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August 24, 2010 at 11:00 PM #596841August 24, 2010 at 11:17 PM #595791bearishgurlParticipant
[quote=sdrealtor]Driving from Downtown SD to the markets in Hillcrest or Point Loma takes at least 20 minutes with all the traffic lights. It is far from convenient to get around to all those places you mentioned and very little public transportation.
From my suburban hell I drive in 5 to 10 minutes to Albertsons, 2 Vons (formerly 3), one of 2 Henrys, one of 2 Trader Joes, Ralphs, Jimbos, mexican Mom and Pop markets, a killer farmer stand with fresh produce and they are building a Whole Foods. I’m sure I missed a few. I can also get pet food at either Petsmart or Petco or go to one of a few local owned pet stores. If I need care for my kids I can go to a hospital ER in less than 10 minutes, urgent care in less than 5 or just walk two doors down to a peditrician who lives there. I have 2 fabulous libraries within 5 to 10 minutes. I have nice wine stores/wine bars and restaurants I can walk to. There a few golf courses nearby and the beach. I can walk to Target, Barnes and Noble, Borders, Bed, Bath & Beyond or an Apple Store. I find it very difficult to find anything I need that i have to drive more than 5 or 10 minutes to get to.
It seems like my far flung suburban hell has alot more of the conveniences of urban living than Downtown San Diego urban living offers.[/quote]
There ARE nice restaurants to walk to EVERYWHERE in the urban core. Also a golf course in Balboa Park. Trolleys stops every few blocks take you to Old Town, MV and South and East Counties. The #1 bus will take you to all points in Bankers Hill/Hillcrest in 5-10 mins and that is just ONE route that is avail out of a dozen. Hospital ER’s ARE <10 mins. Farmers Market EVERY DAY dtn. Total of four libraries in the urban core, incl. the SD Main. Pet stores would be Loma Portal, a 10-15 min drive. Urgent care is SRS Clinic. Movies in Horton Plaza and Hillcrest (3d incl).
It's just different strokes . . . same County, different jurisdiction, but IMO, dtn SD has better construction, unmatched views, many exceptional lots, etc. Carlsbad, aka "Gridlocked Nirvana," (along with select "ocean view properties") also has its share of low-income housing, stores that accept WIC coupons, illegal-immigrant residents, ESL students enrolled in its schools, residents on public assistance, homeless persons, etc. NO CA CITY IS IMMUNE from any of these "travails."
"NCC" has some fine areas, just as the urban core of SD does, but I don't buy into the "hype" that it has "superior living conditions" in comparison to San Diego's urban core or other preferred points in CA. Seen it, driven it (albeit slo-o-o-owly, due to gridlock - lol) . . . been up and down and all over the state . . . numerous times. Leaving again soon, to go crush grapes π Lived in CA practically all my life and I probably win all age contests around here π All I can say is, different strokes for different folks ;=)
August 24, 2010 at 11:17 PM #595884bearishgurlParticipant[quote=sdrealtor]Driving from Downtown SD to the markets in Hillcrest or Point Loma takes at least 20 minutes with all the traffic lights. It is far from convenient to get around to all those places you mentioned and very little public transportation.
From my suburban hell I drive in 5 to 10 minutes to Albertsons, 2 Vons (formerly 3), one of 2 Henrys, one of 2 Trader Joes, Ralphs, Jimbos, mexican Mom and Pop markets, a killer farmer stand with fresh produce and they are building a Whole Foods. I’m sure I missed a few. I can also get pet food at either Petsmart or Petco or go to one of a few local owned pet stores. If I need care for my kids I can go to a hospital ER in less than 10 minutes, urgent care in less than 5 or just walk two doors down to a peditrician who lives there. I have 2 fabulous libraries within 5 to 10 minutes. I have nice wine stores/wine bars and restaurants I can walk to. There a few golf courses nearby and the beach. I can walk to Target, Barnes and Noble, Borders, Bed, Bath & Beyond or an Apple Store. I find it very difficult to find anything I need that i have to drive more than 5 or 10 minutes to get to.
