Reasons I cannot vote for Trump

[flu]

[quote=njtosd][quote=flu-redux]
I grew up working my ass off, just like my parents did. I was raised with the mentality that no one owes you shit, and not to count on anyone. I was raised with the mentality that life ain’t fair, and somewhere along the line, its not going to be an even playing field, and even when that’s the case, stop making sorry ass excuses for yourself, because no one cares. And I was also raised with the notion that so long as you spend more time self improving and less time bitching about the injustices of the world, you would be a much more productive member of society and productive for yourself.

[/quote]

Just to play the devil’s advocate (and I am in favor of working hard . . . ) – if you cannot count on anyone, if people simply accept that life isn’t fair, if no one really cares and if no one is willing to combat the injustices of the world – the world will give people just those things. There should be people out there rallying for fair treatment, correcting or at least minimizing the injustices and thinking beyond simply their own needs. People need to get mad when there is unfairness, not just buckle under and work harder. Life isn’t fair but we should always work to make it so, even if we know we won’t succeed. All said, though, this should never be used as an excuse.[/quote]

Well, sure. But that doesn’t seem to be what is happening in the trump camp is it? Let’s see, let’s solve this problem by attacking latinos, Muslims, and to a lesser extent, Asian and Indian H1Bs.

If trump was such an advocate of worker rights, how about simply stating we are going to be enforcing existing immigration laws to ensure we have people who are legally authorized to be here. How about stating we are going to be providing job training to those that have left behind?
The best thing Trump can do is say “we are going to eliminate estate taxes???” Really? Come on, don’t you think this is just ridiculous? You have a bunch of uneducated unskilled underemployed people in the Rustbelt region that are claiming illegals are stealing their minimum wage jobs. And the solution trump comes with is lower estate taxes??????
That might benefit Mr, how does that help some person on minimum wage? And yet, people STILL think he can help their plight?

It seems like it’s almost like trump is testing exactly what he can throw out out there before his supporters actually start to think, just to see what sort of nonsense he can get away with. Meanwhile, keep people that don’t think filled with hate so they miss the bigger picture….

When did this “problem” become a personal issue with a particular group of people? That isnt being an advocate. Thats just plain irresponsible as a leader. It doesn’t matter how you soon it.

I am certainly no fan of Bernie, but at least his intention was to help people, as unrealistic as some of his ideas were.

Tla good portion of trump supporters eant to latch onto the easiest thing possible, hate and blame. Why? Because it’s a lot easier than doing the much harder thing
..Work… apparently, people arent desperate enough just yet to actually motivate for the later.

The way these people want to solve the problem is by limiting others, without willing to put the time and effort in themselves. No different than affirmative action.

[njtosd]

[quote=flu-redux][quote=njtosd][quote=flu-redux]
I grew up working my ass off, just like my parents did. I was raised with the mentality that no one owes you shit, and not to count on anyone. I was raised with the mentality that life ain’t fair, and somewhere along the line, its not going to be an even playing field, and even when that’s the case, stop making sorry ass excuses for yourself, because no one cares. And I was also raised with the notion that so long as you spend more time self improving and less time bitching about the injustices of the world, you would be a much more productive member of society and productive for yourself.

[/quote]

Just to play the devil’s advocate (and I am in favor of working hard . . . ) – if you cannot count on anyone, if people simply accept that life isn’t fair, if no one really cares and if no one is willing to combat the injustices of the world – the world will give people just those things. There should be people out there rallying for fair treatment, correcting or at least minimizing the injustices and thinking beyond simply their own needs. People need to get mad when there is unfairness, not just buckle under and work harder. Life isn’t fair but we should always work to make it so, even if we know we won’t succeed. All said, though, this should never be used as an excuse.[/quote]

Well, sure. But that doesn’t seem to be what is happening in the trump camp is it? Let’s see, let’s solve this problem by attacking latinos, Muslims, and to a lesser extent, Asian and Indian H1Bs.

