Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › Right-Wing Media are Destroying Our Country
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scaredyclassic.
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August 7, 2017 at 6:24 PM #807575August 7, 2017 at 8:05 PM #807576
FlyerInHi
Guest[quote=no_such_reality]
[quote=no_such_reality]
ROFLMAO. I’m sure that wins so many over to your viewpoint.[/quote][quote=FlyerInHi]
What? the free market and wealth aren’t good enough?[/quote]November 8, 2016.
Res ipsa loquitur[/quote]
Ha? What’s your context? So I suppose you would aceept that California is blue because of right wing ideology. Don’t blame Democrats for California, it’s all Republicans’ fault.
August 7, 2017 at 8:45 PM #807578Anonymous
Guest[quote=no_such_reality][quote=harvey][quote=no_such_reality]Don’t worry, you had a part too. ;)[/quote]
You voted for Trump because of me?
I’m flattered, but that sure is pathetic.[/quote]
The irony and hubris in a 9 page thread titled “Right-Wing Media are Destroying Our Country” is delicious.[/quote]
It’s good for a laugh though, that you let me control your decisions.
lol, you’re my bitch.
August 8, 2017 at 9:49 AM #807580Guest[quote=zk][quote=FlyerInHi]
There has to be psychological weakness or knowledge deficiency for one to let oneself be manipulated.
[/quote]I disagree. I think that 90+% of humans are easily manipulated. Maybe you had to start out agreeing with some basic conservative ideas to be manipulated by fox et al. That’s not a weakness or knowledge deficiency. It’s just where you stand. But, if you start there, it’s not that hard to lead you toward less realistic/normal/centrist positions. And, once you’re on the bandwagon, next thing you know, you’re lapping up sean hannity’s nonsense. Just like it wouldn’t be hard to take somebody who starts on the left and make them lap up nonsense from (insert influential, prominent, nonsense-talking left-wing media figure here, if you know of one).
[quote=FlyerInHi]
Like some people are more easily manipulated by their parents, spouses or friends.[/quote]Sure, some people are even more easily manipulated than your average joe. And maybe that’s who you’re talking about above. But your average joe is pretty easily manipulated.[/quote]
ZK, you’re too kind. You treat people with the same human compassion. That’s why I respect and admire you.
But saying that Trumpsters were manipulated absolves them of responsibility. Where is free will and personal responsibility? I think that we need to hold so called conservatives to their own conservative values of bootstrapping and individual responsibility.
I personally don’t have any compassion for Trumpsters’ economic difficulties. Hey, we live in a free country. At one point they had good lives but they didnt reinvest in their own skills or the education of their kids. Too bad, life is not fair.
Some questions to ponder…. Were Nazis manipulated? Are Islamic terrorists manipulated or are they inherently evil? Are KKK klan members manipulated, or they evil?
August 8, 2017 at 11:42 AM #807585zk
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi] Where is free will and personal responsibility? … Were Nazis manipulated? Are Islamic terrorists manipulated or are they inherently evil? Are KKK klan members manipulated, or they evil?[/quote]
Those are excellent and fascinating questions. I don’t know the answers.
Consider this:
The people at Jonestown in South America who killed themselves. The branch davidians. The manson family. Or any other cult. I believe the general consensus is that those people were brainwashed. Which is just a stronger version of manipulated. I think it’s easier for us to accept that people do terrible things due to brainwashing (or manipulation) if it’s a smaller group with a clear leader. We can see exactly what happened. Well, maybe not exactly, but we can see that these people were brainwashed by this one super-charismatic leader and that that’s why they did those things. But if you have a larger and more diffuse group of brainwashed/manipulated people- fans of con man don, islamic terrorists, nazis – with a larger and more diffuse group of manipulators – right-wing media, radical imams, the nazi party and its propagandists – it seems like it’s a bit harder for us to accept that people do bad things because they’ve been manipulated. Maybe it’s hard for us to accept because it’s scary that such large groups of people can be tricked into doing terrible things. But maybe that scary possibility doesn’t make it any less likely.
(FTR, I’m not comparing the transgressions of con man don fans with those of islamic terrorists or nazis).
August 8, 2017 at 3:48 PM #807588GuestI think it’s a combination of manipulation and personal responsibility.
Some people are more suceptible to social influences just like some people are more susceptible me to addictions and cravings. It’s a “weakness” or “disease” of the brain.
When we want to show compassion, we don’t blame people directly for their actions. We could show compassion and understanding to Trump supporters by rationalizing that growing up in the decaying rust belt must deeply affect people.
But when we want to vilify and punish people, we overlook social factors and make them wholly responsible for their situations.
The same thing can be said when taking credit for good things. Trump loves to take credit for good things and blame others for anything bad.
Notice that Trump is the same as his supporters. They suffer excessive pride and they all love to hear that they are the greatest. They take offense very easily, yet they love to be anti-PC so they can “tell it like it is” to other people. Mental weakness or social manipulation?
August 8, 2017 at 8:33 PM #807589Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]I think it’s a combination of manipulation and personal responsibility.
