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March 18, 2016 at 7:06 PM #795921March 18, 2016 at 10:52 PM #795923
njtosd
Participant[quote=joec]
As an immigrant myself, I constantly find many Americans who were born here MUCH MUCH lazier in general since they didn’t have a hard life growing up.
You see it all the time with privileged wealthier kids expecting fancier things just because they “deserve it”…or, I went to work so I need this bag…I really need the newest iphone (I only get free phones)…
[/quote]Maybe immigrants work harder – but the US has, on average, a higher GDP per capita than all but about 8 or 10 countries in the world. We rank even higher if you exclude the oil producing countries. How are we making so much more stuff than these other people if we’re so lazy? I think you are falling victim to the attitude being spoofed here: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/arakawa-group/n10192
Overall, I think it’s a perception bias.March 19, 2016 at 6:37 PM #795935joec
Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=joec]
As an immigrant myself, I constantly find many Americans who were born here MUCH MUCH lazier in general since they didn’t have a hard life growing up.
You see it all the time with privileged wealthier kids expecting fancier things just because they “deserve it”…or, I went to work so I need this bag…I really need the newest iphone (I only get free phones)…
[/quote]Maybe immigrants work harder – but the US has, on average, a higher GDP per capita than all but about 8 or 10 countries in the world. We rank even higher if you exclude the oil producing countries. How are we making so much more stuff than these other people if we’re so lazy? I think you are falling victim to the attitude being spoofed here: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/arakawa-group/n10192
Overall, I think it’s a perception bias.[/quote]Have you been in other countries? Some countries have massive amounts of poverty and pay for most other countries is lower so GDP is lower overall due to lower output and consumption.
I don’t think measuring GDP is not a good measure of how hard someone is willing to work.
A better measure is how badly someone needs the job (great depression anyone?) and are willing to put up with crap to do it.
Some American’s maybe willing to do anything to make a buck, but even in college and me included, a life of comfort and privilege compared to people who left war torn areas and know they have a great opportunity now or work sucks in their native country will work much harder than someone who simply is ignorant of those situations.
March 20, 2016 at 11:23 AM #795945FlyerInHi
GuestWow, Lindsey Graham was pretty scathing in his criticism of Trump.
March 20, 2016 at 11:23 AM #795944Guestdup
March 20, 2016 at 4:27 PM #795953bearishgurl
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Wow, Lindsey Graham was pretty scathing in his criticism of Trump.
[/quote]
I listened to the video, FIH. Among other inaccuracies, he states (in essence), “We cannot deport the grandmother of an American citizen who (may have) served in the military when they’ve done nothing but violate the immigration laws of this country …. and still retain the `Hispanic’ vote. Many `illegal aliens’ have been here a decade or more …”
Umm, the bolded portion of that statement (among others he made on the video) is highly inaccurate. That “illegal-alien grandparent” very likely did not have 40-quarters (or any quarters at all, for that matter) of bona-fide “work” in this country to qualify for OASDI (Social Security). Thus, many in this country illegally have successfully applied for and NOW RECEIVE Supplemental Security Income (SSI) payments every month and could very well have been doing so for well over 20 years by now!
. . . UNDER WHAT CONDITIONS MAY A “QUALIFIED ALIEN” BE ELIGIBLE FOR SSI BENEFITS?
If you are in one of the seven “qualified alien” categories listed above, you may be eligible for SSI if you also meet one of the following conditions:
1. You were receiving SSI and lawfully residing in the U.S. on August 22, 1996; . . . .
You may receive SSI for a maximum of seven years from the date DHS granted you immigration status in one of the following categories, and the status was granted within seven years of filing for SSI:
5. Refugee under Section 207 of the INA;
* Asylee under Section 208 of the INA;
* Alien whose deportation was withheld under Section 243(h) of the INA or whose removal is withheld under Section 241(b)(3) of the INA;
* Cuban or Haitian entrant” under Section 501(e) of the Refugee Education Assistance Act of 1980 or in a status that is to be treated as a “Cuban/ Haitian entrant” for SSI purposes; or
* “Amerasian immigrant” pursuant to P.L. 100-202, with a class of admission of AM-1 through AM-8.. . .
