Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › Ron Paul Questions and Concerns Well
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October 27, 2011 at 2:47 PM #731423October 27, 2011 at 2:54 PM #731424
markmax33
Guest[quote=walterwhite]Pretty much everything works till it doesn’t. Hasn’t ever metals based currency also failed? I mean, the ones that failed.[/quote]
No gold based currency has ever failed because there is a finite supply. Gold is mined at approximately the same rate every year and there have been no major technological breakthroughs in gold mining. Every fiat currency that has failed has gone back to gold or some other precious metal. This has happened hundreds if not thousands of times. If something has happened that many times in a row, I generally try to learn from it. I might be really crazy though.
October 27, 2011 at 3:01 PM #731426Guest[quote=pri_dk][quote=markmax33]EVERY SINGLE FIAT CURRENCY HAS FAILED IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD[/quote]
EXCEPT FOR THE ONES THAT HAVEN’T.
SUCH AS EVERY CURRENCY IN THE WORLD TODAY.
Ron Paul even wants to kill the Bald Eagles on dollar bills.
The man is ruthless.[/quote]
pri_dk,
Why don’t you try to give a counter arguement that makes sense instead of calling the most intersting man in the world – Ron Paul – names? Here are some recent currency failures including the 2nd largest economy in 1998 – Russia:In 1932, Argentina had the eighth largest economy in the world before its currency collapsed. In 1992, Finland, Italy, and Norway had currency shocks that spread through Europe.
In 1994, Mexico went through the infamous “Tequila Hangover,” which sent the peso tumbling and spread economic hardships throughout Latin America.
In 1997, the Thai baht fell through the floor and the effects spread to Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia, Hong Kong, and South Korea.
The Russian ruble was not the currency you wanted your investments denominated in in 1998, after its devaluation brought on economic recession. In the early 21st century, we have seen the Turkish lira experience strokes of hyperinflation similar to that of the mark of Weimar Germany.
In present times, we have Zimbabwe, which was once considered the breadbasket of Africa and was one of the wealthiest countries on the continent. Now Mugabe’s attempts at price controls, combined with hyperinflation, have the nation unable to supply the most basic essentials such as bread and clean water.
WE ARE 14.8 TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT and bring in 2.5 Trillion dollars per year in taxes and spend 3.8 trillion per year. THIS IS A PONZI SCHEME FOLKS. Prove me wrong. Pri_dk – you are for destruction of our dollar and our government and you don’t realize it but you hate bald eagles more than anyone.
Ron Paul 2012!
October 27, 2011 at 6:59 PM #731439SK in CV
Participant[quote=markmax33][quote=pri_dk][quote=markmax33]EVERY SINGLE FIAT CURRENCY HAS FAILED IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD[/quote]
EXCEPT FOR THE ONES THAT HAVEN’T.
SUCH AS EVERY CURRENCY IN THE WORLD TODAY.
Ron Paul even wants to kill the Bald Eagles on dollar bills.
The man is ruthless.[/quote]
pri_dk,
Why don’t you try to give a counter arguement that makes sense instead of calling the most intersting man in the world – Ron Paul – names? Here are some recent currency failures including the 2nd largest economy in 1998 – Russia:In 1932, Argentina had the eighth largest economy in the world before its currency collapsed. In 1992, Finland, Italy, and Norway had currency shocks that spread through Europe.
In 1994, Mexico went through the infamous “Tequila Hangover,” which sent the peso tumbling and spread economic hardships throughout Latin America.
In 1997, the Thai baht fell through the floor and the effects spread to Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia, Hong Kong, and South Korea.
The Russian ruble was not the currency you wanted your investments denominated in in 1998, after its devaluation brought on economic recession. In the early 21st century, we have seen the Turkish lira experience strokes of hyperinflation similar to that of the mark of Weimar Germany.
In present times, we have Zimbabwe, which was once considered the breadbasket of Africa and was one of the wealthiest countries on the continent. Now Mugabe’s attempts at price controls, combined with hyperinflation, have the nation unable to supply the most basic essentials such as bread and clean water.
WE ARE 14.8 TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT and bring in 2.5 Trillion dollars per year in taxes and spend 3.8 trillion per year. THIS IS A PONZI SCHEME FOLKS. Prove me wrong. Pri_dk – you are for destruction of our dollar and our government and you don’t realize it but you hate bald eagles more than anyone.
Ron Paul 2012![/quote]
His argument made perfect sense, your defense of your argument did not. Your claim that every single fiat currency in the history of the world is both patently and demonstrably false. (It has not failed in the US, ergo, all have not failed.)
Additionally….
