ot: Thought this was funny as hell.

[SD Transplant]

I should be living proof that speaking other Latin based languages does not improve your English (anecdotal evidence). Mind you, English is my 3rd official language, and I still suck at it. I also started a little later in life (I was 20).

The biggest issue or challenge is spelling because English is an odd language that does not follow “you write what you hear”. Hence, spelling rules are a unique way of learing it, and I have been dealing with the limitation of my style of learning.

Moreover, English is easier than many other languages, and it makes it tougher to learn (that’s no joke). Let me share a great example, in English I heard fewer words than any other language I speak, and the word “GET/GOT” gave me the biggest challenge of all….I have over 20 unique meanings my native tongue, and I’m always limiting my use of certain “got ya” words.

I didn’t even bother spelling anything

[Coronita]

[quote=UCGal][quote=flu]
3) Third, formal documents no longer undergo scrutiny as much as before, because it is assumed there are technology tools to automatically correct, such as a spell checker. Unfortunately, spell checkers/grammar checkers can’t always detect “theire” as “their” or “there” and ends up making educated guesses sometimes. When you see your MS Word document without any more red underlines, you sort of assume it’s “ok”.[/quote]

I have to agree with this big time – and it’s a battle we’re fighting with our 3rd grade son. He’s a terrible speller and lazy about the grammatical rules.

After discussing it with his teacher – we’ve turned off the Word spell and grammar check option on the computer he does his book reports on. We’ve gone old school (and tree killing)… he prints out his report – I make grammar spelling checks – he looks up the correct spelling in the dictionary and discusses with me the grammar corrections. I’m hoping it will make it sink in more.

They have to know spelling/grammar on the STAR tests/benchmark tests/etc… So it’s our job (teacher and parents) to make sure he learns it rather than letting the “tools” correct his mistakes.

Even in tech based jobs, you still need good writing skills.[/quote]

in tech jobs, my experience has been, if you don’t want to be at higher levels, you don’t need perfect english.

But I think those spell checker/grammar checkers are equivalent to calculators. You wouldn’t give a kid a calculator without them knowing basic math first.

Or maybe our species has evolved such that progress is more important than grammatical accuracy…Afterall, language does change too. Maybe grammar isn’t as important anymore as long as concepts are correct.

Btw: this always throws me off…

“He didn’t do anything.”

versus

“He didn’t do nothing.”

I’m assuming in English, it’s one typically doesn’t use a double negative.

In Spanish, I recall proper grammar is double negative = negative. ie: no me gusta nada.

[Coronita]

[quote=UCGal][quote=flu]
3) Third, formal documents no longer undergo scrutiny as much as before, because it is assumed there are technology tools to automatically correct, such as a spell checker. Unfortunately, spell checkers/grammar checkers can’t always detect “theire” as “their” or “there” and ends up making educated guesses sometimes. When you see your MS Word document without any more red underlines, you sort of assume it’s “ok”.[/quote]

I have to agree with this big time – and it’s a battle we’re fighting with our 3rd grade son. He’s a terrible speller and lazy about the grammatical rules.

After discussing it with his teacher – we’ve turned off the Word spell and grammar check option on the computer he does his book reports on. We’ve gone old school (and tree killing)… he prints out his report – I make grammar spelling checks – he looks up the correct spelling in the dictionary and discusses with me the grammar corrections. I’m hoping it will make it sink in more.

They have to know spelling/grammar on the STAR tests/benchmark tests/etc… So it’s our job (teacher and parents) to make sure he learns it rather than letting the “tools” correct his mistakes.

Even in tech based jobs, you still need good writing skills.[/quote]

in tech jobs, my experience has been, if you don’t want to be at higher levels, you don’t need perfect english.

But I think those spell checker/grammar checkers are equivalent to calculators. You wouldn’t give a kid a calculator without them knowing basic math first.

Or maybe our species has evolved such that progress is more important than grammatical accuracy…Afterall, language does change too. Maybe grammar isn’t as important anymore as long as concepts are correct.

Btw: this always throws me off…

“He didn’t do anything.”

versus

“He didn’t do nothing.”

I’m assuming in English, it’s one typically doesn’t use a double negative.

In Spanish, I recall proper grammar is double negative = negative. ie: no me gusta nada.

[Coronita]

[quote=UCGal][quote=flu]
3) Third, formal documents no longer undergo scrutiny as much as before, because it is assumed there are technology tools to automatically correct, such as a spell checker. Unfortunately, spell checkers/grammar checkers can’t always detect “theire” as “their” or “there” and ends up making educated guesses sometimes. When you see your MS Word document without any more red underlines, you sort of assume it’s “ok”.[/quote]

I have to agree with this big time – and it’s a battle we’re fighting with our 3rd grade son. He’s a terrible speller and lazy about the grammatical rules.