It seems like my far flung suburban hell has alot more of the conveniences of urban living than Downtown San Diego urban living offers.[/quote]
There ARE nice restaurants to walk to EVERYWHERE in the urban core. Also a golf course in Balboa Park. Trolleys stops every few blocks take you to Old Town, MV and South and East Counties. The #1 bus will take you to all points in Bankers Hill/Hillcrest in 5-10 mins and that is just ONE route that is avail out of a dozen. Hospital ER’s ARE <10 mins. Farmers Market EVERY DAY dtn. Total of four libraries in the urban core, incl. the SD Main. Pet stores would be Loma Portal, a 10-15 min drive. Urgent care is SRS Clinic. Movies in Horton Plaza and Hillcrest (3d incl).
It's just different strokes . . . same County, different jurisdiction, but IMO, dtn SD has better construction, unmatched views, many exceptional lots, etc. Carlsbad, aka "Gridlocked Nirvana," (along with select "ocean view properties") also has its share of low-income housing, stores that accept WIC coupons, illegal-immigrant residents, ESL students enrolled in its schools, residents on public assistance, homeless persons, etc. NO CA CITY IS IMMUNE from any of these "travails."
"NCC" has some fine areas, just as the urban core of SD does, but I don't buy into the "hype" that it has "superior living conditions" in comparison to San Diego's urban core or other preferred points in CA. Seen it, driven it (albeit slo-o-o-owly, due to gridlock - lol) . . . been up and down and all over the state . . . numerous times. Leaving again soon, to go crush grapes π Lived in CA practically all my life and I probably win all age contests around here π All I can say is, different strokes for different folks ;=)
August 24, 2010 at 11:17 PM #596423bearishgurlParticipant[quote=sdrealtor]Driving from Downtown SD to the markets in Hillcrest or Point Loma takes at least 20 minutes with all the traffic lights. It is far from convenient to get around to all those places you mentioned and very little public transportation.
From my suburban hell I drive in 5 to 10 minutes to Albertsons, 2 Vons (formerly 3), one of 2 Henrys, one of 2 Trader Joes, Ralphs, Jimbos, mexican Mom and Pop markets, a killer farmer stand with fresh produce and they are building a Whole Foods. I’m sure I missed a few. I can also get pet food at either Petsmart or Petco or go to one of a few local owned pet stores. If I need care for my kids I can go to a hospital ER in less than 10 minutes, urgent care in less than 5 or just walk two doors down to a peditrician who lives there. I have 2 fabulous libraries within 5 to 10 minutes. I have nice wine stores/wine bars and restaurants I can walk to. There a few golf courses nearby and the beach. I can walk to Target, Barnes and Noble, Borders, Bed, Bath & Beyond or an Apple Store. I find it very difficult to find anything I need that i have to drive more than 5 or 10 minutes to get to.
It seems like my far flung suburban hell has alot more of the conveniences of urban living than Downtown San Diego urban living offers.[/quote]
There ARE nice restaurants to walk to EVERYWHERE in the urban core. Also a golf course in Balboa Park. Trolleys stops every few blocks take you to Old Town, MV and South and East Counties. The #1 bus will take you to all points in Bankers Hill/Hillcrest in 5-10 mins and that is just ONE route that is avail out of a dozen. Hospital ER’s ARE <10 mins. Farmers Market EVERY DAY dtn. Total of four libraries in the urban core, incl. the SD Main. Pet stores would be Loma Portal, a 10-15 min drive. Urgent care is SRS Clinic. Movies in Horton Plaza and Hillcrest (3d incl).
It's just different strokes . . . same County, different jurisdiction, but IMO, dtn SD has better construction, unmatched views, many exceptional lots, etc. Carlsbad, aka "Gridlocked Nirvana," (along with select "ocean view properties") also has its share of low-income housing, stores that accept WIC coupons, illegal-immigrant residents, ESL students enrolled in its schools, residents on public assistance, homeless persons, etc. NO CA CITY IS IMMUNE from any of these "travails."
"NCC" has some fine areas, just as the urban core of SD does, but I don't buy into the "hype" that it has "superior living conditions" in comparison to San Diego's urban core or other preferred points in CA. Seen it, driven it (albeit slo-o-o-owly, due to gridlock - lol) . . . been up and down and all over the state . . . numerous times. Leaving again soon, to go crush grapes π Lived in CA practically all my life and I probably win all age contests around here π All I can say is, different strokes for different folks ;=)
August 24, 2010 at 11:17 PM #596532bearishgurlParticipant[quote=sdrealtor]Driving from Downtown SD to the markets in Hillcrest or Point Loma takes at least 20 minutes with all the traffic lights. It is far from convenient to get around to all those places you mentioned and very little public transportation.