see: https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/spotlights/spot-non-citizens.htm
Also, who has been paying the medical bills of this group who ostensibly lived with relatives (some in the US legally) over the years? Did those residing in SoCal go back to Tijuana for routine medical care? Where did they go if they had a medical emergency? The following article, dated December 2014, explains the recent “amnesty law” applicable to members of the group Graham is referring to who apparently are now eligible for Medicare and Social Security without ever working one day in this country or putting one red cent into the “system” (never had any FICA deductions due to either only working “under the table” or never working at all):
. . .In a speech to the nation on November 20, the president extended amnesty to approximately five million illegal aliens who have been in the country more than five years, and/or have children who are American citizens, pass a criminal background check, and pay their fair share of taxes, although it’s unclear how the latter would be calculated.
The Department of Homeland Security is already seeking to hire 1,000 new permanent employees in Virginia to process millions of amnesty applications from illegal immigrants, which will culminate in their receiving Social Security numbers and green card work permits. Obama’s amnesty would be unprecedented if, unlike most government programs, it actually stays within its original cost and scope parameters. . .
The millions of dollars (billions?) in SSI, OASDI and Medicare benefits being paid to (undeserving) “illegal aliens” who are now “senior citizens” is not “nothing” as Graham indirectly alleges in the video. Of course, in his position, he must know better but is attempting to appeal to the emotions of the low-information voter.
The “Mexican grandparent” example made by Graham in the video is just the tip of the iceberg. There are other groups of senior-citizens and almost senior-citizens who came here legally in the last 40 years by the tens of thousands off the “sponsorship” of the military-member former spouse of their child. (The sponsor is now a “former spouse” because the American citizen military sponsor was often discarded AFTER the green card paperwork was successfully processed for 2, 4, 6 or even 8+ relatives of his foreign spouse (whom he “sponsored” for US citizenship with his SSN).
I know this from plenty of IRL experience and also the fact that Rep Bob Filner employed a clerk in his longtime office in South County SD for many years when he was our Rep in Congress. Her primary duty was to assist these (mostly Filipino) “constituents” with their applications for SSI and follow up on them until they began to receive payments. Many of these aging immigrants had been rendered homeless by the divorce of their child from the sponsor and/or foreclosure of the family home they were all residing in and had no means by which to support themselves.
So much for the the “sponsors” (including the newly-naturalized wives legally bringing over as many relatives as possible) being held to their sworn statement to the INS that they will support their parents in the US until they die (as a condition of bringing them here legally). Practically speaking, it seems that no sponsors are held to that promise, leaving US taxpayers to foot the bill for their support.
Many of the rules and regs of Homeland Security/INS need to be fixed and the loopholes closed up tight. They’re patently unfair to the US-citizen worker who has been making legitimate FICA contributions their entire lives and may never see a payback coming their way when they most need it due to the OASDI fund running out before they age into the program :=0
March 20, 2016 at 4:28 PM #795954SK in CV
Participant[quote=bearishgurl][quote=FlyerInHi]Wow, Lindsey Graham was pretty scathing in his criticism of Trump.
[/quote]
I listened to the video, FIH. Among other inaccuracies, he states (in essence), “We cannot deport the grandmother of an American citizen who (may have) served in the military when they’ve done nothing but violate the immigration laws of this country …. and still retain the `Hispanic’ vote. Many `illegal aliens’ have been here a decade or more …”
Umm, the bolded portion of that statement (among others he made on the video) is highly inaccurate. That “illegal-alien grandparent” very likely did not have 40-quarters (or any quarters at all, for that matter) of bona-fide “work” in this country to qualify for OASDI (Social Security). Thus, many in this country illegally have successfully applied for and NOW RECEIVE Supplemental Security Income (SSI) payments every month and could very well have been doing so for well over 20 years by now!
. . . UNDER WHAT CONDITIONS MAY A “QUALIFIED ALIEN” BE ELIGIBLE FOR SSI BENEFITS?
