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FutureSDguy.
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January 24, 2007 at 9:03 PM #44140January 25, 2007 at 2:55 PM #44194
SHILOH
ParticipantDoes Exxon have a conscience?
Exxon handed it’s retiring chariman a $400M retirement package….on top of the $6000 an hour he made while not retired…and he “deserved” this because under his influence Exxon’s stock grew 500%.As an average-income conservative, I was listened to the Bush speech and agreed with him on several issues, but was disappointed that he left out some important issues that are in-your-face glaring issues for an average, tax-paying fiscally responsible person like myself. For example, corporate problems which were picked up in the rebuttal by Webb. At least Webb mentioned the outrageous compensation of corporate heads…clearly the Dems were pointing to domestic issues facing the average US citizen. Do the DEMs really care either? I don’t know, but at least it was said. With all the sentiment Bush tactfully used by having examples of great “average” Americans in the audience…it could not masked the reality that the DEM’s rebuttal was more in touch with American life and concerns.
On issues like healthcare…I remember when Hillary Clinton (during Bill’s first campaign) made health insurance her First Lady platform…Apparently she could not reform it and nothing has happened and it’s only gotten worse. But health insurance CEOs apparently deserve all their getting paid also: http://hcrenewal.blogspot.com/2005/05/how-can-1248-million-year-ceo-make.htmlJanuary 25, 2007 at 3:14 PM #44197Participant“U.N. climate panel: Global warming to raise Earth’s seas for 1,000 years”
I have little confidence in the UN…but this was a study reported in USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2007-01-25-ipcc-report-details_x.htm
January 25, 2007 at 5:31 PM #44203FutureSDguy
ParticipantThere seems to be some spin concerning Al Gore’s often-quoted claim that he invented the internet. Al Gore supporters attempt to rewrite history (along with the results of the Florida election count) by trying to reframe the issue as an urban myth based on a verbal distortion: phrase “took the initiative in creating the internet” was replaced with “invented the internet” by a fellow congress person.
I am sure many are aware of Gore’s habit of exaggerating his merits, or at worse is a compulsive fibber. So it’s easy to believe that he would make such a fabrication. In this case, is it true?
The internet came into being in 1969 at DARPA. Al Gore claimed that as a senator he “took the inititive in creating the internet” (his exact words) but he wasn’t a congressman until 1976. While it is true that he was involved in continuing to support and fund it, so were many other people.
So what people were led to believe what Gore said is a lie, and Gore actually said is also a lie.
January 25, 2007 at 5:48 PM #44205blahblahblah
ParticipantThe internet came into being in 1969 at DARPA.
Ummm, no, ARPANET came into being in 1969. The internetworking protocols were added later, by Bob Kahn and Vint Cerf (more about those guys later). The internet as we know it today, was deployed in 1983 (see the Kahn/Cerf letter below).
I am sure many are aware of Gore’s habit of exaggerating his merits, or at worse is a compulsive fibber. So it’s easy to believe that he would make such a fabrication. In this case, is it true?
Ummm, did you read my post earlier in this thread? Anyway, read what Bob Kahn and Vinton Cerf (the guys who invented TCP/IP, and if you don’t know what that stands for [no looking it up on wikipedia!] then you have no business even posting on this topic) had to say about the former Vice President’s involvement in the development of the internet we all use and enjoy today. I am cutting and pasting this since you obviously didn’t follow the link I posted earlier…
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Al Gore and the InternetBy Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf
Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development.
No one person or even small group of persons exclusively “invented” the Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among people in government and the university community. But as the two people who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore’s contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time.
Last year the Vice President made a straightforward statement on his role. He said: “During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet.” We don’t think, as some people have argued, that Gore intended to claim he “invented” the Internet. Moreover, there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore’s initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and promoting the Internet long before most people were listening. We feel it is timely to offer our perspective.