If trump was such an advocate of worker rights, how about simply stating we are going to be enforcing existing immigration laws to ensure we have people who are legally authorized to be here. How about stating we are going to be providing job training to those that have left behind?
The best thing Trump can do is say “we are going to eliminate estate taxes???” Really? Come on, don’t you think this is just ridiculous? You have a bunch of uneducated unskilled underemployed people in the Rustbelt region that are claiming illegals are stealing their minimum wage jobs. And the solution trump comes with is lower estate taxes??????
That might benefit Mr, how does that help some person on minimum wage? And yet, people STILL think he can help their plight?

It seems like it’s almost like trump is testing exactly what he can throw out out there before his supporters actually start to think, just to see what sort of nonsense he can get away with. Meanwhile, keep people that don’t think filled with hate so they miss the bigger picture….

When did this “problem” become a personal issue with a particular group of people? That isnt being an advocate. Thats just plain irresponsible as a leader. It doesn’t matter how you soon it.

I am certainly no fan of Bernie, but at least his intention was to help people, as unrealistic as some of his ideas were.

Tla good portion of trump supporters eant to latch onto the easiest thing possible, hate and blame. Why? Because it’s a lot easier than doing the much harder thing
..Work… apparently, people arent desperate enough just yet to actually motivate for the later.

The way these people want to solve the problem is by limiting others, without willing to put the time and effort in themselves. No different than affirmative action.[/quote]

I agree with what you’re saying and I don’t like Trump. I just worry about the attitude of “keep your head down, work hard and learn how to deal with whatever is doled out”. It reminds me of Russia in the 70s – not that I have anything against Russia . . Although the attitude that you describe works, it isn’t very pleasant – and accepts the premise that we cannot expect a lot of joy in life.

In short – there are a lot of ways to skin a cat – some better than others. A combination of hard work plus a reasonable resistance to unreasonable policies is the best route – in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

For flu:

http://mashable.com/2016/10/05/racist-fox-news-segment-angers-asian-americans/?utm_cid=hp-h-7#sv1L8u7mmsqg

‘Racist’ Fox News piece blasted by Asian-Americans and people with basic sense of decency

What followed was pretty much every tired, offensive Asian stereotype you could fit into five minutes of television.

There were gongs. “Kung Fu Fighting” played in the background. At one point, they played a random clip of Mr. Miyagi (who, by the way, was fictional and Japanese).

Watters asks a few stupid questions like, “Do you know karate?” (also Japanese) and “Is it the year of the dragon?” (It’s the year of the monkey.)

Of course we already have ample evidence on this board that Trump’s base is not the “basic sense of decency” demographic.

[Coronita]

[quote=harvey]For flu:

http://mashable.com/2016/10/05/racist-fox-news-segment-angers-asian-americans/?utm_cid=hp-h-7#sv1L8u7mmsqg

‘Racist’ Fox News piece blasted by Asian-Americans and people with basic sense of decency

What followed was pretty much every tired, offensive Asian stereotype you could fit into five minutes of television.

There were gongs. “Kung Fu Fighting” played in the background. At one point, they played a random clip of Mr. Miyagi (who, by the way, was fictional and Japanese).

Watters asks a few stupid questions like, “Do you know karate?” (also Japanese) and “Is it the year of the dragon?” (It’s the year of the monkey.)

Of course we already have ample evidence on this board that Trump’s base is not the “basic sense of decency” demographic.[/quote]

Saw that. Stuff like this doesn’t make me mad. It’s stupid, and it’s more of reflection of the stupidity and ignorance of the people saying this, usually people of low class and low character, people that I call trash and would never give the time and day to. At the end of the day, dumb people like this who are in un-important and insignificant positions in life don’t affect my kid’s opportunities, or my kid’s future. So if they want to be a dumbass, well be my guest.

What I do care about are the people who are in office or running for office or positions of influence who do this. And it doesn’t matter which party they are from. There were plenty of CA politicians that really screwed up when it came to SCA-5. And there are many politicians that are screwing up now at the national level from the opposite party. So, sometimes you just got to know when to pick your fights. All this points to is the virtues of people who are moderates in the middle.

[Anonymous]

[quote=flu]What I do care about are the people who are in office or running for office or positions of influence who do this.[/quote]

The people who made this are one in the same as people who are in office. They do have influence.

Hope you got a laugh out of it. I did.

