Right-Wing Media are Destroying Our Country

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=sdduuuude][quote=FlyerInHi]Flu, I think we should have good policies that lift up people and improve aggregate wealth.[/quote]

Who is “we” ?

Ivy league colleges are not public organizations. They should be able to admit or deny whomever they want for any reason without the gubmint telling them what to do.

The mindset of both liberals and conservatives is that they feel they have the right to use government to force everyone to behave the way they want them to behave. It is a basic assumption of both sides that I simply can’t understand.

The entire country seems to have lost their minds in this regard – note FlyerInHi’s comment that he thinks “we should have good policies that lift up people and improve aggregate wealth” as if “we” have the right to decide how Harvard chooses their students.

Arguing over whether or not affirmative action is effective is useless when the whole idea of telling a private institution how to manage their affairs is unethical.

Why not let each school do what they want and let the chips fall where they may ?[/quote]

That’s not what Flu is saying. Flu wants to force Harvard to admit more Asians on merit. He declined to provide his philosophical argument. Flu is not in agreement with your conservative reasoning. In this case, Flu wants to use the government to force private schools to change their policies. Lots of contradictions here.

I’m indifferent how the Ivy League admit their students. I simply feel that Trump supporters via Jeff Sessions are barking up the wrong tree; and the unintended consequences will be to their detriment.

BTW, the university of Michigan, a top public school just undid affirmative action. In 20 years, the ratios will be like UC San Diego. I guarantee you that it will not be kids of middle American Trumo supporters going there. Buy some real estate to rent to Asian students. Ann Arbor is a solid investment. You heard it from me first.

[Anonymous]

What If Obama Said It?

[zk]

Here’s a fantastic article from Jennifer Rubin:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/07/26/the-frightful-state-of-the-gop/?tid=pm_opinions_pop&utm_term=.549d7bff56f8

The whole article really is worth reading. She starts right off with:

A large segment of Republican voters should try turning off Fox News and allowing reality to permeate the shell they’ve constructed to keep out ideas that interfere with their prejudices and abject ignorance. Unfair? Take a look at the latest poll to suggest that Trump voters like their cult hero feel compelled to label inconvenient facts “fake news.” Morning Consult reporters: “A plurality of Republicans say President Donald Trump received more of the popular vote in 2016 than his Democratic rival, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. According to a new Morning Consult/POLITICO poll, 47 percent of Republican voters said Trump outpaced Clinton — despite her nearly 2.9 million-vote advantage after all the states certified their election results.”

Later she says:

If these voters do not know or cannot accept something as simple as vote totals, do we really expect they will be amenable to reason on immigration (sorry, but illegal immigrants aren’t causing a crime wave), global warning (sorry, it’s not a hoax) or uncontroverted evidence of Russian meddling in the election? I’m sure all this makes the Trump staff and surrogates laugh uproariously as they admire their handiwork in bamboozling the angry mob. But they and the network of right-wing enablers have done real damage to our society and politics, making differences impossible to bridge and reasoned debate nearly impossible.

Real damage to our society and politics. It’s good to see that someone agrees with me to some extent, especially an intelligent conservative.

And she’s not even counting the damage that con man don and the other cowards that the ignoratti have elected have done and will continue to do.

[zk]

And Rubin’s comment “making differences impossible to bridge and reasoned debate nearly impossible” is very important.

It’s impossible to debate someone who is starting with a different set of “facts.” God, remember when we didn’t have to put “facts” in quotes? Con man don’s administration has taken fox’s work over the last several decades and run with it. Fox viewers were truth-challenged before, and it’s only gotten worse. How do you use logic, reason, evidence, and facts to debate someone when they’re starting with different “facts”?

[zk]

Back to the subject at hand:

[quote=livinincali]

The study takes people that view themselves in 5 distinct categories. Very left, moderate left, middle, moderate right, and far right. It asks them what their view is of each news network. Those on on the far left had a untrustworthy view of Fox and like far right programming. The far right distrusted most news outlets to the far left. Those in the moderate categories and middle took exception with far right and far left media but most of the mainstream media was fine including regular old Fox news. If that’s not a measure of how the general public perception of bias I don’t know what is.
[/quote]
Cali, you’re the only one here debating “the general public perception of bias.” Everybody else is talking about reporting. Not perception. This has been pointed out to you several times. I’m not sure why you keep ignoring it and changing the subject back to perception.

