Reminder: Your massive property taxes are due

[UCGal]

[quote=dbapig]Is there anyone on this thread who’s old enough to remember what happened to schools when prop 13 passed?

I heard someone talk about what happened in his high school when this passed. He said the following year most of the after school programs were cancelled for lack of fund.

This thread made me look into prop 13 in more detail. Looks like negatives outweigh positives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)

One more thing. I recently got to talk to a South Korean citizen about schools etc. He’s here for grad school and his son attends an elementary school. He told me he was so shocked to see cutting education budget was one of the first responses when the budget crisis hit CA. When the IMF crisis hit Asia and S Korea, govt and companies were cutting anything and everything. However even during that wrenching time, laying off teachers was never discussed. Not one teacher was laid off for budget reason.

I know the 2 nations have different make up of population and one has big illegal immigration problem but still something to think about.[/quote]

I’m going to raise my hand and admit I’m old enough to remember. It’s not quite as clear cut as you show it.

Yes – budgets were cut to schools with Prop 13… and to a lot of other services. I was in high school when it passed – so I didn’t feel the effect till the cuts hit the CSU system a few years later.

The CA lottery came online around that time to “make up the difference” – all of the revenue from the lottery is *supposed* to go to schools. It obviously doesn’t. I was at SDSU in the early 80’s when they literally cut every part time and non-tenured professor. It was impossible to get classes… Crashing at the beginning of the semester was ruthless! They also cut back hours to Love Library, etc.

That said – I’m watching with an apples to apples comparison… My kids are attending the same elementary school that I did. When I attended in the 60’s (pre-prop 13) class sizes were much larger than they are today. So some things improved after (despite?) prop 13.

I also live on a block where at least half of the residents either bought from their parents or have lived there since pre-prop13… Obviously, as a group, we’re not paying our “fair share”. But it’s hard to say that a person who bought a house to live in for $25k in 1964 should pay taxes on it at the market rate of ~$650k.

Ironically – I paid more in property taxes on a much less expensive home outside Philadelphia. Elementary schools are comparable.

[briansd1]

I believe that the only way California can solve its fiscal problems without massive new taxes is to take back the pensions.

It looks like an Enron type problem of off balance sheet debts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06,0,1985775.story

California’s $500-billion pension time bomb
The staggering amount of unfunded debt stands to crowd out funding for many popular programs. Reform will take something sadly lacking in the Legislature: political courage.

For those clamoring about schools:

legislators fight harder to overturn employee furloughs than to reform pensions and elect to pay more in compensation to just 65,000 employees in one single department — corrections — than they spend on a higher education system serving 10 times as many people.

[briansd1]

I believe that the only way California can solve its fiscal problems without massive new taxes is to take back the pensions.

It looks like an Enron type problem of off balance sheet debts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06,0,1985775.story

California’s $500-billion pension time bomb
The staggering amount of unfunded debt stands to crowd out funding for many popular programs. Reform will take something sadly lacking in the Legislature: political courage.

For those clamoring about schools:

legislators fight harder to overturn employee furloughs than to reform pensions and elect to pay more in compensation to just 65,000 employees in one single department — corrections — than they spend on a higher education system serving 10 times as many people.

[briansd1]

I believe that the only way California can solve its fiscal problems without massive new taxes is to take back the pensions.

It looks like an Enron type problem of off balance sheet debts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06,0,1985775.story

California’s $500-billion pension time bomb
The staggering amount of unfunded debt stands to crowd out funding for many popular programs. Reform will take something sadly lacking in the Legislature: political courage.

For those clamoring about schools:

legislators fight harder to overturn employee furloughs than to reform pensions and elect to pay more in compensation to just 65,000 employees in one single department — corrections — than they spend on a higher education system serving 10 times as many people.

[briansd1]

I believe that the only way California can solve its fiscal problems without massive new taxes is to take back the pensions.

It looks like an Enron type problem of off balance sheet debts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06,0,1985775.story

California’s $500-billion pension time bomb
The staggering amount of unfunded debt stands to crowd out funding for many popular programs. Reform will take something sadly lacking in the Legislature: political courage.

For those clamoring about schools:

legislators fight harder to overturn employee furloughs than to reform pensions and elect to pay more in compensation to just 65,000 employees in one single department — corrections — than they spend on a higher education system serving 10 times as many people.

[briansd1]

I believe that the only way California can solve its fiscal problems without massive new taxes is to take back the pensions.

It looks like an Enron type problem of off balance sheet debts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06,0,1985775.story

California’s $500-billion pension time bomb
The staggering amount of unfunded debt stands to crowd out funding for many popular programs. Reform will take something sadly lacking in the Legislature: political courage.

For those clamoring about schools:

legislators fight harder to overturn employee furloughs than to reform pensions and elect to pay more in compensation to just 65,000 employees in one single department — corrections — than they spend on a higher education system serving 10 times as many people.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that the only way California can solve its fiscal problems without massive new taxes is to take back the pensions.

It looks like an Enron type problem of off balance sheet debts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06,0,1985775.story

California’s $500-billion pension time bomb
The staggering amount of unfunded debt stands to crowd out funding for many popular programs. Reform will take something sadly lacking in the Legislature: political courage.

For those clamoring about schools:

legislators fight harder to overturn employee furloughs than to reform pensions and elect to pay more in compensation to just 65,000 employees in one single department — corrections — than they spend on a higher education system serving 10 times as many people.

[/quote]

Brian,

I was a public school teacher, and I’ve known a few people who were prison guards. Lots of people want to become teachers, but very few want to be prison guards.

