Ron Paul Questions and Concerns Well

[SK in CV]

[quote=markmax33]
Dude,
There are COMPLETE multi-trillion dollar programs that the FED does not have audited. Do you see a problem with that as an auditing expert? You don’t have a problem with the FED funding bombs used against our troops? I do, and I bet everyone else reading this blog does other than possibly you.[/quote]

Name one.

And no need to follow it up with another straw man argument.

I’ve never said I was an auditing expert. Only that I know what an audit is. You don’t. You don’t have a clue. An audit would NEVER prevent anything that’s happened in the past. Audit’s are historical in nature.

I’ve never said I don’t see any problems with the Fed. Only that I don’t see your imaginary problems. Or your imaginary cures.

[swave]

[quote=markmax33][quote=swave]
Yes, 708 tons of gold were mined in the second quarter of this year, but 919 tons of gold were used in jewelry and electronics. The total amount of gold that has been mined is 165,000 tons. The amount available to back a currency is decreasing. [/quote]

The value of gold would go up and fewer people would use it in jewelery and the supply would increase. People would use some other precious metal. It would not be an issue.[/quote]

This would cause inflation for jewelry and electronic parts. Do you understand how exponential growth works? If the economy continues growing exponentially, demand for gold would grow exponentially. At some point in the not too distant future, we will run out. What then?

[markmax33]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=markmax33]
Dude,
There are COMPLETE multi-trillion dollar programs that the FED does not have audited. Do you see a problem with that as an auditing expert? You don’t have a problem with the FED funding bombs used against our troops? I do, and I bet everyone else reading this blog does other than possibly you.[/quote]

Name one.

And no need to follow it up with another straw man argument.

I’ve never said I was an auditing expert. Only that I know what an audit is. You don’t. You don’t have a clue. An audit would NEVER prevent anything that’s happened in the past. Audit’s are historical in nature.

I’ve never said I don’t see any problems with the Fed. Only that I don’t see your imaginary problems. Or your imaginary cures.[/quote]

The international loan program was never audited before Ron Paul’s audit which was 1/3 of the $15T. None of the emergency loan programs were ever audited either. This article explains it better:

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

How about the fact that several people on the federal reserve board held large sums of shares or even positions in the companies they were bailing out secretly? Not an issue?

Can I get my discount window?

[markmax33]

[quote=swave][quote=markmax33][quote=swave]
Yes, 708 tons of gold were mined in the second quarter of this year, but 919 tons of gold were used in jewelry and electronics. The total amount of gold that has been mined is 165,000 tons. The amount available to back a currency is decreasing. [/quote]

The value of gold would go up and fewer people would use it in jewelery and the supply would increase. People would use some other precious metal. It would not be an issue.[/quote]

This would cause inflation for jewelry and electronic parts. Do you understand how exponential growth works? If the economy continues growing exponentially, demand for gold would grow exponentially. At some point in the not too distant future, we will run out. What then?[/quote]

Let’s put together a graph of population growth VS Gold supply VS money supply by the FED.

I GAURENTEE YOU THAT TWO OF THE LINES ARE FLAT AND ONE IS EXPONENTIAL. The FED’s printing will make the population growth look concave (saracasim, but it will look flat). All Ron Paul wants to do is legalize other currencies. Are you against that? He wouldn’t get rid of the FED overnight as you seem to fear. It would be clear from audits to the american people that it needs to be reformed. Do you think gold should be a legal currency? It’s not…Why not? Seems reasonable to me for competition.

Would you agree to a monetary system that only grew at the rate of population growth? That sounds rather reasonable based on your line of questioning? He has suggested that as part of a transition.

[aldante]

[quote=sdrealtor]Is the City of LA bankrupt? Thats where he worked. In the City of Encinitas (not bankrupt either) most firefighters bring home gross wages well above 100K and have rich health and retirement benefits.

My point was they can do it here as they are well paid. In most parts of the US you can buy a home and send your kids to state colleges with 1 working parent. You have just chosen to live in one of the more expensive places in the country where it is much harder.[/quote]

Not sure if that arguement holds water here SDrealtor….by far most housholds in the country are two income….and most people in the country do not live here so therefore……

[markmax33]

[quote=swave]
A better commodity to use to back a currency is the environment. Clean water, clean air and undeveloped land.

