Terrorism

[sdduuuude]

[quote=surveyor]I would submit sd that the killing of those people at Ft. Hood was the terrorism act itself intended to force the U.S. to withdraw from Afghanistan and Iraq (and from the Middle East itself). In that context it should be called as it is, terrorism.[/quote]

A reasonable comment. I can’t say I’m comfortable with an implied demand. Apparently, you are. We can leave it at that – I think now we understand each other, at least.

He may very well fancy himself a terrorist but I, for one, don’t quite see it.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
War, by its nature, is a filthy, nasty business and between trying to get soldiers to kill and rationalizing that same killing, pretty much anything goes in the “motivational” department. As a Catholic and an American, I’m alternately horrified and proud of those two histories. But both the Mother Church and the US Government are made up of people and thus flawed and fallible. Just like I am.[/quote]

I respect your candor and your willingness to admit things as they are — very flawed. Life is full of paradoxes.

One minute, we should do the right thing, no matter what. The next minute, pragmatism and expediency will do.

One minute war is for resources acquisition, the next minute it’s to protect freedom. I believe that the freedom part is more than not part of the motivational aspect.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
War, by its nature, is a filthy, nasty business and between trying to get soldiers to kill and rationalizing that same killing, pretty much anything goes in the “motivational” department. As a Catholic and an American, I’m alternately horrified and proud of those two histories. But both the Mother Church and the US Government are made up of people and thus flawed and fallible. Just like I am.[/quote]

I respect your candor and your willingness to admit things as they are — very flawed. Life is full of paradoxes.

One minute, we should do the right thing, no matter what. The next minute, pragmatism and expediency will do.

One minute war is for resources acquisition, the next minute it’s to protect freedom. I believe that the freedom part is more than not part of the motivational aspect.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
War, by its nature, is a filthy, nasty business and between trying to get soldiers to kill and rationalizing that same killing, pretty much anything goes in the “motivational” department. As a Catholic and an American, I’m alternately horrified and proud of those two histories. But both the Mother Church and the US Government are made up of people and thus flawed and fallible. Just like I am.[/quote]

I respect your candor and your willingness to admit things as they are — very flawed. Life is full of paradoxes.

One minute, we should do the right thing, no matter what. The next minute, pragmatism and expediency will do.

One minute war is for resources acquisition, the next minute it’s to protect freedom. I believe that the freedom part is more than not part of the motivational aspect.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
War, by its nature, is a filthy, nasty business and between trying to get soldiers to kill and rationalizing that same killing, pretty much anything goes in the “motivational” department. As a Catholic and an American, I’m alternately horrified and proud of those two histories. But both the Mother Church and the US Government are made up of people and thus flawed and fallible. Just like I am.[/quote]

I respect your candor and your willingness to admit things as they are — very flawed. Life is full of paradoxes.

One minute, we should do the right thing, no matter what. The next minute, pragmatism and expediency will do.

One minute war is for resources acquisition, the next minute it’s to protect freedom. I believe that the freedom part is more than not part of the motivational aspect.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
War, by its nature, is a filthy, nasty business and between trying to get soldiers to kill and rationalizing that same killing, pretty much anything goes in the “motivational” department. As a Catholic and an American, I’m alternately horrified and proud of those two histories. But both the Mother Church and the US Government are made up of people and thus flawed and fallible. Just like I am.[/quote]

I respect your candor and your willingness to admit things as they are — very flawed. Life is full of paradoxes.

One minute, we should do the right thing, no matter what. The next minute, pragmatism and expediency will do.

One minute war is for resources acquisition, the next minute it’s to protect freedom. I believe that the freedom part is more than not part of the motivational aspect.

[NotCranky]

Apparently Hasan switched sides. One Obvious possibility is that some lasting fear about the inclusion of Muslims in this country and especially the Military, could come from it. Along with this comes the fear of unwarranted discrimination and other reprisals Muslims must have in the U.S., including in the military . It has probably brought on more fear of reprisals than anything else.
It is possible that those who want an immediate and high profile public conclusion that Hassan was a terrorist may not get satisfaction based on sensitivities to these points. My feeling is that the restraint is good.

[NotCranky]

Apparently Hasan switched sides. One Obvious possibility is that some lasting fear about the inclusion of Muslims in this country and especially the Military, could come from it. Along with this comes the fear of unwarranted discrimination and other reprisals Muslims must have in the U.S., including in the military . It has probably brought on more fear of reprisals than anything else.
It is possible that those who want an immediate and high profile public conclusion that Hassan was a terrorist may not get satisfaction based on sensitivities to these points. My feeling is that the restraint is good.