Let me tell you, there is not enough money in the world that would persuade me to become a prison guard. Again, if you think it’s such an overpaid, easy job, why aren’t you doing it? Do it first, then tell us about reducing compensation.

I do agree with you regarding the fact that we imprison too many people who don’t belong in jail, and think we really need to consider legalizing pot (which I do not smoke, BTW); but prison guards (and cops, in general) have one of the toughest jobs out there.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that the only way California can solve its fiscal problems without massive new taxes is to take back the pensions.

It looks like an Enron type problem of off balance sheet debts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06,0,1985775.story

California’s $500-billion pension time bomb
The staggering amount of unfunded debt stands to crowd out funding for many popular programs. Reform will take something sadly lacking in the Legislature: political courage.

For those clamoring about schools:

legislators fight harder to overturn employee furloughs than to reform pensions and elect to pay more in compensation to just 65,000 employees in one single department — corrections — than they spend on a higher education system serving 10 times as many people.

[/quote]

Brian,

I was a public school teacher, and I’ve known a few people who were prison guards. Lots of people want to become teachers, but very few want to be prison guards.

Let me tell you, there is not enough money in the world that would persuade me to become a prison guard. Again, if you think it’s such an overpaid, easy job, why aren’t you doing it? Do it first, then tell us about reducing compensation.

I do agree with you regarding the fact that we imprison too many people who don’t belong in jail, and think we really need to consider legalizing pot (which I do not smoke, BTW); but prison guards (and cops, in general) have one of the toughest jobs out there.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that the only way California can solve its fiscal problems without massive new taxes is to take back the pensions.

It looks like an Enron type problem of off balance sheet debts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06,0,1985775.story

California’s $500-billion pension time bomb
The staggering amount of unfunded debt stands to crowd out funding for many popular programs. Reform will take something sadly lacking in the Legislature: political courage.

For those clamoring about schools:

legislators fight harder to overturn employee furloughs than to reform pensions and elect to pay more in compensation to just 65,000 employees in one single department — corrections — than they spend on a higher education system serving 10 times as many people.

[/quote]

Brian,

I was a public school teacher, and I’ve known a few people who were prison guards. Lots of people want to become teachers, but very few want to be prison guards.

Let me tell you, there is not enough money in the world that would persuade me to become a prison guard. Again, if you think it’s such an overpaid, easy job, why aren’t you doing it? Do it first, then tell us about reducing compensation.

I do agree with you regarding the fact that we imprison too many people who don’t belong in jail, and think we really need to consider legalizing pot (which I do not smoke, BTW); but prison guards (and cops, in general) have one of the toughest jobs out there.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that the only way California can solve its fiscal problems without massive new taxes is to take back the pensions.

It looks like an Enron type problem of off balance sheet debts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06,0,1985775.story

California’s $500-billion pension time bomb
The staggering amount of unfunded debt stands to crowd out funding for many popular programs. Reform will take something sadly lacking in the Legislature: political courage.

For those clamoring about schools:

legislators fight harder to overturn employee furloughs than to reform pensions and elect to pay more in compensation to just 65,000 employees in one single department — corrections — than they spend on a higher education system serving 10 times as many people.

[/quote]

Brian,

I was a public school teacher, and I’ve known a few people who were prison guards. Lots of people want to become teachers, but very few want to be prison guards.

Let me tell you, there is not enough money in the world that would persuade me to become a prison guard. Again, if you think it’s such an overpaid, easy job, why aren’t you doing it? Do it first, then tell us about reducing compensation.

I do agree with you regarding the fact that we imprison too many people who don’t belong in jail, and think we really need to consider legalizing pot (which I do not smoke, BTW); but prison guards (and cops, in general) have one of the toughest jobs out there.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that the only way California can solve its fiscal problems without massive new taxes is to take back the pensions.

It looks like an Enron type problem of off balance sheet debts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06,0,1985775.story

California’s $500-billion pension time bomb
The staggering amount of unfunded debt stands to crowd out funding for many popular programs. Reform will take something sadly lacking in the Legislature: political courage.

For those clamoring about schools:

legislators fight harder to overturn employee furloughs than to reform pensions and elect to pay more in compensation to just 65,000 employees in one single department — corrections — than they spend on a higher education system serving 10 times as many people.

[/quote]

Brian,

I was a public school teacher, and I’ve known a few people who were prison guards. Lots of people want to become teachers, but very few want to be prison guards.

Let me tell you, there is not enough money in the world that would persuade me to become a prison guard. Again, if you think it’s such an overpaid, easy job, why aren’t you doing it? Do it first, then tell us about reducing compensation.

I do agree with you regarding the fact that we imprison too many people who don’t belong in jail, and think we really need to consider legalizing pot (which I do not smoke, BTW); but prison guards (and cops, in general) have one of the toughest jobs out there.

[scaredyclassic]

prison guard and teacher are very similar lines of work. I think most normal people would not be happy working in a prison. Or a school…anywhere the servced population is compelled by the force of law to be is going to be a bad place for the soul..

[scaredyclassic]

prison guard and teacher are very similar lines of work. I think most normal people would not be happy working in a prison. Or a school…anywhere the servced population is compelled by the force of law to be is going to be a bad place for the soul..

[scaredyclassic]

prison guard and teacher are very similar lines of work. I think most normal people would not be happy working in a prison. Or a school…anywhere the servced population is compelled by the force of law to be is going to be a bad place for the soul..

[scaredyclassic]

prison guard and teacher are very similar lines of work. I think most normal people would not be happy working in a prison. Or a school…anywhere the servced population is compelled by the force of law to be is going to be a bad place for the soul..

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