[quote=livinincali]

The fact that you take so much exception with news media on the right probably means you really probably are in the far left category. You might not view yourself as far left but relative to the general US population you probably are. That’s probably why you and some of the other posters see this asymmetrical bias you like to claim. You see yourself as the middle but don’t realize that you’re actually on the far left compared to the general population.
[/quote]

You’re making a basic assumption here that is incorrect. And that assumption is that conservatives and liberals distrust the media on the “other side” for the same reason.

Let’s call this a hypothetical, just for the purposes if disproving your arguments. (For the record, to me, this is not hypothetical. This is what’s actually happening.):

What if the reporting at the NYT and WAPO are basically in the center (unbiased)? What if the reporting on most mainstream media clusters around the center? And, in this hypothetical, reporting on Fox (and, of course, Drudge, Limbaugh, etc) are heavily biased to the right. And what if liberals distrust right-wing media because it’s actually heavily biased? And what if conservatives distrust mainstream media because that’s what fox has been telling them to do for decades (a process which con man don has intensified and accelerated)?

If all of that is true, then that pew study would look exactly like it does. And mainstream media are not biased and right-wing media are. And it should be clear to you that your (completely illogical to begin with) claim that this study sheds any light on actual reporting is invalid. And it should also show you that there’s another possibility as to why I distrust right-wing media. And that is because it is actually biased, and not because of my political views.

[no_such_reality]

The numbers for July 30, 2017:

Network Program Total Viewers A25-54
CBS Face the Nation 3.268 M 784 k
NBC Meet the Press 3.072 M 882 k
ABC This Week 2.696 M 782 k
FOX Fox News Sunday 1.370 M 446 k
UNI Al Punto N/A N/A

Nightly news looks much the same.

So much fixation on Fox. I don’t watch it, but seems everybody is fixated on them.

[Anonymous]

[quote=no_such_reality]The numbers for July 30, 2017:

Network Program Total Viewers A25-54
CBS Face the Nation 3.268 M 784 k
NBC Meet the Press 3.072 M 882 k
ABC This Week 2.696 M 782 k
FOX Fox News Sunday 1.370 M 446 k
UNI Al Punto N/A N/A

Nightly news looks much the same.

So much fixation on Fox. I don’t watch it, but seems everybody is fixated on them.[/quote]

Are you trying to double-down on being completely wrong today?

You didn’t cite a source but it looks like those are just the Sunday morning news show numbers.

Two minutes of google:

FEBRUARY 2017 VS. FEBRUARY 2016 NIELSEN NUMBERS

TOTAL DAY

FNC: 1,762,000 total viewers – up 32% (368,000 in 25-54 – up 40%)

CNN: 853,000 total viewers – up 17%; (284,000 in 25-54 – up 35%)

MSNBC: 807,000 total viewers – up 54%; (188,000 in 25-54 – up 40%)

PRIMETIME: 8-11PM/ET

FNC 2,916,000 total viewers – up 31% (592,000 in 25-54 – up 39%)

CNN: 1,188,000 total viewers – down 26%; (425,000 in 25-54 – down 15%)

MSNBC: 1,496,000 total viewers – up 55%; (345,000 in 25-54 – up 41%)

PRIMETIME: 7-11PM/ET

FNC: 2,794,000 total viewers – up 30%; (558,000 in 25-54 – up 39%)

CNN: 1,173,000 total viewers – down 18%; (415,000 in 25-54 – down 5%)

MSNBC: 1,420,000 total viewers – up 52%; (322,000 in 25-54 – up 42%)

FOX NEWS CHANNEL TOPS CABLE IN TOTAL DAY VIEWERS FOR RECORD EIGHT CONSECUTIVE MONTHS

The O’Reilly Factor Marked a Record with the Highest-Rated Quarter For Any Program in Cable News History

Every Hour on FNC from 6AM-11PM/ET Claimed a Record High in FNC’s 20-Year History

Millennials Watched FNC More Than Any Other Cable News Network in 1Q’17

FOX NEWS CHANNEL DELIVERS HIGHEST-RATED QUARTER IN CABLE NEWS HISTORY IN 24 HOUR VIEWERSHIP TOPPING ALL OF CABLE IN PRIMETIME AND TOTAL DAY

Fox News finished far and above its competition in the ratings for the first quarter of 2017, with the network putting up the highest-rated quarter ever in cable news history in the total day viewership measure, according to Nielsen data released Tuesday. This marks 61 consecutive quarters that Fox News has finished number one among cable news networks in total day and primetime viewership.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/cable-news-ratings-fox-news-msnbc-1202017940/

No credible source doubts that Fox dominates the news ratings. Where are you getting these “facts?”