As far back as the 1970s Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high speed telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the improvement of our educational system. He was the first elected official to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader impact than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship. Though easily forgotten, now, at the time this was an unproven and controversial concept. Our work on the Internet started in 1973 and was based on even earlier work that took place in the mid-late 1960s. But the Internet, as we know it today, was not deployed until 1983. When the Internet was still in the early stages of its deployment, Congressman Gore provided intellectual leadership by helping create the vision of the potential benefits of high speed computing and communication. As an example, he sponsored hearings on how advanced technologies might be put to use in areas like coordinating the response of government agencies to natural disasters and other crises.
As a Senator in the 1980s Gore urged government agencies to consolidate what at the time were several dozen different and unconnected networks into an “Interagency Network.” Working in a bi-partisan manner with officials in Ronald Reagan and George Bush’s administrations, Gore secured the passage of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991. This “Gore Act” supported the National Research and Education Network (NREN) initiative that became one of the major vehicles for the spread of the Internet beyond the field of computer science.
As Vice President Gore promoted building the Internet both up and out, as well as releasing the Internet from the control of the government agencies that spawned it. He served as the major administration proponent for continued investment in advanced computing and networking and private sector initiatives such as Net Day. He was and is a strong proponent of extending access to the network to schools and libraries. Today, approximately 95% of our nation’s schools are on the Internet. Gore provided much-needed political support for the speedy privatization of the Internet when the time arrived for it to become a commercially-driven operation.
There are many factors that have contributed to the Internet’s rapid growth since the later 1980s, not the least of which has been political support for its privatization and continued support for research in advanced networking technology. No one in public life has been more intellectually engaged in helping to create the climate for a thriving Internet than the Vice President. Gore has been a clear champion of this effort, both in the councils of government and with the public at large.
The Vice President deserves credit for his early recognition of high speed computing and communication and for his long-term and consistent articulation of the potential value of the Internet to American citizens and industry and, indeed, to the rest of the world.
January 25, 2007 at 6:27 PM #44207ParticipantThe APRANET evolved into the internet, and I do not see any significant point that divides the two technologies–i.e. it did not “become the internet” at some special point, but rather it happened through the incorporation of various technologies and standardizations such as FTP and email, and, which happened mostly during the 70’s. Nobody is questioning Al Gore’s enthusiasm and support towards the technology. He was attempting to take credit for material development of the internet in an CNN interview when he ran for president, and evidence of that is lacking. He bluffed, and it was called.
It should be completely clear to anyone that when one “takes the initiative in creating something” that that person is the sole propietor behind its existance. Gore could have said “I supported the continued expansion of the internet,” but he did not. The letter by Vinton Cerf, et. al. merely talks about Al Gore’s supportive role in the process of nuturing the expansion. That’s not “creating it” and the subsequent jokes were both rooted in truth and consistent with the general issue of Al Gore not telling truths.
January 25, 2007 at 7:21 PM #44210ParticipantThe APRANET evolved into the internet, and I do not see any significant point that divides the two technologies–i.e. it did not “become the internet” at some special point, but rather it happened through the incorporation of various technologies and standardizations such as FTP and email, and, which happened mostly during the 70’s.
Dude, you’re hopeless. I just showed you the letter from THE GUYS THAT INVENTED THE INTERNET where they write that no other public figure was as instrumental in the internet’s development as Al Gore, yet you still cling to your little fantasy that Gore is a liar and was trying to take credit for their work. And I hate to disappoint you, but the original ARPANET and our modern internet are fundamentally different at their core. The fact that you mention FTP and email show how clueless you are here, those are APPLICATIONS, not networking protocols. And note how you completely disregard the statement from THE GUYS THAT INVENTED THE INTERNET regarding the date of its deployment in 1983, when NCP was completely removed and replaced by TCP/IP on the ARPANET. Without TCP/IP, it’s not the internet. Of course if you knew what IP stood for, you might understand that.
Could Gore have said it better? Sure. But do you hold George Bush to the same high standard when he makes verbal slip-ups? Somehow I doubt it.
January 25, 2007 at 8:19 PM #44211ParticipantThe way you talk and the assumptions you make of my knowledge makes it look like you’re on the losing end of the argument. The letter you post is credible, but it only talks about Gore’s support of the effort that was undertaken by the Dept. of Defense.