If you are in one of the seven “qualified alien” categories listed above, you may be eligible for SSI if you also meet one of the following conditions:
1. You were receiving SSI and lawfully residing in the U.S. on August 22, 1996. . .
see: https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/spotlights/spot-non-citizens.htm
Also, who has been paying the medical bills of this group who ostensibly lived with relatives (some in the US legally) over the years? Did those residing in SoCal go back to Tijuana for routine medical care? Where did they go if they had a medical emergency? The following article, dated December 2014, explains the recent “amnesty law” applicable to members of the group Graham is referring to who apparently are now eligible for Medicare and Social Security without ever working one day in this country or putting one red cent into the “system” (never had any FICA deductions due to either only working “under the table” or never working at all):
. . .In a speech to the nation on November 20, the president extended amnesty to approximately five million illegal aliens who have been in the country more than five years, and/or have children who are American citizens, pass a criminal background check, and pay their fair share of taxes, although it’s unclear how the latter would be calculated.
The Department of Homeland Security is already seeking to hire 1,000 new permanent employees in Virginia to process millions of amnesty applications from illegal immigrants, which will culminate in their receiving Social Security numbers and green card work permits. Obama’s amnesty would be unprecedented if, unlike most government programs, it actually stays within its original cost and scope parameters. . .
The millions of dollars (billions?) in SSI, OASDI and Medicare benefits being paid to (undeserving) “illegal aliens” who are now “senior citizens” is not “nothing” as Graham indirectly alleges in the video. Of course, in his position, he must know better but is attempting to appeal to the emotions of the low-information voter.
The “Mexican grandparent” example made by Graham in the video is just the tip of the iceberg. There are other groups of senior-citizens and almost senior-citizens who came here legally in the last 40 years by the tens of thousands off the “sponsorship” of the military-member former spouse of their child. (The sponsor is now a “former spouse” because the American citizen military sponsor was often discarded AFTER the green card paperwork was successfully processed for 2, 4, 6 or even 8+ relatives of his foreign spouse (whom he “sponsored” for US citizenship with his SSN).
I know this from plenty of IRL experience and also the fact that Rep Bob Filner employed a clerk in his longtime office in South County SD for many years when he was our Rep in Congress. Her primary duty was to assist these (mostly Filipino) “constituents” with their applications for SSI and follow up on them until they began to receive payments. Many of these aging immigrants had been rendered homeless by the divorce of their child from the sponsor and/or foreclosure of the family home they were all residing in and had no means by which to support themselves.
So much for the the “sponsors” (including the newly-naturalized wives legally bringing over as many relatives as possible) being held to their sworn statement to the INS that they will support their parents in the US until they die (as a condition of bringing them here legally). Practically speaking, it seems that no sponsors are held to that promise, leaving US taxpayers to foot the bill for their support.
Many of the rules and regs of Homeland Security/INS need to be fixed and the loopholes closed up tight. They’re patently unfair to the US-citizen worker who has been making legitimate FICA contributions their entire lives and may never see a payback coming their way when they most need it due to the OASDI fund running out before they age into the program :=0[/quote]
JFC, did a brown person steal your milk money when you were 6? Graham was not inaccurate. The woman in question may have been a serial murderer, but Senator Graham would still not have been inaccurate.
March 20, 2016 at 4:40 PM #795955ParticipantMy point, SK is that many/most? older illegal immigrants initially housed in the US by younger family members were supported by US taxpayers.
It it was known by the family member(s) who brought them over to live with them that they wouldn’t have been eligible for any benefits as an “illegal immigrant” and would not be able to be treated at US hospitals, ask yourself if the older family member would have decided to come to live in the US under those circumstances.
In short, the US laws and lack of immigration enforcement made it easy for illegal immigrants to come over and take advantage of us.
March 20, 2016 at 5:51 PM #795958Participant[quote=bearishgurl]My point, SK is that many/most? older illegal immigrants initially housed in the US by younger family members were supported by US taxpayers.
It it was known by the family member(s) who brought them over to live with them that they wouldn’t have been eligible for any benefits as an “illegal immigrant” and would not be able to be treated at US hospitals, ask yourself if the older family member would have decided to come to live in the US under those circumstances.