Much of the data shows that Fox is bigger than CNN And MSNBC combined. And that has been the case for years.

[no_such_reality]

http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/evening-news-ratings-week-of-july-24-2/336954

Numbers for the week of July 24, 2017:

ABC NBC CBS
• Total Viewers:7,553,000 7,212,000 5,574,000
• A25-54: 1,553,000 1,594,000 1,167,000

[Anonymous]

That article doesn’t even have numbers for Fox.

Your “data” doesn’t support any argument at all.

[FlyerInHi]

Zk, why do you think the Trump base considers facts optional and truth unknowable?

1. Religion which is the suspension of critical thinking. Lots of practice right there.
2. Low IQ
3. White privilege which is basically the thinking that they are entitled to superior social and economic status no matter what.

Science, education and globalization laid bare the foundations of their culture which is not based on principles but on grubbiness.

Principles which they feigned to espouse (free markets, hard work, initiative, rewards for the brightest, etc.. ) when they had monopoly are now coming to bite them in the ass. So the last refuge of the scoundrel is Trump and Fox New which allows them to suspend reality. But the world goes on…..

[zk]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Zk, why do you think the Trump base considers facts optional and truth unknowable?

1. Religion which is the suspension of critical thinking. Lots of practice right there.
2. Low IQ
3. White privilege which is basically the thinking that they are entitled to superior social and economic status no matter what.

[/quote]

None of the above. I think it’s because they’ve been emotionally manipulated over the past 30 years by right-wing media (an effect amplified by sharing on social media) to think that way.

[zk]

Jennifer Rubin, a conservative columnist, thinks that “A large segment of Republican voters” possess “abject ignorance.”

Let that sink in.

This is not how a democracy is supposed to work.

That abject ignorance doesn’t come from not watching the “news.” It comes from watching right-wing media. Right-wing media are turning our democracy into a charade where facts don’t matter and manipulation wins the day.

When I say they’re destroying our country, note the tense I use. I’m not saying they’ve destroyed it. I’m saying they’re destroying it. If the ignoratti keep voting based on the disinformation they’re receiving, we’ll continue to lose our standing in the world, we’ll continue to lose the things this country stands for, populist economic policies will make us all poorer, and, if all of this lasts long enough, we’ll go from being the greatest country in the world to being a third-rate country.

[FlyerInHi]

Manipulated by the right wing media; humm… I can accept that but what enables the manipulation.

You and I live in the same environment but we don’t buy the right wing media.
I personally don’t even buy the American Exceptionalism mantra. Even before the internet, before I could easily read the foreign press, I tried to look at our foreign policy motivations and what the pushback may be.

There has to be psychological weakness or knowledge deficiency for one to let oneself be manipulated. Like some people are more easily manipulated by their parents, spouses or friends.

I just saw your latest post. Abject ignorance. There you go. And given free wil, why would one get into that state? Maybe path of least resistance because doing otherwise requires more brain power.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=harvey]That article doesn’t even have numbers for Fox.

Your “data” doesn’t support any argument at all.[/quote]

Sheesh, the same site has data for Hannity, Fox News, CNN, you can look at the numbers.

Fact, the three major news networks nightly news broadcasts together have over 20 million viewers.

Cable news Fox, from your numbers, around 2.9M.

Of course, three major networks (CBS,NBC & ABC each have over 7M viewers of their news.

And of course, with 130M people voting, it’s the 2.9 million that tuned into Fox versus the 2.5 million that tuned into CNN and MSNBC that dominated everything.

ESPN had almost as many primetime watchers as FNC.

Talk about doubling down on being wrong.

[zk]

[quote=FlyerInHi]
There has to be psychological weakness or knowledge deficiency for one to let oneself be manipulated.
[/quote]

I disagree. I think that 90+% of humans are easily manipulated. Maybe you had to start out agreeing with some basic conservative ideas to be manipulated by fox et al. That’s not a weakness or knowledge deficiency. It’s just where you stand. But, if you start there, it’s not that hard to lead you toward less realistic/normal/centrist positions. And, once you’re on the bandwagon, next thing you know, you’re lapping up sean hannity’s nonsense. Just like it wouldn’t be hard to take somebody who starts on the left and make them lap up nonsense from (insert influential, prominent, nonsense-talking left-wing media figure here, if you know of one).

[quote=FlyerInHi]
Like some people are more easily manipulated by their parents, spouses or friends.[/quote]

Sure, some people are even more easily manipulated than your average joe. And maybe that’s who you’re talking about above. But your average joe is pretty easily manipulated.

[Author]

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