From my suburban hell I drive in 5 to 10 minutes to Albertsons, 2 Vons (formerly 3), one of 2 Henrys, one of 2 Trader Joes, Ralphs, Jimbos, mexican Mom and Pop markets, a killer farmer stand with fresh produce and they are building a Whole Foods. I’m sure I missed a few. I can also get pet food at either Petsmart or Petco or go to one of a few local owned pet stores. If I need care for my kids I can go to a hospital ER in less than 10 minutes, urgent care in less than 5 or just walk two doors down to a peditrician who lives there. I have 2 fabulous libraries within 5 to 10 minutes. I have nice wine stores/wine bars and restaurants I can walk to. There a few golf courses nearby and the beach. I can walk to Target, Barnes and Noble, Borders, Bed, Bath & Beyond or an Apple Store. I find it very difficult to find anything I need that i have to drive more than 5 or 10 minutes to get to.
It seems like my far flung suburban hell has alot more of the conveniences of urban living than Downtown San Diego urban living offers.[/quote]
There ARE nice restaurants to walk to EVERYWHERE in the urban core. Also a golf course in Balboa Park. Trolleys stops every few blocks take you to Old Town, MV and South and East Counties. The #1 bus will take you to all points in Bankers Hill/Hillcrest in 5-10 mins and that is just ONE route that is avail out of a dozen. Hospital ER’s ARE <10 mins. Farmers Market EVERY DAY dtn. Total of four libraries in the urban core, incl. the SD Main. Pet stores would be Loma Portal, a 10-15 min drive. Urgent care is SRS Clinic. Movies in Horton Plaza and Hillcrest (3d incl).
It's just different strokes . . . same County, different jurisdiction, but IMO, dtn SD has better construction, unmatched views, many exceptional lots, etc. Carlsbad, aka "Gridlocked Nirvana," (along with select "ocean view properties") also has its share of low-income housing, stores that accept WIC coupons, illegal-immigrant residents, ESL students enrolled in its schools, residents on public assistance, homeless persons, etc. NO CA CITY IS IMMUNE from any of these "travails."
"NCC" has some fine areas, just as the urban core of SD does, but I don't buy into the "hype" that it has "superior living conditions" in comparison to San Diego's urban core or other preferred points in CA. Seen it, driven it (albeit slo-o-o-owly, due to gridlock - lol) . . . been up and down and all over the state . . . numerous times. Leaving again soon, to go crush grapes π Lived in CA practically all my life and I probably win all age contests around here π All I can say is, different strokes for different folks ;=)
August 24, 2010 at 11:17 PM #596846bearishgurlParticipant[quote=sdrealtor]Driving from Downtown SD to the markets in Hillcrest or Point Loma takes at least 20 minutes with all the traffic lights. It is far from convenient to get around to all those places you mentioned and very little public transportation.
From my suburban hell I drive in 5 to 10 minutes to Albertsons, 2 Vons (formerly 3), one of 2 Henrys, one of 2 Trader Joes, Ralphs, Jimbos, mexican Mom and Pop markets, a killer farmer stand with fresh produce and they are building a Whole Foods. I’m sure I missed a few. I can also get pet food at either Petsmart or Petco or go to one of a few local owned pet stores. If I need care for my kids I can go to a hospital ER in less than 10 minutes, urgent care in less than 5 or just walk two doors down to a peditrician who lives there. I have 2 fabulous libraries within 5 to 10 minutes. I have nice wine stores/wine bars and restaurants I can walk to. There a few golf courses nearby and the beach. I can walk to Target, Barnes and Noble, Borders, Bed, Bath & Beyond or an Apple Store. I find it very difficult to find anything I need that i have to drive more than 5 or 10 minutes to get to.
It seems like my far flung suburban hell has alot more of the conveniences of urban living than Downtown San Diego urban living offers.[/quote]
There ARE nice restaurants to walk to EVERYWHERE in the urban core. Also a golf course in Balboa Park. Trolleys stops every few blocks take you to Old Town, MV and South and East Counties. The #1 bus will take you to all points in Bankers Hill/Hillcrest in 5-10 mins and that is just ONE route that is avail out of a dozen. Hospital ER’s ARE <10 mins. Farmers Market EVERY DAY dtn. Total of four libraries in the urban core, incl. the SD Main. Pet stores would be Loma Portal, a 10-15 min drive. Urgent care is SRS Clinic. Movies in Horton Plaza and Hillcrest (3d incl).