After discussing it with his teacher – we’ve turned off the Word spell and grammar check option on the computer he does his book reports on. We’ve gone old school (and tree killing)… he prints out his report – I make grammar spelling checks – he looks up the correct spelling in the dictionary and discusses with me the grammar corrections. I’m hoping it will make it sink in more.

They have to know spelling/grammar on the STAR tests/benchmark tests/etc… So it’s our job (teacher and parents) to make sure he learns it rather than letting the “tools” correct his mistakes.

Even in tech based jobs, you still need good writing skills.[/quote]

in tech jobs, my experience has been, if you don’t want to be at higher levels, you don’t need perfect english.

But I think those spell checker/grammar checkers are equivalent to calculators. You wouldn’t give a kid a calculator without them knowing basic math first.

Or maybe our species has evolved such that progress is more important than grammatical accuracy…Afterall, language does change too. Maybe grammar isn’t as important anymore as long as concepts are correct.

Btw: this always throws me off…

“He didn’t do anything.”

versus

“He didn’t do nothing.”

I’m assuming in English, it’s one typically doesn’t use a double negative.

In Spanish, I recall proper grammar is double negative = negative. ie: no me gusta nada.

[Coronita]

[quote=UCGal][quote=flu]
3) Third, formal documents no longer undergo scrutiny as much as before, because it is assumed there are technology tools to automatically correct, such as a spell checker. Unfortunately, spell checkers/grammar checkers can’t always detect “theire” as “their” or “there” and ends up making educated guesses sometimes. When you see your MS Word document without any more red underlines, you sort of assume it’s “ok”.[/quote]

I have to agree with this big time – and it’s a battle we’re fighting with our 3rd grade son. He’s a terrible speller and lazy about the grammatical rules.

After discussing it with his teacher – we’ve turned off the Word spell and grammar check option on the computer he does his book reports on. We’ve gone old school (and tree killing)… he prints out his report – I make grammar spelling checks – he looks up the correct spelling in the dictionary and discusses with me the grammar corrections. I’m hoping it will make it sink in more.

They have to know spelling/grammar on the STAR tests/benchmark tests/etc… So it’s our job (teacher and parents) to make sure he learns it rather than letting the “tools” correct his mistakes.

Even in tech based jobs, you still need good writing skills.[/quote]

in tech jobs, my experience has been, if you don’t want to be at higher levels, you don’t need perfect english.

But I think those spell checker/grammar checkers are equivalent to calculators. You wouldn’t give a kid a calculator without them knowing basic math first.

Or maybe our species has evolved such that progress is more important than grammatical accuracy…Afterall, language does change too. Maybe grammar isn’t as important anymore as long as concepts are correct.

Btw: this always throws me off…

“He didn’t do anything.”

versus

“He didn’t do nothing.”

I’m assuming in English, it’s one typically doesn’t use a double negative.

In Spanish, I recall proper grammar is double negative = negative. ie: no me gusta nada.

[Coronita]

[quote=UCGal][quote=flu]
3) Third, formal documents no longer undergo scrutiny as much as before, because it is assumed there are technology tools to automatically correct, such as a spell checker. Unfortunately, spell checkers/grammar checkers can’t always detect “theire” as “their” or “there” and ends up making educated guesses sometimes. When you see your MS Word document without any more red underlines, you sort of assume it’s “ok”.[/quote]

I have to agree with this big time – and it’s a battle we’re fighting with our 3rd grade son. He’s a terrible speller and lazy about the grammatical rules.

After discussing it with his teacher – we’ve turned off the Word spell and grammar check option on the computer he does his book reports on. We’ve gone old school (and tree killing)… he prints out his report – I make grammar spelling checks – he looks up the correct spelling in the dictionary and discusses with me the grammar corrections. I’m hoping it will make it sink in more.

They have to know spelling/grammar on the STAR tests/benchmark tests/etc… So it’s our job (teacher and parents) to make sure he learns it rather than letting the “tools” correct his mistakes.

Even in tech based jobs, you still need good writing skills.[/quote]

in tech jobs, my experience has been, if you don’t want to be at higher levels, you don’t need perfect english.

But I think those spell checker/grammar checkers are equivalent to calculators. You wouldn’t give a kid a calculator without them knowing basic math first.

Or maybe our species has evolved such that progress is more important than grammatical accuracy…Afterall, language does change too. Maybe grammar isn’t as important anymore as long as concepts are correct.