[FlyerInHi]

That Fox piece is kinda funny and stupid in a sad way. Shows how ignorant the Fox audience is. I couldn’t watch all of if.

Lots of Americans are not in touch and still perceive China as backwards. So when they hear about the Chinese buying companies, or houses in places like Irvine, they are in shock and upset: “how can this be possible? They must have cheated.”

The simple truth is that China joined the global market decades ago and the size of the Chinese economy is now nearly that of the USA. That’s a lot money and wealth floating around. A rich American might buy a second home in Aspen or Palm Springs. But a rich Chinese family would buy a house near UC Irvine. Different priorities.

[flu]

Well like I said, there are people who put in the effort to self improve and there are people who would rather not and take cheap shots at those who do and eventually surpass them. I don’t think folks that this would appeal to are necessarily in an envious economic position, considering they are the ones complaining about the lack of opportunity. Lol.

Older people, I think they are hopeless, so nothing is going to fix their problem. The way to fix this is at a younger age when they are still young and have the ability willingness to self improve. That’s why I spent some of my time with kids that aren’t necessarily good with math and science at school. Just because their parents aren’t good at it doesn’t mean they have to be pigeon holed the same way. I was shocked that for many parents, their understanding of math stops around 5-6th grade here in this country, as some.has spoken to me. That’s a big issue because when you have one teacher teaching 28kodd and spending only about 2-3 hours a day, a lot of child’s are going to get left behind

[njtosd]

[quote=flu-redux]I was shocked that for many parents, their understanding of math stops around 5-6th grade here in this country, as some.has spoken to me. That’s a big issue because when you have one teacher teaching 28kodd and spending only about 2-3 hours a day, a lot of child’s are going to get left behind[/quote]

What’s worse is that I have found few elementary teachers who love math or science. Most have a similar comprehension to what you are describing – yet they are responsible for teaching these kids who may not have a lot of support at home. Most kids in the Carmel Valley neck of the woods, as you know, are put in with tutors, after school programs, or Khan Academy to make up for it. It’s a shame for our school district and for virtually every other school district .

[Coronita]

Speaking of racist jokes… You guys remember the prank that happened in the Bay Area news channel KTVU Channel 2, when the Asiana flight crashed?

If you missed it….

Ok, I have to admit, I laughed….

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=njtosd]

I agree with what you’re saying and I don’t like Trump. I just worry about the attitude of “keep your head down, work hard and learn how to deal with whatever is doled out”. It reminds me of Russia in the 70s – not that I have anything against Russia . . Although the attitude that you describe works, it isn’t very pleasant – and accepts the premise that we cannot expect a lot of joy in life.

In short – there are a lot of ways to skin a cat – some better than others. A combination of hard work plus a reasonable resistance to unreasonable policies is the best route – in my opinion.[/quote]

It’s interesting you should say this… because I agree.

For many years, the Republican mantra was hard work and everybody else is lazy. The problem with hardwork only is that when other people work harder, then you’re kinda screwed.

Trump supporters don’t work that hard, and now they are crying foul “unfair, unfair, unfair” rather than getting off their fat asses.

zk has mentioned earlier that some upper middle class people are voting Trump. I know one such person and it goes like this… The guy is a contractor; we was setup by his dad. He’s maybe a C+ CalState level, and dad didn’t go to college. They have a good life, own an apartment building, a lake house, toys, etc… They live in Huntington Beach, did pretty well, flipped some houses. Guess what? They fly the don’t-tread-on-me flag, vote for Trump and bitch about Obama. Why? Because they don’t like that Asians have bought up all of Fountain Valley and encroaching on Huntington Beach. Asians are buying all of Irvine. Houses are too expensive so they can’t compete and flip anymore.

Well, the immigrant families simply worked harder to earn their money. They opened businesses. Their kids study hard and get straight As at UC, not calstate. Hispanics are getting established; they learned English and running their own contracting businesses.

So those Trump supporters know that the bar is being raised and they are feeling under pressure. Do they teach math to their kids? Not really… easier to vote for Trump and bitch. And they don’t support policies that would provide opportunities for everyone. Policies their own kids may one day need.

