allowed to go to school and women are not allowed to go outside without a male relative.

It was the taliban who destroyed the ancient giant stone monuments at Bamiyan because they of another faith.

I think it’s pretty hard to find another major religion *currently* acting that way.

As I said before, Islam’s mandate to equate religion and state is really antithetical to the concept of separation of church and state, which I happen to think is a really good idea.

I don’t consider myself a “preacher of hate” (thanks Arraya). I don’t wish to hate or bucketize a group of 1 billion+ people.

I do however think Islam the religion needs to make some major adjustments to become compatible with today’s world – unless you think it is *the west* that just needs to abandon their laws and adopt sharia.

[KSMountain]

The fatwa against Salman Rushdie has been renewed, not repealed, by the Iranian government.

Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia.

Where the taliban is in power, girls are not allowed to go to school and women are not allowed to go outside without a male relative.

It was the taliban who destroyed the ancient giant stone monuments at Bamiyan because they of another faith.

I think it’s pretty hard to find another major religion *currently* acting that way.

As I said before, Islam’s mandate to equate religion and state is really antithetical to the concept of separation of church and state, which I happen to think is a really good idea.

I don’t consider myself a “preacher of hate” (thanks Arraya). I don’t wish to hate or bucketize a group of 1 billion+ people.

I do however think Islam the religion needs to make some major adjustments to become compatible with today’s world – unless you think it is *the west* that just needs to abandon their laws and adopt sharia.

[KSMountain]

The fatwa against Salman Rushdie has been renewed, not repealed, by the Iranian government.

Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia.

Where the taliban is in power, girls are not allowed to go to school and women are not allowed to go outside without a male relative.

It was the taliban who destroyed the ancient giant stone monuments at Bamiyan because they of another faith.

I think it’s pretty hard to find another major religion *currently* acting that way.

As I said before, Islam’s mandate to equate religion and state is really antithetical to the concept of separation of church and state, which I happen to think is a really good idea.

I don’t consider myself a “preacher of hate” (thanks Arraya). I don’t wish to hate or bucketize a group of 1 billion+ people.

I do however think Islam the religion needs to make some major adjustments to become compatible with today’s world – unless you think it is *the west* that just needs to abandon their laws and adopt sharia.

[KSMountain]

The fatwa against Salman Rushdie has been renewed, not repealed, by the Iranian government.

Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia.

Where the taliban is in power, girls are not allowed to go to school and women are not allowed to go outside without a male relative.

It was the taliban who destroyed the ancient giant stone monuments at Bamiyan because they of another faith.

I think it’s pretty hard to find another major religion *currently* acting that way.

As I said before, Islam’s mandate to equate religion and state is really antithetical to the concept of separation of church and state, which I happen to think is a really good idea.

I don’t consider myself a “preacher of hate” (thanks Arraya). I don’t wish to hate or bucketize a group of 1 billion+ people.

I do however think Islam the religion needs to make some major adjustments to become compatible with today’s world – unless you think it is *the west* that just needs to abandon their laws and adopt sharia.

[KSMountain]

The fatwa against Salman Rushdie has been renewed, not repealed, by the Iranian government.

Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia.

Where the taliban is in power, girls are not allowed to go to school and women are not allowed to go outside without a male relative.

It was the taliban who destroyed the ancient giant stone monuments at Bamiyan because they of another faith.

I think it’s pretty hard to find another major religion *currently* acting that way.

As I said before, Islam’s mandate to equate religion and state is really antithetical to the concept of separation of church and state, which I happen to think is a really good idea.

I don’t consider myself a “preacher of hate” (thanks Arraya). I don’t wish to hate or bucketize a group of 1 billion+ people.

I do however think Islam the religion needs to make some major adjustments to become compatible with today’s world – unless you think it is *the west* that just needs to abandon their laws and adopt sharia.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CONCHO]I’d like to hear from all the Islam experts on this thread how many Muslim friends and associates they have had in their lives.[/quote]

Not an expert.
Had a couple Muslim friends in highschool.
Had about 7-10 in college (depending on who was dating who at the time).

I live in Normal Heights where it hits North Park.
Anyone living there knows they have a lot of Muslim neigbors.
I’ve had a few Muslim clients.
One, ironically, sells pipes and Bob Marley stuff.
I studied near east religion through history in college as part of a 2 year history course at UCSD.
Got me interested in comparative religion.
That became part of my curriculum in anthropology and is what led me to spend time in Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist sections of Asia.

BTW: I love the Bikaneri desert between Pakistan and India. There is nothing quite so ungainly and surreal as a big-ass male camel rolling onto his back like a dog to scratch his hump.

Currently I have only person I would count as a friend who is Muslim. Unfortunately, he does not drink so I don’t spend a lot of time hanging out with him socially.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CONCHO]I’d like to hear from all the Islam experts on this thread how many Muslim friends and associates they have had in their lives.[/quote]

Not an expert.
Had a couple Muslim friends in highschool.
Had about 7-10 in college (depending on who was dating who at the time).