It's just different strokes . . . same County, different jurisdiction, but IMO, dtn SD has better construction, unmatched views, many exceptional lots, etc. Carlsbad, aka "Gridlocked Nirvana," (along with select "ocean view properties") also has its share of low-income housing, stores that accept WIC coupons, illegal-immigrant residents, ESL students enrolled in its schools, residents on public assistance, homeless persons, etc. NO CA CITY IS IMMUNE from any of these "travails."
"NCC" has some fine areas, just as the urban core of SD does, but I don't buy into the "hype" that it has "superior living conditions" in comparison to San Diego's urban core or other preferred points in CA. Seen it, driven it (albeit slo-o-o-owly, due to gridlock - lol) . . . been up and down and all over the state . . . numerous times. Leaving again soon, to go crush grapes π Lived in CA practically all my life and I probably win all age contests around here π All I can say is, different strokes for different folks ;=)
August 24, 2010 at 11:50 PM #595796sdrealtorParticipantDowntown Sd has better construction? nearly every building there has massive defect litigation underway.
Carlsbad aka “Gridlocked Nirvana”? I can drive in any direction hitting little traffic. Getting around the urban core I have to stop nearly every 100 yds. I can park in my driveway or garage (if I ever got rid of the crap I have in there) and an unlimited number of my friends can park in the street outfront. Downtown I would have 1 or 2 under ground parking spots a long walk from my condo. My friends would have to pay $10 to $20 to park outside or run out every 2 hours to feed a meter.
Yes we have lower income residents. But they dont stand on the street corners urinating in doorways and harassing people walking down the street.
I do agree on different strokes for different folks and I see the value of downtown/urban living. To the contrary, it took you this long to get to different strokes for different folks having started at why would anyone live in Carlsbad or any of the newer communities in NC. Its easily as convenient to live up her and far more relaxed. Now you understand why.
August 24, 2010 at 11:50 PM #595889sdrealtorParticipantDowntown Sd has better construction? nearly every building there has massive defect litigation underway.
Carlsbad aka “Gridlocked Nirvana”? I can drive in any direction hitting little traffic. Getting around the urban core I have to stop nearly every 100 yds. I can park in my driveway or garage (if I ever got rid of the crap I have in there) and an unlimited number of my friends can park in the street outfront. Downtown I would have 1 or 2 under ground parking spots a long walk from my condo. My friends would have to pay $10 to $20 to park outside or run out every 2 hours to feed a meter.
Yes we have lower income residents. But they dont stand on the street corners urinating in doorways and harassing people walking down the street.
I do agree on different strokes for different folks and I see the value of downtown/urban living. To the contrary, it took you this long to get to different strokes for different folks having started at why would anyone live in Carlsbad or any of the newer communities in NC. Its easily as convenient to live up her and far more relaxed. Now you understand why.
August 24, 2010 at 11:50 PM #596428sdrealtorParticipantDowntown Sd has better construction? nearly every building there has massive defect litigation underway.
Carlsbad aka “Gridlocked Nirvana”? I can drive in any direction hitting little traffic. Getting around the urban core I have to stop nearly every 100 yds. I can park in my driveway or garage (if I ever got rid of the crap I have in there) and an unlimited number of my friends can park in the street outfront. Downtown I would have 1 or 2 under ground parking spots a long walk from my condo. My friends would have to pay $10 to $20 to park outside or run out every 2 hours to feed a meter.
Yes we have lower income residents. But they dont stand on the street corners urinating in doorways and harassing people walking down the street.
I do agree on different strokes for different folks and I see the value of downtown/urban living. To the contrary, it took you this long to get to different strokes for different folks having started at why would anyone live in Carlsbad or any of the newer communities in NC. Its easily as convenient to live up her and far more relaxed. Now you understand why.
August 24, 2010 at 11:50 PM #596537sdrealtorParticipantDowntown Sd has better construction? nearly every building there has massive defect litigation underway.
