A simpler life

[The-Shoveler]

LOL too much deep thought for me.

I like my life, could it be better yes, but what ever it is I prefer to think of it as mine.

And I definitely do not blame my parents for any faults I may have (good lord I am over 50, think I could take some responsibility for my life at this point).

[svelte]

[quote=The-Shoveler]Just a general comment not aimed at anyone,

Blaming your failures as an adult on your parents is really lame IMO.[/quote]

Agreed, and i hope you dont think that is what i said.

But the experiences one goes thru in life certainly help form the lens through which one sees the world in general and ones place in that world. Look at the first child second child syndrome.

My wife had a pretty darn rough childhood and she turned out wonderfully. The lens through which she sees the world is different than mine, and some or alot of that is due to the turbulence she went through. Not saying it is good or bad, it just is.

The nature vs nurture thing will never be sorted out completely, too many variables. But both contribute to who you are.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=The-Shoveler]LOL too much deep thought for me.

I like my life, could it be better yes, but what ever it is I prefer to think of it as mine.

And I definitely do not blame my parents for any faults I may have (good lord I am over 50, think I could take some responsibility for my life at this point).[/quote]

the very idea of a “self-made man” is a very culturally specific, politically and socially charged modern concept. Even the notion that you conceive of yourself as self-created is a concept you did not create.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=svelte][quote=The-Shoveler]Just a general comment not aimed at anyone,

Blaming your failures as an adult on your parents is really lame IMO.[/quote]

Agreed, and i hope you dont think that is what i said.

But the experiences one goes thru in life certainly help form the lens through which one sees the world in general and ones place in that world. Look at the first child second child syndrome.

My wife had a pretty darn rough childhood and she turned out wonderfully. The lens through which she sees the world is different than mine, and some or alot of that is due to the turbulence she went through. Not saying it is good or bad, it just is.

The nature vs nurture thing will never be sorted out completely, too many variables. But both contribute to who you are.[/quote]

it seems to me that the failure of the Trumps to get family therapy in Don’s formative years has changed the course of American history. it seems almost transparently obvious that don didn’t spring fully formed as the being he is, but is still working out some childhood/early adolescent issues.

[The-Shoveler]

Good lord you guys are right LOL,

We cannot be held accountable for anything we do or think.

OK I am done here, too much time on this thread already.

[scaredyclassic]

you absolutely can be held accountable for things you do.

It is absolutely a good idea to own your actions and take responsibility for your decisions.

You absolutely have some agency and can control some things.

But it is probably an infantile response to believe you created the world, or for that matter, your self, in its totality.

[The-Shoveler]

Delete,
This is going in a pointless circle. I will not post this thread any more

[scaredyclassic]

let’s say you’re in an argument with your spouse. You react in a way that you realize may have been similar to the way your dad reacted in arguments with your mom, or perhaps in your wife’s voice you see a direct repetition of things her mom said in the way she phrases her complaint.

this insight, which can hit with an almost blinding force at times, isn’t “blaming” the dad or saying it’s the mom’s “fault” that the argument is progressing the way it is.

Just a probable necessary step in understanding and perhaps changing why and how one reacts. And perhaps in some cases, a sanity or marriage saving inquiry.

thinking hard about why and what you’re feeling and how you are reacting might be seen as a pointless exercise for some (just suck it up and try harder, stop thinking too much or too deep, just do it, etc.), but some find it useful for getting along better with others in the world.

It feels like udner this type of thought process, no criticism is possible.

if i were to say capitalism is a brutal unsustainable system that makes life miserable for huge chunks of american society in an unjust society that eventually will consume all of the earth’s resources and kill us all, i would perhaps be simply blaming the system for the failure of soem people to be winners.

or maybe making a valid point about capitalism.

Sure I can and will necesarily still be responsible for my own financial affairs in our unjust capitalist society, and im still accountable, while also realizing I didn’t create the system , the incentives, and to some degree, my success within the system is not all mine, since it is in part genetic, part where and how I was raised, and which opportunities crossed my path.

blame. fault.

insight. understanding.

you choose.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=The-Shoveler]Good lord you guys are right LOL,

We cannot be held accountable for anything we do or think.