FTP is a protocol (hence the P), and happens to also be the name of the application that uses it. Email is a combination of protocols, namely SMTP and POP3. TCP/IP, according to Wiki, was work that was largely done in 1973. Collectively these protocols, along with the physical mediums, define the internet. Al Gore saw that this was a good thing and helped nurture its expansion through funding, but he was not part of its actual R&D. Again, take all of this in context with what Al Gore had said: “I took the INITIATIVE (i.e. I started) of the CREATION (i.e. I was a direct part of its invention) of the internet WHILE I WAS A SENATOR (i.e. 1979 and later)” All three of these points betray the actual facts. He didn’t do that, but rather supported a bill to expand the concurrent use of it.
At the time he made this fallacious statement, the internet exploded into mainstream use–mom and pop were getting on board. The way I see it, he was trying to win votes by capitializing on the popularity of the internet. This is by no means the only case here. Now, as a Gore Apologist, you are probably well aware of lists of documented mistruths and exaggerations, especially in trying to curry the love of voters. He claimed he and his wife were inspirations for the novel Love Story (trying to draw oooohs from soccer moms), which was negated by its author. He claimed he was in the line of fire in Vietnam (trying to appear to be the war hero to voters) when nothing of the sort occurred–in fact he was purposefully kept out of harms way because his job was to be a reporter not a GI. Contrary to what he said, he did not take any part whatsoever in the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform bill (trying to impress those who were interested in taking big money out of politics) because he couldn’t have: he was no longer senator at the time. Those are the ones that I remember; you can find more here: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38dbb84a2e85.htm
January 25, 2007 at 9:18 PM #44214ParticipantSorry dude, but FTP, SMTP, and POP3 are all application layer and they don’t define the internet. Networking protocols are lower layer. And back to the letter from the guys that invented TCP/IP, the internet deployed in 1983, when TCP/IP replaced NCP as the network and transport layer.
Also, I have to point out that you have some dates incorrect and that you’ve also misquoted the former VP. First, the RFCs for TCP/IP weren’t published until 1981; it was near its final form in 1978, though. The work wasn’t “largely done in 1973” but rather was an ongoing design effort for several years in the mid 70s starting around 1973. Also, Gore’s Congressional service began in 1976 in the House; he served there until 1984 when he won his Senate seat.
In your last post, you misquoted Mr. Gore. His actual response was “During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.”
Note that he said Congress, which of course includes the Senate as well as the House.
Also, if you had been following this thread, you’d see that I referred to global warming as “junk science”, so I’m no Gore apologist. I just don’t need to rely on word games and “gotcha politics” for my positions, that’s all. I also don’t like to see people misquoted or history rewritten either. It may be true that Mr. Gore likes to tell whoppers (what politician doesn’t? No new taxes! No nation building! I didn’t inhale!), but in the case of the internet I’ll give him the benefit of a doubt that he just misspoke a little bit.
January 25, 2007 at 9:24 PM #44221PD
ParticipantConcho, you are ignoring the point. Gore’s statement was similar to a bookstore owner claiming to have written a book authored by someone else. Sure, the bookstore owner was selling the book and maybe even promoting it, but he did not write it. It certaily seems to me that Gore MEANT people to take his statement to mean that he was a CREATOR rather than one of many FACILITATORS. Further, I must question whether the creators were Gore supporters or not. They may have fluffed the truth to make it look like Gore did more than he did (I said “may” so don’t get crazy here).
January 25, 2007 at 9:43 PM #44222ParticipantPD, do you really think a seasoned politician like Gore (who defended his house and senate seats successfully many times) would be so stupid as to claim that he CREATED the internet while on the record? I just find that hard to believe, just like I find it difficult to believe that George Bush really thinks that it’s “hard to put food on your family” or any of those other goofy things he’s said. If you put these guys, any of them, under the microscope, you’ll find them saying some silly stuff. This is all just distraction politics that the real guys running the show use to keep us disorganized while they pick our pockets.
January 26, 2007 at 7:16 AM #44230ParticipantThat’s whats so weird about Gore, Concho. He lies when he doesn’t have to. Consider this article:
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