[NotCranky]

Apparently Hasan switched sides. One Obvious possibility is that some lasting fear about the inclusion of Muslims in this country and especially the Military, could come from it. Along with this comes the fear of unwarranted discrimination and other reprisals Muslims must have in the U.S., including in the military . It has probably brought on more fear of reprisals than anything else.
It is possible that those who want an immediate and high profile public conclusion that Hassan was a terrorist may not get satisfaction based on sensitivities to these points. My feeling is that the restraint is good.

[NotCranky]

Apparently Hasan switched sides. One Obvious possibility is that some lasting fear about the inclusion of Muslims in this country and especially the Military, could come from it. Along with this comes the fear of unwarranted discrimination and other reprisals Muslims must have in the U.S., including in the military . It has probably brought on more fear of reprisals than anything else.
It is possible that those who want an immediate and high profile public conclusion that Hassan was a terrorist may not get satisfaction based on sensitivities to these points. My feeling is that the restraint is good.

[NotCranky]

Apparently Hasan switched sides. One Obvious possibility is that some lasting fear about the inclusion of Muslims in this country and especially the Military, could come from it. Along with this comes the fear of unwarranted discrimination and other reprisals Muslims must have in the U.S., including in the military . It has probably brought on more fear of reprisals than anything else.
It is possible that those who want an immediate and high profile public conclusion that Hassan was a terrorist may not get satisfaction based on sensitivities to these points. My feeling is that the restraint is good.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Praying for God’s mercy and protection as a Christian is not the same as seeking God’s blessing to kill my enemies[/quote]

I understand this as the case Allan, but would the person dying at the hands of a soldier? If the last thing they saw was a cross hanging from the neck of their killer, what would they think? Is it really any different than a Christian hearing “Allahu Akbar” as his last words?

The point I’m trying to make is that how these symbols are interpreted depends entirely on where you’re coming from. So while hearing “Allahu Akbar” as you die is certainly a horrible thing for a Christian, so too is dying at the hands of a cross-bearing Christian for a Muslim — regardless of intent.[/quote]

Afx: As much as I’d like to disagree with you on this, I can’t. I’m reminded of German soldiers in WWI wearing belt buckles reading “Gott mit uns” (“God is with us”) as they invaded Belgium and then France in 1914.

Hitler repeatedly invoked God, and Germany’s “divine” mission (which, I guess, included killing all the Jews, Gypsies, Slavs and mentally handicapped). Of course, Hitler also admitted privately that he did this solely to engage the German people and didn’t really believe it himself.

One of my COs was a hard shell Baptist who loved Jesus, and hated Communism (I hated Communism, too, but not as a Catholic, but as an American) as a result. This was the same guy that kicked off operations with the expression, “Let’s go break things and hurt people”.

War, by its nature, is a filthy, nasty business and between trying to get soldiers to kill and rationalizing that same killing, pretty much anything goes in the “motivational” department. As a Catholic and an American, I’m alternately horrified and proud of those two histories. But both the Mother Church and the US Government are made up of people and thus flawed and fallible. Just like I am.[/quote]

Okay.
Are you or are you not a great big heeb?

You know they can’t go to heaven, right?

In all seriousness, I don’t pretend to understand the personal moral calculus of joining a volunteer army in a time of peace and then becoming a combatant who (necessarily) is called upon to kill humans.

While we all have our price, it would take quite a bit to get me to go that route.

Still, I am thankful that there are people with guns that protect my rights.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Praying for God’s mercy and protection as a Christian is not the same as seeking God’s blessing to kill my enemies[/quote]

I understand this as the case Allan, but would the person dying at the hands of a soldier? If the last thing they saw was a cross hanging from the neck of their killer, what would they think? Is it really any different than a Christian hearing “Allahu Akbar” as his last words?

The point I’m trying to make is that how these symbols are interpreted depends entirely on where you’re coming from. So while hearing “Allahu Akbar” as you die is certainly a horrible thing for a Christian, so too is dying at the hands of a cross-bearing Christian for a Muslim — regardless of intent.[/quote]

Afx: As much as I’d like to disagree with you on this, I can’t. I’m reminded of German soldiers in WWI wearing belt buckles reading “Gott mit uns” (“God is with us”) as they invaded Belgium and then France in 1914.

Hitler repeatedly invoked God, and Germany’s “divine” mission (which, I guess, included killing all the Jews, Gypsies, Slavs and mentally handicapped). Of course, Hitler also admitted privately that he did this solely to engage the German people and didn’t really believe it himself.

One of my COs was a hard shell Baptist who loved Jesus, and hated Communism (I hated Communism, too, but not as a Catholic, but as an American) as a result. This was the same guy that kicked off operations with the expression, “Let’s go break things and hurt people”.