Carlsbad aka “Gridlocked Nirvana”? I can drive in any direction hitting little traffic. Getting around the urban core I have to stop nearly every 100 yds. I can park in my driveway or garage (if I ever got rid of the crap I have in there) and an unlimited number of my friends can park in the street outfront. Downtown I would have 1 or 2 under ground parking spots a long walk from my condo. My friends would have to pay $10 to $20 to park outside or run out every 2 hours to feed a meter.
Yes we have lower income residents. But they dont stand on the street corners urinating in doorways and harassing people walking down the street.
I do agree on different strokes for different folks and I see the value of downtown/urban living. To the contrary, it took you this long to get to different strokes for different folks having started at why would anyone live in Carlsbad or any of the newer communities in NC. Its easily as convenient to live up her and far more relaxed. Now you understand why.
August 24, 2010 at 11:50 PM #596851sdrealtorParticipantDowntown Sd has better construction? nearly every building there has massive defect litigation underway.
Carlsbad aka “Gridlocked Nirvana”? I can drive in any direction hitting little traffic. Getting around the urban core I have to stop nearly every 100 yds. I can park in my driveway or garage (if I ever got rid of the crap I have in there) and an unlimited number of my friends can park in the street outfront. Downtown I would have 1 or 2 under ground parking spots a long walk from my condo. My friends would have to pay $10 to $20 to park outside or run out every 2 hours to feed a meter.
Yes we have lower income residents. But they dont stand on the street corners urinating in doorways and harassing people walking down the street.
I do agree on different strokes for different folks and I see the value of downtown/urban living. To the contrary, it took you this long to get to different strokes for different folks having started at why would anyone live in Carlsbad or any of the newer communities in NC. Its easily as convenient to live up her and far more relaxed. Now you understand why.
August 24, 2010 at 11:52 PM #595801bearishgurlParticipant[quote=AN]BG, have you every been to the downtown of the major east coast/mid west cities (like NYC, Chicago, etc)? I’m in Chicago now and I don’t think SD downtown can even come close to be comparable. There are so many parks here, you don’t have to go very far to be at a park. Millennium Park has free concerts and other activities. There are trees everywhere, there are grassy medians, there are subways, there are very interesting architectures (combination of old and new architectures), etc. It just feel much more well put together.[/quote]
Oh, have fun there AN! At least it’s not frigid and windy this time of year π
Yes, in the cont’l US, I’ve been to Wash. DC, Baltimore, All Florida cities (both sides), New Orleans, Shreveport, Biloxi-Gulfport, Mobile, Little Rock, Ft. Smith, State of TX (all), State of OK (all), State of KS (all), State of CO (all), State of NM (all), State of AZ (all), State of NV (all), State of Utah (all), Cheyenne, Lincoln, (NE), State of VA (2 counties) and State of CA (all). BY “all,” I mean I have traveled every major road in the state (and some minor). This doesn’t count cities I transferred in but did not leave the airport.
Yes, I’ve ridden the subway in Wash DC and the BART train in the SF Bay area (partial subway). Many cities are heavily treed but SoCal is an “irrigated desert.” That’s why you’re not used to seeing them. MD and CO also have very interesting architecture, new and old blended in. CO is older than SoCal and MD is much older than CO. Denver is especially noteworthy for its blended old and new architecture – very charming, and elegant . . . just awesome neighborhoods.
I’m sure you’re right, AN. SD is no Chicago and never will be. But if you have ever been there in the winter, you will KNOW the difference. And their snow and ice-covered “architecture” will be the least of your worries then :=}
August 24, 2010 at 11:52 PM #595894bearishgurlParticipant[quote=AN]BG, have you every been to the downtown of the major east coast/mid west cities (like NYC, Chicago, etc)? I’m in Chicago now and I don’t think SD downtown can even come close to be comparable. There are so many parks here, you don’t have to go very far to be at a park. Millennium Park has free concerts and other activities. There are trees everywhere, there are grassy medians, there are subways, there are very interesting architectures (combination of old and new architectures), etc. It just feel much more well put together.[/quote]
Oh, have fun there AN! At least it’s not frigid and windy this time of year π
Yes, in the cont’l US, I’ve been to Wash. DC, Baltimore, All Florida cities (both sides), New Orleans, Shreveport, Biloxi-Gulfport, Mobile, Little Rock, Ft. Smith, State of TX (all), State of OK (all), State of KS (all), State of CO (all), State of NM (all), State of AZ (all), State of NV (all), State of Utah (all), Cheyenne, Lincoln, (NE), State of VA (2 counties) and State of CA (all). BY “all,” I mean I have traveled every major road in the state (and some minor). This doesn’t count cities I transferred in but did not leave the airport.