OK I am done here, too much time on this thread already.[/quote]

huh.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-a-mix-of-psychotherapy-and-financial-advice-could-solve-your-money-issues-once-and-for-all-2019-09-05?mod=mw_theo_homepage

financial psychotherapy. a burgeoning field…

from wikipedia…

In his 2000 book Creating the Modern Man, cultural historian Tom Pendergast traced the way in which the concept of the self-made man was referenced in men’s magazines from 1900 through 1950.[29]:10 Pendergast divided masculinity into only two periods: Victorian, which was “based on property-ownership and family”, and “post-Victorian”, which was “based on a cult of personality, self-improvement, and narcissism”.[30] He described the “ideal Victorian man” as a “property owning man of character who believed in honesty, integrity, self-restraint, and duty to God, country, and family”.[29]:10 The post-Victorian image of the self-made man was crucial to Pendergast’s study. He revealed how through magazines men “were encouraged to form their identities around an ideology of hard work.”[29]:10

In September 2011, Elizabeth Warren challenged the concept of the self-made man in a video that went viral,[31] garnering over one million views on YouTube:[32]

There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody … You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. … Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

— Elizabeth Warren, Massachusetts Senate candidate (2011)

[svelte]

Let me try an extreme example of how your childhood can affect who you are, but you should still be held accountable for your actions.

There are many examples of murderers from less than ideal backgrounds…charles manson and jeffrey dahmer come to mind… but they should absolutely be held accountable for their actions. No doubt about it.

And yes there are folks from great backgrounds who murder also. Menendez brothers come to mind. But a bad childhood increases the odds of extreme bad behavior.

[svelte]

You know i liked warren back in 2011.

But since then she has taken a number of positions that make it unlikely i would support her now.

[spdrun]

^^^ Positions such as?

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=svelte]Let me try an extreme example of how your childhood can affect who you are, but you should still be held accountable for your actions.

There are many examples of murderers from less than ideal backgrounds…charles manson and jeffrey dahmer come to mind… but they should absolutely be held accountable for their actions. No doubt about it.

And yes there are folks from great backgrounds who murder also. Menendez brothers come to mind. But a bad childhood increases the odds of extreme bad behavior.[/quote]

life is a series of risk factors. but we don’t like to think of ourselves as being subject to the laws of probability. So for instance, if your parents moved house a lot in your childhood, that would put a child at risk of a whole host of bad social and intellectual outcomes.
it is not a good thing for a kid to move around a lot. does that mean that every kid who moves around a lot will not finish hs will join a gang or murder someone? no. but it’s definitely a risk associated with being in a family that moves around a lot. and just because you grew up and moved around
a lot and turned out fine doesn’t mean that you weren’t exposed to a risk…or that your life context didn’t potentially have great impact on you in other smaller subtler ways.

to say I am not part of the normal risk pool, that I cannot be affected by the various risks in my life through sheer force of will, is, well, probably just wrong.

or at least as foolishly proud as claiming ones self to be above the risk factors medical doctors agree on…, i understand I have a 35% increased risk of cancer due to my genetics or lifestyle, but through sheer determination, I know that i will not be part of that 35%. perhaps because i am so focussed, or I pray a lot, or I have a lot of people praying for me, the normal risk factors of life that i have inherited along the way do not matter.

i could not blame my parents for the social factors they laid upon me, anymore than I would blame the genetic factors (although frankly, when I look at myself, i’m not sure I shouldve been permitted to reproduce. but that’s another issue).

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=spdrun]^^^ Positions such as?[/quote]

student loans should not be forgiven. Colleges should be forced to pay nonperforming loans out of their endowment.

there should be a mandatory 40 hour counseling session for students and parents with a state paid financial advisor prior to signing any loan documents.

wait, i changed my position. no federal student loans.

[PCinSD]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=PCinSD][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=zk]
And also, if you had been more pressured as a child maybe you would have been a valedictorian, Rhodes scholar, concert pianist, etc…. at that time, your competitive advantage would have been so much greater.
[/quote]
Wow, Zk, I’m so sorry about the way you’re parents raised you. All that untapped potential . . . gone. Were you able to overcome the lack of proper parenting? Have you made peace with your parents?

I’d pick up a decent keyboard and start taking lessons asap. Hang in there.[/quote]

I think there’s an argument that if the kid has a burning desire to be rich or famous, its usually to fill some gap in the parents life. If your kid just wants to be unknown, you probably didnt lsy your failings on them.

Me I really wanted to be famous, and still do. Most days I walk around feeling like there’s something great in me if I could just get out[/quote]
You don’t post any links to support that argument, but whatever. Your posting history seems like someone who has a burning desire to be famous, or more popular, or paid attention to. Don’t despair. On this website, you’ve become the man you’ve always wanted to be. Hopefully that filled the gap.

[Author]

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