I live in Normal Heights where it hits North Park.
Anyone living there knows they have a lot of Muslim neigbors.
I’ve had a few Muslim clients.
One, ironically, sells pipes and Bob Marley stuff.
I studied near east religion through history in college as part of a 2 year history course at UCSD.
Got me interested in comparative religion.
That became part of my curriculum in anthropology and is what led me to spend time in Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist sections of Asia.

BTW: I love the Bikaneri desert between Pakistan and India. There is nothing quite so ungainly and surreal as a big-ass male camel rolling onto his back like a dog to scratch his hump.

Currently I have only person I would count as a friend who is Muslim. Unfortunately, he does not drink so I don’t spend a lot of time hanging out with him socially.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CONCHO]I’d like to hear from all the Islam experts on this thread how many Muslim friends and associates they have had in their lives.[/quote]

Not an expert.
Had a couple Muslim friends in highschool.
Had about 7-10 in college (depending on who was dating who at the time).

I live in Normal Heights where it hits North Park.
Anyone living there knows they have a lot of Muslim neigbors.
I’ve had a few Muslim clients.
One, ironically, sells pipes and Bob Marley stuff.
I studied near east religion through history in college as part of a 2 year history course at UCSD.
Got me interested in comparative religion.
That became part of my curriculum in anthropology and is what led me to spend time in Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist sections of Asia.

BTW: I love the Bikaneri desert between Pakistan and India. There is nothing quite so ungainly and surreal as a big-ass male camel rolling onto his back like a dog to scratch his hump.

Currently I have only person I would count as a friend who is Muslim. Unfortunately, he does not drink so I don’t spend a lot of time hanging out with him socially.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CONCHO]I’d like to hear from all the Islam experts on this thread how many Muslim friends and associates they have had in their lives.[/quote]

Not an expert.
Had a couple Muslim friends in highschool.
Had about 7-10 in college (depending on who was dating who at the time).

I live in Normal Heights where it hits North Park.
Anyone living there knows they have a lot of Muslim neigbors.
I’ve had a few Muslim clients.
One, ironically, sells pipes and Bob Marley stuff.
I studied near east religion through history in college as part of a 2 year history course at UCSD.
Got me interested in comparative religion.
That became part of my curriculum in anthropology and is what led me to spend time in Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist sections of Asia.

BTW: I love the Bikaneri desert between Pakistan and India. There is nothing quite so ungainly and surreal as a big-ass male camel rolling onto his back like a dog to scratch his hump.

Currently I have only person I would count as a friend who is Muslim. Unfortunately, he does not drink so I don’t spend a lot of time hanging out with him socially.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CONCHO]I’d like to hear from all the Islam experts on this thread how many Muslim friends and associates they have had in their lives.[/quote]

Not an expert.
Had a couple Muslim friends in highschool.
Had about 7-10 in college (depending on who was dating who at the time).

I live in Normal Heights where it hits North Park.
Anyone living there knows they have a lot of Muslim neigbors.
I’ve had a few Muslim clients.
One, ironically, sells pipes and Bob Marley stuff.
I studied near east religion through history in college as part of a 2 year history course at UCSD.
Got me interested in comparative religion.
That became part of my curriculum in anthropology and is what led me to spend time in Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist sections of Asia.

BTW: I love the Bikaneri desert between Pakistan and India. There is nothing quite so ungainly and surreal as a big-ass male camel rolling onto his back like a dog to scratch his hump.

Currently I have only person I would count as a friend who is Muslim. Unfortunately, he does not drink so I don’t spend a lot of time hanging out with him socially.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]The early Christian (what I would call Catholic) church was heavily persecuted and prosecuted under Roman rule (it was a proscribed faith and practiced under pain of death) and yet Christianity not only emerged from this as a peaceful faith, it went on to convert the very empire that subjugated it (becoming the Holy Roman Empire in the bargain).

Islam had similar beginnings, although starting out later than the early Christian/Catholic church (7th century, if I’m not mistaken). Once it gained a foothold, it spread quite rapidly (almost virally) and was “evangelized” at sword point. Its gains were predominantly martial and it rapidly overtook Christianity in terms of “preparing the way of the Lord” (in this case, Allah).[/quote]

Okay a couple of things.
Calling the Holy Roman Empire a descendant of the Roman Empire is like calling Hitler the new Roman Emperor.
There is a literal line there in both cases but its misleading and in both cases not really related.
Germans don’t typically come from Italy.
The Germans (not the Deutch-or Teutonic-Germans of HRE) led by Odoacer who deposed Emperor Romulus Augustus in 476 did not then go on to abandon Rome and found the HRE (500 years later). Like Mike Meyers says: Neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.

Second, what I was saying was that Christianity came about as a resistance movement advocating peace.

Islam was born when there was no oppressive empire in need a of a resistance movement and instead there was a hunger for the solidarity of yore.

Think of it as the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek.
One is bringing the savages into the fold of the new unified and “civilized” polity (like Kirk or Muhammed).
The other is fomenting rebellion against a cruel empire through a moral shift (Jedi/rebels/Jesus).