[quote=markmax33]
The federal reserve printed and handed out 15 Trillion dollars in loans last year which is about 7 times the amount of money the US government collects in taxes in one year. To me this means the federal reserve has atleast 7 times the power of the US federal government and nobody even realizes it. [/quote]is a logical fallacy. Unless you can prove a logical and directly proportional nexus as to the relationship between Fed loans and annual Federal government tax collections as it relates to “power” your claim is worthless. To me this means that anyone making such a rediculous argument is as loony as Ron Paul.
We need more roads!
October 27, 2011 at 8:18 PM #731442all
Participant[quote=markmax33][quote=walterwhite]Why is he so old?[/quote]
Ron Paul is probably the fittest of the candidates and challenged all the presidential contenders to join him on his 20 mile bike ride in the middle of the summer in Houston with 110 degree temps and 100% humidity. He is the world’s most interesting man in real life and can defeat Chuck Norris while delivering twin babies and drinking a Dos Equis.[/quote]But, why is he so old?
October 27, 2011 at 8:21 PM #731444Anonymous
Guest[quote=markmax33]To me this means the federal reserve has atleast 7 times the power of the US federal government and nobody even realizes it.[/quote]
Seven times more powerful than the US federal government?
The Fed must have a lot of nuclear weapons.
How many did they count in the recent audit?
October 28, 2011 at 8:39 AM #731482GuestSince it has been proven many times that the banks finance both sides of all wars and make money on every weapon made and bailed out companies in the military industrial complex it is clear they are linked. When the banks went to Congress in 2008 and said, “bail us out or the world will end”, they certanly proved who the boss was to the GOV by holding a gun to congress’s head. Do you not see an issue with the federal reserve loaning out 20 TIMES what congress authorized for TARP? Are you crazy? You don’t seem to answer any of my legitimate questions which makes you a horrible debater. I answer every single one of yours with a VERY LOGICAL train of thought with proof, evidence and history.
October 28, 2011 at 8:55 AM #731484Guest[quote=SK in CV]
EXCEPT FOR THE ONES THAT HAVEN’T.SUCH AS EVERY CURRENCY IN THE WORLD TODAY.
Ron Paul even wants to kill the Bald Eagles on dollar bills.
His argument made perfect sense, your defense of your argument did not. Your claim that every single fiat currency in the history of the world is both patently and demonstrably false. (It has not failed in the US, ergo, all have not failed.)
Additionally….
is a logical fallacy. Unless you can prove a logical and directly proportional nexus as to the relationship between Fed loans and annual Federal government tax collections as it relates to “power” your claim is worthless. To me this means that anyone making such a rediculous argument is as loony as Ron Paul.
We need more roads![/quote]
SK in CV,
I’m sorry you haven’t read history. I guess you are correct, out of the 1000 fiat currencies in history there are the current 10 or so that haven’t defaulted yet. You really have to study inflation and seem to have no concept of the pain of inflation. It is a slow drain on the economy and shifts power from the middle class. A great example is my grandparents and parents both could survive on a 1-income family with a single paying job and send all the children to school with no problems. There are almost no 1-income families that can do what my parents and grandparents did. I’m not arguing women shouldn’t work, I’m arguing they are forced to work now because of inflation.
Why do you disregard your founding fathers who expressly prohibited a central bank because they knew what inflation would do to the society? Why don’t you answer my questions? Do you enjoy the 10% + inflation we have right now? Don’t tell me the GOV number is only 3% because that number excludes WAAAAY too many things.
To me when 990 out of 1000 failures have occurred and we see the Euro starting to go into default, it is time to address the problem. My 100% valid argument is that if the currency defaults there will be no money for environmental programs and people will be worried about trying to eat and not care about the bald eagles. He is therefore in favor of killing the bald eagles if he doesn’t vote for Ron Paul because he is the only one that will tackle the federal reserve and inflation. I think I have proven my point quite well. He has proven no point that the bald eagles would be extinct without an EPA. That is an assumption at best and 99% a lie based on CAL/EPA and other local environmental groups that make the national EPA redundant.October 28, 2011 at 12:46 PM #731497Participant[quote=markmax33]Since it has been proven many times that the banks finance both sides of all wars and make money on every weapon made and bailed out companies in the military industrial complex it is clear they are linked..[/quote]
Proven? Citation please please on all 3 assertions.
[quote=markmax33] When the banks went to Congress in 2008 and said, “bail us out or the world will end”, they certanly proved who the boss was to the GOV by holding a gun to congress’s head.[/quote]
Logical fallacy-begging the question. Citation please for any bank going to Congress and saying “bail us out or the world will end”.