War, by its nature, is a filthy, nasty business and between trying to get soldiers to kill and rationalizing that same killing, pretty much anything goes in the “motivational” department. As a Catholic and an American, I’m alternately horrified and proud of those two histories. But both the Mother Church and the US Government are made up of people and thus flawed and fallible. Just like I am.[/quote]

Okay.
Are you or are you not a great big heeb?

You know they can’t go to heaven, right?

In all seriousness, I don’t pretend to understand the personal moral calculus of joining a volunteer army in a time of peace and then becoming a combatant who (necessarily) is called upon to kill humans.

While we all have our price, it would take quite a bit to get me to go that route.

Still, I am thankful that there are people with guns that protect my rights.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Praying for God’s mercy and protection as a Christian is not the same as seeking God’s blessing to kill my enemies[/quote]

I understand this as the case Allan, but would the person dying at the hands of a soldier? If the last thing they saw was a cross hanging from the neck of their killer, what would they think? Is it really any different than a Christian hearing “Allahu Akbar” as his last words?

The point I’m trying to make is that how these symbols are interpreted depends entirely on where you’re coming from. So while hearing “Allahu Akbar” as you die is certainly a horrible thing for a Christian, so too is dying at the hands of a cross-bearing Christian for a Muslim — regardless of intent.[/quote]

Afx: As much as I’d like to disagree with you on this, I can’t. I’m reminded of German soldiers in WWI wearing belt buckles reading “Gott mit uns” (“God is with us”) as they invaded Belgium and then France in 1914.

Hitler repeatedly invoked God, and Germany’s “divine” mission (which, I guess, included killing all the Jews, Gypsies, Slavs and mentally handicapped). Of course, Hitler also admitted privately that he did this solely to engage the German people and didn’t really believe it himself.

One of my COs was a hard shell Baptist who loved Jesus, and hated Communism (I hated Communism, too, but not as a Catholic, but as an American) as a result. This was the same guy that kicked off operations with the expression, “Let’s go break things and hurt people”.

War, by its nature, is a filthy, nasty business and between trying to get soldiers to kill and rationalizing that same killing, pretty much anything goes in the “motivational” department. As a Catholic and an American, I’m alternately horrified and proud of those two histories. But both the Mother Church and the US Government are made up of people and thus flawed and fallible. Just like I am.[/quote]

Okay.
Are you or are you not a great big heeb?

You know they can’t go to heaven, right?

In all seriousness, I don’t pretend to understand the personal moral calculus of joining a volunteer army in a time of peace and then becoming a combatant who (necessarily) is called upon to kill humans.

While we all have our price, it would take quite a bit to get me to go that route.

Still, I am thankful that there are people with guns that protect my rights.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Praying for God’s mercy and protection as a Christian is not the same as seeking God’s blessing to kill my enemies[/quote]

I understand this as the case Allan, but would the person dying at the hands of a soldier? If the last thing they saw was a cross hanging from the neck of their killer, what would they think? Is it really any different than a Christian hearing “Allahu Akbar” as his last words?

The point I’m trying to make is that how these symbols are interpreted depends entirely on where you’re coming from. So while hearing “Allahu Akbar” as you die is certainly a horrible thing for a Christian, so too is dying at the hands of a cross-bearing Christian for a Muslim — regardless of intent.[/quote]

Afx: As much as I’d like to disagree with you on this, I can’t. I’m reminded of German soldiers in WWI wearing belt buckles reading “Gott mit uns” (“God is with us”) as they invaded Belgium and then France in 1914.

Hitler repeatedly invoked God, and Germany’s “divine” mission (which, I guess, included killing all the Jews, Gypsies, Slavs and mentally handicapped). Of course, Hitler also admitted privately that he did this solely to engage the German people and didn’t really believe it himself.

One of my COs was a hard shell Baptist who loved Jesus, and hated Communism (I hated Communism, too, but not as a Catholic, but as an American) as a result. This was the same guy that kicked off operations with the expression, “Let’s go break things and hurt people”.

War, by its nature, is a filthy, nasty business and between trying to get soldiers to kill and rationalizing that same killing, pretty much anything goes in the “motivational” department. As a Catholic and an American, I’m alternately horrified and proud of those two histories. But both the Mother Church and the US Government are made up of people and thus flawed and fallible. Just like I am.[/quote]

Okay.
Are you or are you not a great big heeb?

You know they can’t go to heaven, right?

In all seriousness, I don’t pretend to understand the personal moral calculus of joining a volunteer army in a time of peace and then becoming a combatant who (necessarily) is called upon to kill humans.

While we all have our price, it would take quite a bit to get me to go that route.

Still, I am thankful that there are people with guns that protect my rights.

[Author]

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