In short, the US laws and lack of immigration enforcement made it easy for illegal immigrants to come over and take advantage of us.[/quote]
Just stop it. You have no f’ing way of knowing what this woman did or didn’t do. And Senator Graham didn’t assume he did either. She’s brown, you assume she must have done something horrible, because you know someone who knows someone who told a story about something. I don’t think sneaking across the border and having children, and raising them to be fine participating members of society is horrible. You apparently do. So you jump to every possible bad conclusion without actually knowing anything. Neither legal nor illegal immigration is ruining this country. Giant corporations that don’t pay a living wage are. Wall Street, that sucks more than a trillion dollars a year out of the economy while providing absolutely nothing, is. Every brown person isn’t stealing your milk money.
March 20, 2016 at 6:11 PM #795959Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=bearishgurl]My point, SK is that many/most? older illegal immigrants initially housed in the US by younger family members were supported by US taxpayers.
It it was known by the family member(s) who brought them over to live with them that they wouldn’t have been eligible for any benefits as an “illegal immigrant” and would not be able to be treated at US hospitals, ask yourself if the older family member would have decided to come to live in the US under those circumstances.
In short, the US laws and lack of immigration enforcement made it easy for illegal immigrants to come over and take advantage of us.[/quote]
Just stop it. You have no f’ing way of knowing what this woman did or didn’t do. And Senator Graham didn’t assume he did either. She’s brown, you assume she must have done something horrible, because you know someone who knows someone who told a story about something. I don’t think sneaking across the border and having children, and raising them to be fine participating members of society is horrible. You apparently do. So you jump to every possible bad conclusion without actually knowing anything. Neither legal nor illegal immigration is ruining this country. Giant corporations that don’t pay a living wage are. Wall Street, that sucks more than a trillion dollars a year out of the economy while providing absolutely nothing, is. Every brown person isn’t stealing your milk money.[/quote]Re: the bolded portion of your post, I have no idea WTF you’re talking about. I’m not jumping to ANY conclusions. I’ve lived, breathed and worked in the situation I’m describing here for 30+ years.
I agree with the italicized portions of your post.
Consider that on the very few occasions on this board that I have suggested to a prospective buyer-poster a beautiful, large SFR listing for $200K to 600K LESS than what the same listing would cost in the Piggs’ seemingly “most popular” areas of the county (but located in South County SD and usually situated on a much bigger lot), the response is always, “You couldn’t pay me to live down there for any reason,” or similar.
SK, you’re a SD native. Put your thinking cap on and tell us why you think this is so?
And, btw, all “Hispanics” are not “brown.” Only a portion of them are … as are a portion of “Caucasian” people.
March 20, 2016 at 6:26 PM #795960Participant[quote=bearishgurl] I’ve lived, breathed and worked in the situation I’m describing here for 30+ years.
[/quote]
That’s exactly my point. You know your experiences. You know what other people tell you. What you don’t know is actual facts. You have no idea what goes on outside of your little, tiny, miniscule world. You hear of 3 women crossing the border to have babies and think every woman is crossing the border to have babies. You hear about a few families that live in Mexico and send their kids to school in the US and think it’s happening thousands of times. Your experience is not the rest of the world. Your experience may not the slightest resemblance to the rest of the world. You have “opinions” about why hospitals might close. No actual facts. Every little brown kid isn’t out to steal your milk money. You, and Trump, are railing against the wrong boogeyman.
March 20, 2016 at 6:34 PM #795961ParticipantPeople just like to live/work/play/marry/hang out with/associate with people similar to them or are like them…
This is true for companies, the executive suite (white male/WASP people…), engineering teams (I’ve heard at QCOM, you have plenty of “racial” groups against other racial groups…etc).
Piggs here don’t want to live in south county or east county because they don’t see, perhaps other people like them and don’t act/behave the same…
Like I can care less about the SD Chargers…I used to rent and some people were chargers fans making noise drinking beer every Sunday…Nice enough people, but not really people I care to hang with or associate with or really have a conversation with neither.