[quote=markmax33]Do you not see an issue with the federal reserve loaning out 20 TIMES what congress authorized for TARP? Are you crazy? [/quote]
Logical fallacy-straw man argument. No assertion was made that I see no problem with it.
[quote=markmax33]
You don’t seem to answer any of my legitimate questions which makes you a horrible debater. I answer every single one of yours with a VERY LOGICAL train of thought with proof, evidence and history.[/quote]You have offered no logic, no proof, no evidence, in fact, you’ve offered nothing more than inconclusive rhetoric.
What was your question again?
October 28, 2011 at 1:08 PM #731499Participant[quote=markmax33]
SK in CV,
I’m sorry you haven’t read history. I guess you are correct, out of the 1000 fiat currencies in history there are the current 10 or so that haven’t defaulted yet. [/quote]I have read history, thank you for acknowledging that your assertion is false. (I quite sure there are more than 10 fiat currencies operating in the world today. Exaggeration works well in comedy, in serious discussion, not so much.)
[quote=markmax33]
You really have to study inflation and seem to have no concept of the pain of inflation. It is a slow drain on the economy and shifts power from the middle class. [/quote]I have studied inflation. Worked much of my career as an economist. In re-reading everything you’ve written here, I’m quite sure you haven’t made any assertions about inflation until this one. I would successfully argue that it shifts power from the lower economic class even more than from the middle class.
[quote=markmax33]
A great example is my grandparents and parents both could survive on a 1-income family with a single paying job and send all the children to school with no problems. There are almost no 1-income families that can do what my parents and grandparents did. I’m not arguing women shouldn’t work, I’m arguing they are forced to work now because of inflation. [/quote]No disagreement with your conclusion, although anectodal evidence is of little value.
[quote=markmax33]
Why do you disregard your founding fathers who expressly prohibited a central bank because they knew what inflation would do to the society? Why don’t you answer my questions? [/quote]I haven’t disregarded them, though I hardly consider them mine. And there you go with begging the question again.
I haven’t answered the question because you never asked this one before now. My answer is as above, I haven’t disregarded them.
[quote=markmax33]
Do you enjoy the 10% + inflation we have right now? Don’t tell me the GOV number is only 3% because that number excludes WAAAAY too many things. [/quote]Again with the begging the question. I don’t enjoy inflation. Though it might be more preferable than attempting to exchange ideas with an idealogue. There are numerous ways to measure inflation. Do you have a comprehensive method that has measured it at 10% or more?
[quote=markmax33]
To me when 990 out of 1000 failures have occurred and we see the Euro starting to go into default, it is time to address the problem. My 100% valid argument is that if the currency defaults there will be no money for environmental programs and people will be worried about trying to eat and not care about the bald eagles. [/quote]Really, you’re worried about the bald eagle?
[quote=markmax33]
He is therefore in favor of killing the bald eagles if he doesn’t vote for Ron Paul because he is the only one that will tackle the federal reserve and inflation. [/quote]Who is he? Not there, the other place.
[quote=markmax33]
I think I have proven my point quite well. He has proven no point that the bald eagles would be extinct without an EPA. That is an assumption at best and 99% a lie based on CAL/EPA and other local environmental groups that make the national EPA redundant.[/quote]Like I said, we need more roads.
Thank you for sharing.
October 28, 2011 at 1:29 PM #731501GuestProven? Citation please please on all 3 assertions.
The Federal Reserve made a huge loan to the Libyan National Bank which was reported in the audit of the Federal Reserve you can easily look that up. We just destroyed Libya.
During WWII there was a fuel additive that was owned by the Rockafeller banking cartel that founded the federal reserve and they were selling it to the Germans. The german planes couldn’t fly with out it. This is documented in many places.
I could find many more.
October 28, 2011 at 1:35 PM #731502GuestThe CPI the government used in the 1980s shows an 11% inflation rate. Why did they change it? They knew the perception of inflation was very detrmintal. I certainly pay for healthcare and gas and all of those things not the “core CPI” measure. A real measure includes everything. I don’t even think the old CPI index was really honest. As a nearly extinct Kenysian economist you should know that.
http://dailybail.com/home/chart-the-real-inflation-rate-is-11-according-to-cpi-calcula.html
October 28, 2011 at 1:37 PM #731503GuestSK in CV,
The grandparents and parents anology is far from anecedotal. It has happened to EVERY SINGLE family in the country. You seem to really not understand the term annecdotal?October 28, 2011 at 1:42 PM #731504scaredyclassic
ParticipantI prefer owls to eagles.
Isn’t it a tad late in the game to start acting responsibly with our currency?
October 28, 2011 at 1:43 PM #731505ParticipantMy dad told me to never trust a man w two first names.
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