- This topic has 8 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 5 months ago by lostkitty.
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June 12, 2006 at 6:29 PM #6709June 12, 2006 at 6:49 PM #26685PDParticipant
Great information. I wonder if out migration will actually increase over the current numbers? It seems as though affordability is the driving factor behind the exodus and even if prices drop significantly, it will take years for affordability to improve.
Have you asked them where they got their graph for the housing data? Has anyone seen a similar graph for the period in question (80s-90s)?
June 12, 2006 at 6:56 PM #26686daveljParticipantAs a housing bear, I agree with the vast majority of what you have to say here, but my guiding investment mantra since projecting other “obvious” future bearish scenarios and having them foiled (or perhaps I should say “deferred to a later date”) by the Fed’s dropping rates to (well below the rate of inflation at) 1% is:
“The best laid plans of mice and men are often trumped by Greenspan’s kin.”
Again, I’m a housing bear (and a stock market bear for that matter). But one thing you have to remember about being bearish is that over 90% of the world is aligned against you. The world, in aggregate, is WAAAAY long – investors, traders, governments, etc. And when these interests feel threatened, it’s amazing to what lengths they will go to prolong the “good” times. All I’m saying is to prepare yourself to be surprised at what the powers-that-be come up with to keep this crazy market from totally tanking. There’s an awful lot of entrenched interests that have a big stake in how it all turns out. They’re not just going to roll over and get stampeded without a fight.
June 12, 2006 at 8:34 PM #26688powaysellerParticipantPrice stability is more important to the government than a few million homeowners losing their jobs or homes. They must prevent inflation, and the problem is that the economy is slowing and inflation is rising. Ben must either kill housing or kill the dollar. Either way, housing is toast.
If you can have ever-lasting economic growth without a recession, send the formula to Ben Bernanke. There is no such thing.
June 12, 2006 at 11:20 PM #26701daveljParticipant“Price stability is more important to the government than a few million homeowners losing their jobs or homes. They must prevent inflation…”
You’re kidding, right? The APPEARANCE of price stability is important to the government, but ACTUAL price stability clearly is not a priority based on the evidence of the last decade. I agree with your conclusion that housing is toast. But there’s two issues: (1) How does one define “toast”? (In other words, what kind of decline qualifies as “toast”), and (2) What’s the timing of the toast? Two critical issues, I’d say.
My point is that the Fed/Government is prepared to pull all sorts of things out of its hat if it looks like things are really going south. Be prepared for bank regulatory agencies to change the stringency of their exams, a bailout of Fannie and/or Freddie, increased interest deductions for homeowners, you name it. I’m not saying it’s going to happen, I’m just saying to be prepared for the unexpected. Strange shit happens.
For example, as of 2003, in the 90 years the Fed had been in existence, it had NEVER lowered short-term rates below the rate of inflation (and for good reason). Consequently, using historical numbers, the odds of that eventuality were beyond a 3-sigma event – almost impossible. And yet it happened. Don’t be surprised if we see similar maneuvers. Ultimately, they won’t work – the fundamentals will eventually win out. But, such machinations can put a floor on the decline as well as deferring the pain out even further into the future than any reasonable person might expect.
June 13, 2006 at 8:32 AM #26711PDParticipantThis is a great article:
http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/224/5267/2006-06-12.asp?wid=224&nid=5267June 13, 2006 at 9:30 AM #26715daveljParticipantAgreed – a great summary of the situation.
June 13, 2006 at 9:54 AM #26718powaysellerParticipantIs everyone now convinced that the SD economy is dependent on real estate? There is no industry or occupation in San Diego that can contribute any employment growth, outside of real estate.
Any comments on the job loss and recession? Do you see how Thornberg missed the boat by not considering the losses in the secondary sectors?
I’d love some feeback from the RE bulls.
June 13, 2006 at 2:34 PM #26736lostkittyParticipantI dont think there are any RE bulls around here!
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