I spend a lot of time swimming and surfing in the ocean. Ron Paul’s views do not encourage the maintenance of a clean ocean. I cannot afford to hire a lawyer to sue a company that has polluted the ocean.[/quote]

Again a horrible arguement. There are many state regulators for the environment that are much smarter than the GOV regulators. Why do you want to pay for twice the GOV regulation?

Here are the boards in California and there are plenty more I’m sure:

California Air Resources Board
Department of Pesticide Regulation
Department of Toxic Substances Control
Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment
State Water Resources Control Board

Your seawater would be PLENTY safe. He encourages regulation, just not on the Fedreal level. Why do you want to violate the constitution? Environmental regulation is not the powers of the GOV under article 1 section 8 of the constitution. Is it okay all of sudden?

Here is the City of San Diego Environmental department:

http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/deh/

Do you think they are doing a good job? I bet they are? Why do you hate the local agencies and local jobs?

[SK in CV]

[quote=markmax33]
The international loan program was never audited before Ron Paul’s audit which was 1/3 of the $15T. None of the emergency loan programs were ever audited either. This article explains it better:

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

How about the fact that several people on the federal reserve board held large sums of shares or even positions in the companies they were bailing out secretly? Not an issue?

Can I get my discount window?[/quote]

I think you mean Bernie Sanders’ audit. (One of my heros, go Bernie!) And if the audit was done, how can you say it was never audited?

And since you cite that particular article, please note that it says it was a “top-to-bottom audit of the Federal Reserve”.

And stop with the bullshit that I don’t think there are problems with the Fed. I just think your arguments are crappy. If you make a crappy argument, just because I point it out, doesn’t mean that I even disagree with your conclusion.

[swave]

[quote=markmax33][quote=swave][quote=markmax33][quote=swave]
Yes, 708 tons of gold were mined in the second quarter of this year, but 919 tons of gold were used in jewelry and electronics. The total amount of gold that has been mined is 165,000 tons. The amount available to back a currency is decreasing. [/quote]

The value of gold would go up and fewer people would use it in jewelery and the supply would increase. People would use some other precious metal. It would not be an issue.[/quote]

This would cause inflation for jewelry and electronic parts. Do you understand how exponential growth works? If the economy continues growing exponentially, demand for gold would grow exponentially. At some point in the not too distant future, we will run out. What then?[/quote]

Let’s put together a graph of population growth VS Gold supply VS money supply by the FED.

I GAURENTEE YOU THAT TWO OF THE LINES ARE FLAT AND ONE IS EXPONENTIAL. The FED’s printing will make the population growth look concave (saracasim, but it will look flat). All Ron Paul wants to do is legalize other currencies. Are you against that? He wouldn’t get rid of the FED overnight as you seem to fear. It would be clear from audits to the american people that it needs to be reformed. Do you think gold should be a legal currency? It’s not…Why not? Seems reasonable to me for competition.

Would you agree to a monetary system that only grew at the rate of population growth? That sounds rather reasonable based on your line of questioning? He has suggested that as part of a transition.[/quote]
We need to identify a system that works well with an economy that is not growing exponentially.
You would expect with increasing productivity, unemployment would increase if there is no growth in the economy. Neither the Fed nor the gold standard can deal with that problem.
The gold standard worked well for a while. The Fed also worked well for a while. But neither will work well for very long. The best solution that I have seen is described in this link:

Sacred Economics: Chapter 12, Negative-Interest Economics (Pt. 13)

[scaredyclassic]

Decaying money. I like it.

I read pretty far into that article.

I’m kind of persuaded

[markmax33]

[quote=SK in CV]
I think you mean Bernie Sanders’ audit. (One of my heros, go Bernie!) And if the audit was done, how can you say it was never audited?

And since you cite that particular article, please note that it says it was a “top-to-bottom audit of the Federal Reserve”.

