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Balboa.
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October 3, 2016 at 7:42 AM #801754October 3, 2016 at 7:46 AM #801755
SK in CV
Participant[quote=no_such_reality]It’s actually sad watching the majority of the public being played with “squirrel”. World leader you like and respect … Or just glossing over “may”, $915M capital loss, that’s yuge, but I carried capital losses for a lot of the 2000s too.
[/quote]
It wasn’t a capital loss. It’s an operating business loss. He ran a business that he lost almost a billion dollars of his own money. It was almost 2% of all net operating losses for all returns filed in 1995. Out of ever $100 lost in businesses across the country, Trump lost $2 of them. It may have been the biggest single loss of its kind of all time.
October 3, 2016 at 8:45 AM #801756no_such_reality
ParticipantCapital loss, operating loss, doesn’t really matter. The tax and business laws are (were) such that maximizing the paper loss ( real losses too) allows carry forward. Then discharging that loss with a BK.
I did loss realization thing in 2001 & 2002, I maximized my realized taxable losses to minimize taxes going forward. I still had more money than I had in 2000, I just didn’t have the vapor money I had in 2001. I skipped the BK part.
He lost a billion and 20 years later not only is still standing, but living larger.
I can point to all sorts of successful business that have lost a billion in any given year.
None of which changes my mind on not voting for him.
October 3, 2016 at 8:51 AM #801757
Rich ToscanoKeymasterInteresting thoughts from Hempton on the tax thing:
http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2016/10/some-comments-on-new-york-times-story.html
October 3, 2016 at 9:37 AM #801758Participant[quote=no_such_reality]Capital loss, operating loss, doesn’t really matter. The tax and business laws are (were) such that maximizing the paper loss ( real losses too) allows carry forward. Then discharging that loss with a BK.
I did loss realization thing in 2001 & 2002, I maximized my realized taxable losses to minimize taxes going forward. I still had more money than I had in 2000, I just didn’t have the vapor money I had in 2001. I skipped the BK part.
He lost a billion and 20 years later not only is still standing, but living larger.
I can point to all sorts of successful business that have lost a billion in any given year.
None of which changes my mind on not voting for him.[/quote]
It wasn’t a paper loss. It was a real loss. It wasn’t his stock losing value. Or likely even his real estate losing value. It was an operating loss.
It does really matter whether it was an operating loss or a capital loss. A $billion ordinary loss could cut his income tax bill by $400 million. A capital loss cuts his (and your) income by no more than $3,000 per year and tax by not much more than $1,200 a year. Maybe forever.
And I’m pretty sure you can’t point to very many individuals who have lost a billion dollars in one year on an operating business.
October 3, 2016 at 9:38 AM #801759Participantdup.
October 3, 2016 at 9:39 AM #801761an
Participant[quote=flu][quote=AN][quote=flu]I can’t believe I’m turning into a democrat…..
What the hell is the world coming too?
Ok, in the bare minimum I’ll keep my RINO status.
I do like Assembly Member Brian Maienschein in my district.[/quote]
So you’ve finally embraced affirmative action huh?[/quote]absolutely not…. Brian Maienschein was against SCA-5 actually. But, sometimes you got to pick the immediate battles to fight. :)[/quote]
But if you’re turning into a democrat, then why would you be voting for Brian Maienschein?October 3, 2016 at 9:40 AM #801760ParticipantGreat article link Rich!
I’d guess as a starting place to look would be Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts established in 1995 and BK’d in 2004 at about $1.8B in debt.
Which then renamed Trump Entertainment … that BK’d again in 2009 at another $1.2B.
If the business entity held the parked debt and failed to collect in nine years, an then another 5 would it still be enforceable?
Madoff debt parking ponzi scheme? Capone-esque tax avoidance?
Honestly, a true expose on this would be wonderful just to educate people.
