Post Election Blues: Dow -176pts, Nasdaq -39, S&P500 -21

[Coronita]

Closed

Dow -313, Nasdaq -69.9, S&P -31.47

…and you folks haven’t seen nothing yet.Why? Me thinks a lot of 5%ers and 1%ers are gonna want to maximize tax savings this year…So you can expect some year end dumping….Because people are gonna be afraid of a possible bigger tax bite in 2013…

good luck folks….

[Coronita]

Whohooo…Time to sell qualcomm too… $63/share after hours…..

I’m out @ 62.50 AH….

[no_such_reality]

[quote=livinincali]
That’s the problem right. $15/hr sounds like a good plan until you realize that all the costs in the system will go up. What you could buy with $8/hr is the same amount of stuff you can buy with $15/hr once the system adjusts to it. [/quote]

That’s assuming the top end moves proportionately. The problem is $8/hr is really externalizing the real costs of the products that are provided with $8/hr labor.

It’s exactly the same problem with legal labor and 99 cents/lb grapes.

The grapes aren’t really 99 cents, and the illegal labor isn’t really $5/hour.

The grapes are 99 cents plus $20,000 periodic and random ER bills and $14 Billion in school bonds.

And the labor is $5/hr plus the same $20,000 periodic ER bill and $14 billion in school bonds.

[Diego Mamani]

I doubled down on CEL 40 seconds before market closing…

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=no_such_reality][quote=livinincali]
That’s the problem right. $15/hr sounds like a good plan until you realize that all the costs in the system will go up. What you could buy with $8/hr is the same amount of stuff you can buy with $15/hr once the system adjusts to it. [/quote]

That’s assuming the top end moves proportionately. The problem is $8/hr is really externalizing the real costs of the products that are provided with $8/hr labor.

It’s exactly the same problem with legal labor and 99 cents/lb grapes.

The grapes aren’t really 99 cents, and the illegal labor isn’t really $5/hour.

The grapes are 99 cents plus $20,000 periodic and random ER bills and $14 Billion in school bonds.

And the labor is $5/hr plus the same $20,000 periodic ER bill and $14 billion in school bonds.[/quote]

This and the fact the minimum wage does not keep up with inflation (congress does not give a cost of living raise to MW workers), if inflation goes up 5% a year minimum wage will most likely not see raise for several years And is probably 10 years behind at least currently IMO.

[Coronita]

It would just be kinda funny if QC comes in light on guidance and the entire thing reverses during/after the con-call….

[Zeitgeist]

“In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all, By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul; But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy, And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: ‘If you don’t work you die.'”

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man There are only four things certain since Social Progress began. That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire, And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins, As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn, The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return.

[Coronita]

Day 2….Not looking so good….

Me thinks we’re going to be turning red soon.

Wall street is gonna punish main street big time…

[ltsddd]

.

[livinincali]

[quote=no_such_reality]
That’s assuming the top end moves proportionately. The problem is $8/hr is really externalizing the real costs of the products that are provided with $8/hr labor.

It’s exactly the same problem with legal labor and 99 cents/lb grapes.

The grapes aren’t really 99 cents, and the illegal labor isn’t really $5/hour.

The grapes are 99 cents plus $20,000 periodic and random ER bills and $14 Billion in school bonds.

And the labor is $5/hr plus the same $20,000 periodic ER bill and $14 billion in school bonds.[/quote]

In the US that is indeed true. We’ve decided to subsidize a standard of living or a level of consumption. Many countries don’t do this and yet they still don’t have a labor shortage and here in the US we exploit that fact.

The fundamental goal of rising minimum wage or increasing the middle class really boil down to consuming more goods and services. The way to allow for people to consume more goods and services is to increase the supply of goods and services. So how exactly does rising minimum wage increase the total goods and services produced by American’s?

In almost every scenario you can imagine, initially some businesses will be economically nonviable when minimum wage is increased and will go out of business. Therefore the total goods and services decreases. If the total goods and service decreases then as a whole people have to consume less so what have you done in increasing minimum wage is give those at the bottom a slight increase but those directly above them a slight decrease. The guy that used to make $15/hour hanging drywall will get less steak and the guy that worked at McDonald’s will get more. The market will increase the price of steak until it finds that balance.

We need to stop focusing so heavily on the demand side of the equation because we get the increase in demand but we’re weak on the supply side. We either don’t increase the supply and prices rise to meet the higher demand or the supply comes from some other country which doesn’t generate a job here.

Think about the health care law. We know it’s going to increase demand for health care because more people will be covered but what are we doing about the supply side. Are we building more hospitals, training more doctors, developing cheaper drugs? We’re not and likely won’t be.

[SK in CV]

[quote=livinincali]
Think about the health care law. We know it’s going to increase demand for health care because more people will be covered but what are we doing about the supply side. Are we building more hospitals, training more doctors, developing cheaper drugs? We’re not and likely won’t be.[/quote]

Alas, but yes, we are building new medical schools. Since 2009, at a rate almost 3 times the rate of the previous decade, 11 new medical schools have opened. An additional 23 are in the process of undergoing accreditation and expecting to open in the next few years.

[no_such_reality]

I disagree Livin.

We need to shift the demand curve. It is that simple. Not shift it down, shift it over.

For example, the average american woman owns 19 shoes.
The average British woman owns 17 shoes.
The average French woman owns 12 shoes.

We’re addicted to cheap, disposable and often easy. It’s not sustainable in many forms.

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=no_such_reality]I disagree Livin.

We need to shift the demand curve. It is that simple. Not shift it down, shift it over.

For example, the average american woman owns 19 shoes.
The average British woman owns 17 shoes.
The average French woman owns 12 shoes.

We’re addicted to cheap, disposable and often easy. It’s not sustainable in many forms.[/quote]

I would also argue that the Lower and lower middle income have been lagging seriously behind the higher end earners making 75-100K or above,
Especially the minimum wage as they get “NO” cost of living increases (well at least it takes several years generally for them to get a raise),

Really do we need that many J-Box type fast food joints etc… anyway ?

[spdrun]

For example, the average american woman owns 19 shoes.
The average British woman owns 17 shoes.

Does this mean that the average Anglo woman only has one leg, or that she likes to walk with only one shoe? 😀 Inquiring minds wish to know.

In seriousness, France has a less harsh climate than most of America. England’s is more constant with little to no snow. Perhaps the extra pairs are winter boots and summer sandals.

[Coronita]

[quote=The-Shoveler][quote=no_such_reality]I disagree Livin.

We need to shift the demand curve. It is that simple. Not shift it down, shift it over.

For example, the average american woman owns 19 shoes.
The average British woman owns 17 shoes.
The average French woman owns 12 shoes.

We’re addicted to cheap, disposable and often easy. It’s not sustainable in many forms.[/quote]

I would also argue that the Lower and lower middle income have been lagging seriously behind the higher end earners making 75-100K or above,
Especially the minimum wage as they get “NO” cost of living increases (well at least it takes several years generally for them to get a raise),

Really do we need that many J-Box type fast food joints etc… anyway ?[/quote]

Well, and again that was my point on the other thread…Folks on minimum wage are gonna feel the sales tax hike…You betcha…. And chances are they voted for it too..And the money is going to be pissed down the drain. You betcha..

Well, adopting my new motto… It’s not my problem….

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