And stop with the bullshit that I don’t think there are problems with the Fed. I just think your arguments are crappy. If you make a crappy argument, just because I point it out, doesn’t mean that I even disagree with your conclusion.[/quote]

No you are just being ignorant, if you agreed with the conclusion you wouldn’t have attacked in that manner earlier and been so condescending. I make very logical arguments. It is Ron Paul’s bill 100% he’s been trying to pass for 30 years:

http://www.ronpaul.com/congress/legislation/111th-congress-200910/audit-the-federal-reserve-hr-1207/

You attack because you don’t have a logical counter-argument and you are the only one on the blog that thinks that way.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

[all]

I kind of liked the few Ron Paul soundbites that I stumbled upon. But I find people who “speak for him”, “would take a bullet for him” (one guy on /. in particular) and who insist on prefixing the name with ‘Doctor’ to be very scary. I don’t like people who would take a bullet for A since they tend to put a bullet in B with even greater ease.

[SK in CV]

[quote=markmax33]
No you are just being ignorant, if you agreed with the conclusion you wouldn’t have attacked in that manner earlier and been so condescending. I make very logical arguments. It is Ron Paul’s bill 100% he’s been trying to pass for 30 years:

http://www.ronpaul.com/congress/legislation/111th-congress-200910/audit-the-federal-reserve-hr-1207/

You attack because you don’t have a logical counter-argument and you are the only one on the blog that thinks that way.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”[/quote]

You really need to take a class in logic. My response only became condescending when I pointed out the errors in your arguments and you continued to make the same mistakes. Only then did my absolute disdain for your stupid arguments lead to my condescension.

Go hunt for the congressional record that shows that Ron Paul sponsored the amendment that resulted in the fed audit. Or easier, go read the link YOU provided, to Paul’s own site where he acknowledges “The altered Sanders amendment passed the Senate on May 11, 2010 by a unanimous 96-0 vote” and not the Grayson-Paul version he co-sponsored in the house. (He gives a good excuse, but bottom line it was NOT his version that passed.)

Markmax, here’s the difference between you and me. You’re an idealogue with a manichean thought process. You’re a believer, and any evidence in conflict with the belief, you reject, dismiss or ignore. And worse, you treat all criticism as the enemy of your truth, regardless of how benign.

My world is not so black and white. I have no emotional ties to my opinions. I don’t see absolutism, purity or consistency as virtues. I’m not bound by ideologies. I don’t believe or believe in anything. I research and evidence leads to conclusions, not beliefs. End of story. If you have evidence that is better than mine, I win. Because I end up smarter. Unfortunately, I doubt that’s going to happen in this conversation.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=markmax33] . . . Here are the boards in California and there are plenty more I’m sure:

California Air Resources Board
Department of Pesticide Regulation
Department of Toxic Substances Control
Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment
State Water Resources Control Board

Your seawater would be PLENTY safe. He encourages regulation, just not on the Fedreal level. Why do you want to violate the constitution? Environmental regulation is not the powers of the GOV under article 1 section 8 of the constitution. Is it okay all of sudden?

Here is the City of San Diego Environmental department:

http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/deh/

Do you think they are doing a good job? I bet they are? Why do you hate the local agencies and local jobs?[/quote]

markmax, you forgot the ever-present “CA Coastal Commission.”

http://www.coastal.ca.gov/whoweare.html

In the past, it has managed to stymie many a homeowner and business that wished to do something which harmed the environment or gave the appearance of harming it . . . in every way, shape and form.

[bearishgurl]

Our “currently beleaguered” State of CA . . . is truly “agencied” to death. BRING ON the bureaucrats!

We don’t need another layer from Wash DC who is “out of touch” with our particular problems. We need STRONG CONGRESSMEN/WOMEN who have a GREAT memory and an intimate FEEL for the concerns of the populace of their particular “jurisdictions,” among other traits!!!

[bearishgurl]

Oh, and, markmax, you ALSO forgot the County Air Pollution Control District.

http://www.sdapcd.org/

Bring ON the “Kangaroo Court” which is ALIVE, BUSY and WELL in SD County . . . ;=D

Just TRY to get your new mfg biz approved by them . . . lol.

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