Now that I have officially insulted world religions as well as my own cultish love of all things sci fi, I am curious as to the thoughts of others.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]The early Christian (what I would call Catholic) church was heavily persecuted and prosecuted under Roman rule (it was a proscribed faith and practiced under pain of death) and yet Christianity not only emerged from this as a peaceful faith, it went on to convert the very empire that subjugated it (becoming the Holy Roman Empire in the bargain).

Islam had similar beginnings, although starting out later than the early Christian/Catholic church (7th century, if I’m not mistaken). Once it gained a foothold, it spread quite rapidly (almost virally) and was “evangelized” at sword point. Its gains were predominantly martial and it rapidly overtook Christianity in terms of “preparing the way of the Lord” (in this case, Allah).[/quote]

Okay a couple of things.
Calling the Holy Roman Empire a descendant of the Roman Empire is like calling Hitler the new Roman Emperor.
There is a literal line there in both cases but its misleading and in both cases not really related.
Germans don’t typically come from Italy.
The Germans (not the Deutch-or Teutonic-Germans of HRE) led by Odoacer who deposed Emperor Romulus Augustus in 476 did not then go on to abandon Rome and found the HRE (500 years later). Like Mike Meyers says: Neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.

Second, what I was saying was that Christianity came about as a resistance movement advocating peace.

Islam was born when there was no oppressive empire in need a of a resistance movement and instead there was a hunger for the solidarity of yore.

Think of it as the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek.
One is bringing the savages into the fold of the new unified and “civilized” polity (like Kirk or Muhammed).
The other is fomenting rebellion against a cruel empire through a moral shift (Jedi/rebels/Jesus).

Now that I have officially insulted world religions as well as my own cultish love of all things sci fi, I am curious as to the thoughts of others.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]The early Christian (what I would call Catholic) church was heavily persecuted and prosecuted under Roman rule (it was a proscribed faith and practiced under pain of death) and yet Christianity not only emerged from this as a peaceful faith, it went on to convert the very empire that subjugated it (becoming the Holy Roman Empire in the bargain).

Islam had similar beginnings, although starting out later than the early Christian/Catholic church (7th century, if I’m not mistaken). Once it gained a foothold, it spread quite rapidly (almost virally) and was “evangelized” at sword point. Its gains were predominantly martial and it rapidly overtook Christianity in terms of “preparing the way of the Lord” (in this case, Allah).[/quote]

Okay a couple of things.
Calling the Holy Roman Empire a descendant of the Roman Empire is like calling Hitler the new Roman Emperor.
There is a literal line there in both cases but its misleading and in both cases not really related.
Germans don’t typically come from Italy.
The Germans (not the Deutch-or Teutonic-Germans of HRE) led by Odoacer who deposed Emperor Romulus Augustus in 476 did not then go on to abandon Rome and found the HRE (500 years later). Like Mike Meyers says: Neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.

Second, what I was saying was that Christianity came about as a resistance movement advocating peace.

Islam was born when there was no oppressive empire in need a of a resistance movement and instead there was a hunger for the solidarity of yore.

Think of it as the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek.
One is bringing the savages into the fold of the new unified and “civilized” polity (like Kirk or Muhammed).
The other is fomenting rebellion against a cruel empire through a moral shift (Jedi/rebels/Jesus).

Now that I have officially insulted world religions as well as my own cultish love of all things sci fi, I am curious as to the thoughts of others.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]The early Christian (what I would call Catholic) church was heavily persecuted and prosecuted under Roman rule (it was a proscribed faith and practiced under pain of death) and yet Christianity not only emerged from this as a peaceful faith, it went on to convert the very empire that subjugated it (becoming the Holy Roman Empire in the bargain).

Islam had similar beginnings, although starting out later than the early Christian/Catholic church (7th century, if I’m not mistaken). Once it gained a foothold, it spread quite rapidly (almost virally) and was “evangelized” at sword point. Its gains were predominantly martial and it rapidly overtook Christianity in terms of “preparing the way of the Lord” (in this case, Allah).[/quote]

Okay a couple of things.
Calling the Holy Roman Empire a descendant of the Roman Empire is like calling Hitler the new Roman Emperor.
There is a literal line there in both cases but its misleading and in both cases not really related.
Germans don’t typically come from Italy.
The Germans (not the Deutch-or Teutonic-Germans of HRE) led by Odoacer who deposed Emperor Romulus Augustus in 476 did not then go on to abandon Rome and found the HRE (500 years later). Like Mike Meyers says: Neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.

Second, what I was saying was that Christianity came about as a resistance movement advocating peace.

Islam was born when there was no oppressive empire in need a of a resistance movement and instead there was a hunger for the solidarity of yore.

Think of it as the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek.
One is bringing the savages into the fold of the new unified and “civilized” polity (like Kirk or Muhammed).
The other is fomenting rebellion against a cruel empire through a moral shift (Jedi/rebels/Jesus).

Now that I have officially insulted world religions as well as my own cultish love of all things sci fi, I am curious as to the thoughts of others.

[Author]

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