[La Jolla Renter]

[quote=njtosd][quote=flu-redux]I was shocked that for many parents, their understanding of math stops around 5-6th grade here in this country, as some.has spoken to me. That’s a big issue because when you have one teacher teaching 28kodd and spending only about 2-3 hours a day, a lot of child’s are going to get left behind[/quote]

What’s worse is that I have found few elementary teachers who love math or science. Most have a similar comprehension to what you are describing – yet they are responsible for teaching these kids who may not have a lot of support at home. Most kids in the Carmel Valley neck of the woods, as you know, are put in with tutors, after school programs, or Khan Academy to make up for it. It’s a shame for our school district and for virtually every other school district .[/quote]

Why is our education system so fvcked up? If you spend the most in the world, shouldn’t you rank at least in the top 10?

I don’t think our education system has improved even a bit in the last 8 years. The media sure doesn’t want to report the truth about education… why it would hurt their cause.

[Coronita]

[quote=La Jolla Renter]

Why is our education system so fvcked up? If you spend the most in the world, shouldn’t you rank at least in the top 10?

I don’t think our education system has improved even a bit in the last 8 years. The media sure doesn’t want to report the truth about education… why it would hurt their cause.[/quote]

I don’t think or education being effed is the only problem. I think a lot of it has to do with mentality of what kids are taught should/shouldn’t do. A lot of this probably comes from the focus and/or influence from their parents. For example, out of 280 kids, guess how many of them wanted to do FLL Robotics?.. About 10%…Out of that, guess how many of them are girls that wanted to do this? 25% of that. And money isn’t the problem. Granted an EV3 is $500 each, the school has a few of them from donations. The teacher that is volunteering to run this is a good STEMs teacher. And there’s plenty of parent volunteers that are involved, roughly 8, to coaching/teaching isn’t the problem. And its not for a grade or has a lot of busywork homework. It’s meant for kids to have fun and learn something in the process. And yet, only 10% are interested. Now why is that?

My gut feeling is that a lot of parents aren’t comfortable with certain subjects when they were in school, avoided it, and now that their kids are going through the same subject(s) there’s lack of realization of how these things are relevant or important. I see a lot of kids spend a lot of time practicing sports, dance, art, etc, because parents care about their kids being good at those things.. And that’s great. Now, how many parents spend as much time encouraging their kids to practice math or science or writing?…. No wait, that’s “homework and studying”. That’s different. We shouldn’t burden the kid with too much homework and studying……forget about just like everything else, the only way people really get capable at something is via practice.

Now, if this sort of thing happens even in a school district in which parents tend to care more about their kid’s education and future, (afterall they are willing to pay a premium for the school district) I’m just curious how it would be elsewhere.

[Coronita]

speaking of which ….

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-06/americans-aren-t-so-worried-about-immigrants-taking-their-jobs

“The attitude of voters about immigration and jobs is a lot more nuanced than the current election campaign might have you believe.
Just ten years ago, people were about twice as likely to say immigrants to the U.S. were hurting American workers (55 percent) as helping (28 percent). Today, they are almost evenly split (45 percent to 42 percent), according to a new Pew Research Center survey conducted in association with the Markle Foundation.”

[Hobie]

[quote=flu]Speaking of racist jokes… You guys remember the prank that happened in the Bay Area news channel KTVU Channel 2, when the Asiana flight crashed?

If you missed it….

Ok, I have to admit, I laughed….[/quote]

I would so like it if more people pranked our media. Not so much as to show their bias, but to show the lack of smarts to vet stories and rush to be the first to scoop the rest.

[svelte]

[quote=Hobie][quote=flu]Speaking of racist jokes… You guys remember the prank that happened in the Bay Area news channel KTVU Channel 2, when the Asiana flight crashed?

If you missed it….

Ok, I have to admit, I laughed….[/quote]

I would so like it if more people pranked our media. Not so much as to show their bias, but to show the lack of smarts to vet stories and rush to be the first to scoop the rest.[/quote]

People prank the media all the time, and I love it!

Look at 8:54 on this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlaTWl4Zkuc

(1:30 on that video is good too)

And then there is the new trend to say this whenever there is a live mic (0:00 in vids, nsfw):

[Author]

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