That said, I don’t criticize people who DO want to live in South or East County, but most Asians that are similar to my general background won’t want to live there neither.
Maybe people aren’t against illegal immigrants trying to live productive crime free lives and pay taxes, but what if you suddenly accept millions in refugees all the time? The cost for that would be staggering in terms of healthcare, etc…You already have every shop in SF charging tax for healthcare.
As for jobs, if you are a student or someone working for minimum wage, having MORE competition for your job can’t be a good thing.
I can understand some people simply being against any immigrants since there are always unintended consequences when any decision is made for anything.
No matter how productive the immigrants are.
I don’t buy that only immigrants can do certain jobs neither…or companies can’t find US workers to do it.
March 20, 2016 at 7:12 PM #795964Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=bearishgurl] I’ve lived, breathed and worked in the situation I’m describing here for 30+ years.
[/quote]
That’s exactly my point. You know your experiences. You know what other people tell you. What you don’t know is actual facts. You have no idea what goes on outside of your little, tiny, miniscule world. You hear of 3 women crossing the border to have babies and think every woman is crossing the border to have babies. You hear about a few families that live in Mexico and send their kids to school in the US and think it’s happening thousands of times. Your experience is not the rest of the world. Your experience may not the slightest resemblance to the rest of the world. You have “opinions” about why hospitals might close. No actual facts. Every little brown kid isn’t out to steal your milk money. You, and Trump, are railing against the wrong boogeyman.[/quote]Again, SK, you’re being recalcitrant, here. I DO have longtime contacts in the medical field around here and have been around these folks all of my adult life. I NEVER STATED here that hospitals could close. I stated that SOME ( a few) of the local public SCHOOLS could close if all the “illegal” students and those “anchor baby” students who were current residents of MX suddenly stopped attending them every day. This would only happen if they were unable to cross the border every morning to do so. I don’t HEAR about anything. I SEE it, my kids have SEEN it and we have SEEN it all with our own eyes. In addition, I am a local criminal justice retiree. You can’t take that experience away from me. The difference between you and me is that you apparently lived in a “bubble” when you resided in SD and obviously didn’t realize these things were going on to the degree that they actually are. And that’s okay. There are a lot more of you out there so you aren’t alone :=0
March 20, 2016 at 7:23 PM #795965Participantjoec, for the record, PLENTY of Asian families reside in SD South County (and to a lesser extent, East County). Tens of thousands (perhaps close to 100K). I’ve heard MANY comments on this board on how Piggs don’t want their own kids going to school with hundreds of kids crossing the border every day. Nor would they be happy about having their kids in classes filled with ESL students (elem school). I believe these are the primary reasons for Piggs not wanting to purchase a home in South County, even though many of the listings around here are large SFRs with often much larger lots than their “target areas” and listed for $200-$600K LESS and a good portion of South County’s public schools are rated very highly. Although, distance to high-tech jobs is listed as another reason for discounting South County as a viable place to live, it isn’t that far to those job centers from many points in East County.
March 20, 2016 at 8:10 PM #795967Participant[quote=bearishgurl]Again, SK, you’re being recalcitrant, here. I DO have longtime contacts in the medical field around here and have been around these folks all of my adult life. I NEVER STATED here that hospitals could close. I stated that SOME ( a few) of the local public SCHOOLS could close if all the “illegal” students and those “anchor baby” students who were current residents of MX suddenly stopped attending them every day. This would only happen if they were unable to cross the border every morning to do so. I don’t HEAR about anything. I SEE it, my kids have SEEN it and we have SEEN it all with our own eyes. In addition, I am a local criminal justice retiree. You can’t take that experience away from me. The difference between you and me is that you apparently lived in a “bubble” when you resided in SD and obviously didn’t realize these things were going on to the degree that they actually are. And that’s okay. There are a lot more of you out there so you aren’t alone :=0[/quote]
You don’t get it. I’m pretty sure you will never get it. Your personal experience is not data. It isn’t even a data point. You don’t know how things are, regardless of your experience. You have proven that over and over again on this board.
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