Yes, I’ve ridden the subway in Wash DC and the BART train in the SF Bay area (partial subway). Many cities are heavily treed but SoCal is an “irrigated desert.” That’s why you’re not used to seeing them. MD and CO also have very interesting architecture, new and old blended in. CO is older than SoCal and MD is much older than CO. Denver is especially noteworthy for its blended old and new architecture – very charming, and elegant . . . just awesome neighborhoods.
I’m sure you’re right, AN. SD is no Chicago and never will be. But if you have ever been there in the winter, you will KNOW the difference. And their snow and ice-covered “architecture” will be the least of your worries then :=}
August 24, 2010 at 11:52 PM #596433bearishgurlParticipant[quote=AN]BG, have you every been to the downtown of the major east coast/mid west cities (like NYC, Chicago, etc)? I’m in Chicago now and I don’t think SD downtown can even come close to be comparable. There are so many parks here, you don’t have to go very far to be at a park. Millennium Park has free concerts and other activities. There are trees everywhere, there are grassy medians, there are subways, there are very interesting architectures (combination of old and new architectures), etc. It just feel much more well put together.[/quote]
Oh, have fun there AN! At least it’s not frigid and windy this time of year π
Yes, in the cont’l US, I’ve been to Wash. DC, Baltimore, All Florida cities (both sides), New Orleans, Shreveport, Biloxi-Gulfport, Mobile, Little Rock, Ft. Smith, State of TX (all), State of OK (all), State of KS (all), State of CO (all), State of NM (all), State of AZ (all), State of NV (all), State of Utah (all), Cheyenne, Lincoln, (NE), State of VA (2 counties) and State of CA (all). BY “all,” I mean I have traveled every major road in the state (and some minor). This doesn’t count cities I transferred in but did not leave the airport.
Yes, I’ve ridden the subway in Wash DC and the BART train in the SF Bay area (partial subway). Many cities are heavily treed but SoCal is an “irrigated desert.” That’s why you’re not used to seeing them. MD and CO also have very interesting architecture, new and old blended in. CO is older than SoCal and MD is much older than CO. Denver is especially noteworthy for its blended old and new architecture – very charming, and elegant . . . just awesome neighborhoods.
I’m sure you’re right, AN. SD is no Chicago and never will be. But if you have ever been there in the winter, you will KNOW the difference. And their snow and ice-covered “architecture” will be the least of your worries then :=}
August 24, 2010 at 11:52 PM #596542bearishgurlParticipant[quote=AN]BG, have you every been to the downtown of the major east coast/mid west cities (like NYC, Chicago, etc)? I’m in Chicago now and I don’t think SD downtown can even come close to be comparable. There are so many parks here, you don’t have to go very far to be at a park. Millennium Park has free concerts and other activities. There are trees everywhere, there are grassy medians, there are subways, there are very interesting architectures (combination of old and new architectures), etc. It just feel much more well put together.[/quote]
Oh, have fun there AN! At least it’s not frigid and windy this time of year π
Yes, in the cont’l US, I’ve been to Wash. DC, Baltimore, All Florida cities (both sides), New Orleans, Shreveport, Biloxi-Gulfport, Mobile, Little Rock, Ft. Smith, State of TX (all), State of OK (all), State of KS (all), State of CO (all), State of NM (all), State of AZ (all), State of NV (all), State of Utah (all), Cheyenne, Lincoln, (NE), State of VA (2 counties) and State of CA (all). BY “all,” I mean I have traveled every major road in the state (and some minor). This doesn’t count cities I transferred in but did not leave the airport.
Yes, I’ve ridden the subway in Wash DC and the BART train in the SF Bay area (partial subway). Many cities are heavily treed but SoCal is an “irrigated desert.” That’s why you’re not used to seeing them. MD and CO also have very interesting architecture, new and old blended in. CO is older than SoCal and MD is much older than CO. Denver is especially noteworthy for its blended old and new architecture – very charming, and elegant . . . just awesome neighborhoods.
I’m sure you’re right, AN. SD is no Chicago and never will be. But if you have ever been there in the winter, you will KNOW the difference. And their snow and ice-covered “architecture” will be the least of your worries then :=}
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