October 3, 2016 at 9:49 AM #801762Participant[quote=Rich Toscano]Interesting thoughts from Hempton on the tax thing:
http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2016/10/some-comments-on-new-york-times-story.html%5B/quote%5D
There have been a few discussion over the last 36 hours about this. Most of it is inside baseball stuff, not political, but more about the mechanics of getting that loss to his personal return. A lot of it has to do with the magic of both creating basis in a particular kind of pass through entity, and then passing it through to Trump as an ordinary loss v. a capital loss.
Someone posted on twitter a transcript of an interview Trump did around that time, acknowledging that he walked away from the 3 casino bk’s owing about $950 million in personally guaranteed. Not that he walked away from the debt, he still owed it. And expected he would have it paid off it a short time.
What was posted was an original return, still subject to audit. Undoubtedly it was audited, and it’s very likely that this is what started his string of getting audited every single year, as this loss could have affected his return every year up to and including 2010.
October 3, 2016 at 9:57 AM #801763bearishgurl
Participant[quote=flu]Well, that didn’t take long….Lol, let the slugfest begin.
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/782756130158108672%5B/quote%5DLooks like a passel of “deplorables” has invaded Hill’s twitter feed.
Where are her “supporters?”
October 3, 2016 at 10:19 AM #801765
CoronitaParticipant[quote=bearishgurl]
Where are her “supporters?”[/quote]
Working and paying taxes.
October 3, 2016 at 10:20 AM #801764CoronitaParticipant[quote=AN][quote=flu][quote=AN][quote=flu]I can’t believe I’m turning into a democrat…..
What the hell is the world coming too?
Ok, in the bare minimum I’ll keep my RINO status.
I do like Assembly Member Brian Maienschein in my district.[/quote]
So you’ve finally embraced affirmative action huh?[/quote]absolutely not…. Brian Maienschein was against SCA-5 actually. But, sometimes you got to pick the immediate battles to fight. :)[/quote]
But if you’re turning into a democrat, then why would you be voting for Brian Maienschein?[/quote]Because I never thought I would vote for Hillary, lol. Ok, let me correct that. I’m probably not a California Democrat. More like a Bible state democrat. lol.
October 3, 2016 at 10:26 AM #801766CoronitaParticipant[quote=no_such_reality]Great article link Rich!
I’d guess as a starting place to look would be Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts established in 1995 and BK’d in 2004 at about $1.8B in debt.
Which then renamed Trump Entertainment … that BK’d again in 2009 at another $1.2B.
If the business entity held the parked debt and failed to collect in nine years, an then another 5 would it still be enforceable?
Madoff debt parking ponzi scheme? Capone-esque tax avoidance?
Honestly, a true expose on this would be wonderful just to educate people.[/quote]
Just out of curiosity for those with tax background, why would the IRS not have ruled on this over the past years? Is it he keeps rolling it into one entity, after another?
October 3, 2016 at 11:51 AM #801767FlyerInHi
Guest[quote=SK in CV]
It wasn’t a capital loss. It’s an operating business loss. He ran a business that he lost almost a billion dollars of his own money. It was almost 2% of all net operating losses for all returns filed in 1995. Out of ever $100 lost in businesses across the country, Trump lost $2 of them. It may have been the biggest single loss of its kind of all time.[/quote]Yeah. And that shows Trump is a bad businessman. You’re right, his empire maybe facing collapse within the next 5 years.
October 3, 2016 at 12:29 PM #801768Participant[quote=flu][quote=no_such_reality]Great article link Rich!
I’d guess as a starting place to look would be Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts established in 1995 and BK’d in 2004 at about $1.8B in debt.
Which then renamed Trump Entertainment … that BK’d again in 2009 at another $1.2B.
If the business entity held the parked debt and failed to collect in nine years, an then another 5 would it still be enforceable?
Madoff debt parking ponzi scheme? Capone-esque tax avoidance?
Honestly, a true expose on this would be wonderful just to educate people.[/quote]
Just out of curiosity for those with tax background, why would the IRS not have ruled on this over the past years? Is it he keeps rolling it into one entity, after another?[/quote]
They have. He’s said all years are closed I think prior to 2010. Any rulings are confidential unless subject to a court decision, which there haven’t been any. So we have no way of knowing whether this $900 million deduction withstood scrutiny.
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