Some people are more suceptible to social influences just like some people are more susceptible me to addictions and cravings. It’s a “weakness” or “disease” of the brain.
When we want to show compassion, we don’t blame people directly for their actions. We could show compassion and understanding to Trump supporters by rationalizing that growing up in the decaying rust belt must deeply affect people.
But when we want to vilify and punish people, we overlook social factors and make them wholly responsible for their situations.
The same thing can be said when taking credit for good things. Trump loves to take credit for good things and blame others for anything bad.
Notice that Trump is the same as his supporters. They suffer excessive pride and they all love to hear that they are the greatest. They take offense very easily, yet they love to be anti-PC so they can “tell it like it is” to other people. Mental weakness or social manipulation?[/quote]
You make good points. I disagree, for the most part, but I will concede that there’s a decent chance that you are correct to a significant degree. Possibly more than I am. I mean who really knows, right? Again, we’ll agree to disagree.
August 9, 2017 at 9:08 AM #807598ParticipantOur president is unfortunately one of the fools falling for the propaganda on right-wing media:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/trump-fake-news/526704/
What a pathetic loser.
August 12, 2017 at 11:55 AM #807634Guest[quote=zk]
You make good points. I disagree, for the most part, but I will concede that there’s a decent chance that you are correct to a significant degree. Possibly more than I am. I mean who really knows, right? Again, we’ll agree to disagree.[/quote]
Zk, something that occurred to me while talking to a friend:
If we assume that humans are the same and easily manipulated, then that makes our population no different from the Russians or Chinese who are manipulated by nationalism and patriotism.
What about American Exceptionalism? When politicians say they “trust the American people”, they imply that the American character is superior and the decisions we take result in good outcomes.
August 12, 2017 at 1:02 PM #807635
svelteParticipant[quote=FlyerInHi]
If we assume that humans are the same and easily manipulated, then that makes our population no different from the Russians or Chinese who are manipulated by nationalism and patriotism.
[/quote]We are ALL manipulated to some degree, whether we like to admit it or not. Every one of us, without exception.
And I’m not sure where the idea that Americans are less susceptible to manipulation than other countries, not sure that is true at all. Look at the facts: most Americans continue to this day to believe in a supreme being that lives forever up in the sky and watches the every move of billions of people. American adults gave up believing in Santa and the Tooth Fairy before hitting puberty, but they continue to be manipulated by organized religion throughout their lives.
August 12, 2017 at 4:14 PM #807636Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]
If we assume that humans are the same and easily manipulated, then that makes our population no different from the Russians or Chinese who are manipulated by nationalism and patriotism.
[/quote]
Of course our population is no different from the Russians or the Chinese. What in the world would make you think otherwise?
[quote=FlyerInHi]
What about American Exceptionalism? When politicians say they “trust the American people”, they imply that the American character is superior and the decisions we take result in good outcomes.[/quote]
American exceptionalism isn’t about our people; it’s about our system of government and about what we’ve achieved and about our (certainly spotted, but generally progressive) history of benevolence towards the rest of the world. Certainly you’re not letting what some politician is selling affect your opinion on this, are you?
That you think American exceptionalism is about our people says something, I think, about you. That you think American people are somehow different from Russians or Chinese says something about you. Susceptibility to manipulation is a basic human trait. To think that Americans would somehow be less susceptible to it than Russians or Chinese is arrogant, hubristic, and xenophobic. And those are the nicer words to describe it.
August 12, 2017 at 9:33 PM #807637GuestAmerican exceptionalism is about culture, which is entirely about our people.
American people are not different from Russians or Chinese people but our culture is very different from any other.
In fact, it’s exceptional.
August 12, 2017 at 10:06 PM #807638SK in CV
Participant[quote=harvey]American exceptionalism is about culture, which is entirely about our people.
American people are not different from Russians or Chinese people but our culture is very different from any other.
In fact, it’s exceptional.[/quote]
Yeah, exceptional. Elected a racist president. Who tells more than a dozen people who are injured by one of his Nazi followers “best regards”. Exceptional culture.
August 13, 2017 at 9:08 AM #807641Guest[quote=SK in CV]Yeah, exceptional. Elected a racist president. Who tells more than a dozen people who are injured by one of his Nazi followers “best regards”. Exceptional culture.[/quote]
Exceptional doesn’t mean perfect.
We’ve certainly taken a step backward and we’ve got some work to do in order to get back on track.
I’m not giving up, I hope you don’t either.
August 13, 2017 at 9:34 AM #807642Participant[quote=harvey]American exceptionalism is about culture, which is entirely about our people.
American people are not different from Russians or Chinese people but our culture is very different from any other.
In fact, it’s exceptional.[/quote]
Well, if it takes a culture to make people different, then the people aren’t different. I think what Brian is saying is that Americans are better before their culture affects them. That they’re born better. As evidenced by this:
If we assume that humans are the same and easily manipulated, then that makes our population no different from the Russians or Chinese who are manipulated by nationalism and patriotism.
He seems to think that Russians and Chinese are susceptible to the manipulative forces in their cultures, but that Americans are not.
I disagree strongly that our culture is exceptional, but that’s another discussion.
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