Btw: this always throws me off…

“He didn’t do anything.”

versus

“He didn’t do nothing.”

I’m assuming in English, it’s one typically doesn’t use a double negative.

In Spanish, I recall proper grammar is double negative = negative. ie: no me gusta nada.

[SD Transplant]

perfect timing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36621678/ns/world_news/?gt1=43001

SYDNEY – An Australian publisher is reprinting 7,000 cookbooks over a recipe for pasta with “salt and freshly ground black people.”

Penguin Group Australia’s head of publishing, Bob Sessions, acknowledged the proofreader for the Pasta Bible should have picked up the error, but called it nothing more than a “silly mistake.”

The “Pasta Bible” recipe for spelt tagliatelle with sardines and prosciutto was supposed to call for black pepper.

[SD Transplant]

perfect timing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36621678/ns/world_news/?gt1=43001

SYDNEY – An Australian publisher is reprinting 7,000 cookbooks over a recipe for pasta with “salt and freshly ground black people.”

Penguin Group Australia’s head of publishing, Bob Sessions, acknowledged the proofreader for the Pasta Bible should have picked up the error, but called it nothing more than a “silly mistake.”

The “Pasta Bible” recipe for spelt tagliatelle with sardines and prosciutto was supposed to call for black pepper.

[SD Transplant]

perfect timing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36621678/ns/world_news/?gt1=43001

SYDNEY – An Australian publisher is reprinting 7,000 cookbooks over a recipe for pasta with “salt and freshly ground black people.”

Penguin Group Australia’s head of publishing, Bob Sessions, acknowledged the proofreader for the Pasta Bible should have picked up the error, but called it nothing more than a “silly mistake.”

The “Pasta Bible” recipe for spelt tagliatelle with sardines and prosciutto was supposed to call for black pepper.

[SD Transplant]

perfect timing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36621678/ns/world_news/?gt1=43001

SYDNEY – An Australian publisher is reprinting 7,000 cookbooks over a recipe for pasta with “salt and freshly ground black people.”

Penguin Group Australia’s head of publishing, Bob Sessions, acknowledged the proofreader for the Pasta Bible should have picked up the error, but called it nothing more than a “silly mistake.”

The “Pasta Bible” recipe for spelt tagliatelle with sardines and prosciutto was supposed to call for black pepper.

[SD Transplant]

perfect timing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36621678/ns/world_news/?gt1=43001

SYDNEY – An Australian publisher is reprinting 7,000 cookbooks over a recipe for pasta with “salt and freshly ground black people.”

Penguin Group Australia’s head of publishing, Bob Sessions, acknowledged the proofreader for the Pasta Bible should have picked up the error, but called it nothing more than a “silly mistake.”

The “Pasta Bible” recipe for spelt tagliatelle with sardines and prosciutto was supposed to call for black pepper.

[NotCranky]

[quote=svelte][quote=briansd1][quote=urbanrealtor]
That “one-must-learn-an-ancient-or-foreign-language-to-speak-English” is just about as credible as the dude belching out smog from his tree-hugger-bestickered volkswagen.[/quote]

Maybe there’s no direct correlation between the study of the foreign languages and how well one speaks English.

Perhaps it’s simply the amount of study/reading of the English language that’s important.

I know a Chinese gal who’s studied English on her own in China back the 1980s. She read all the English classics and speaks English beautifully. Of course, Chinese and English are not related languages.

My own experience is that people who speak a foreign language (e.g. Spanish) speak better English. They use more nuanced expressions.
[/quote]

Geez, my experience has been just the opposite. Most of the people I have known who speak/write multiple languages don’t do any of them well (though they think they do).

Jack of all trades, master of none is appropriate here.[/quote]
It would take a convergence of many fortuitous events and/or sacrifices for a native English speaker from this country to become highly bi-literate. Odds are so against it. Hopefully, this is changing. Perhaps being a jack-of-all-trades is a decent accomplishment, lignustically speaking.

[NotCranky]

[quote=svelte][quote=briansd1][quote=urbanrealtor]
That “one-must-learn-an-ancient-or-foreign-language-to-speak-English” is just about as credible as the dude belching out smog from his tree-hugger-bestickered volkswagen.[/quote]

Maybe there’s no direct correlation between the study of the foreign languages and how well one speaks English.

Perhaps it’s simply the amount of study/reading of the English language that’s important.

I know a Chinese gal who’s studied English on her own in China back the 1980s. She read all the English classics and speaks English beautifully. Of course, Chinese and English are not related languages.

My own experience is that people who speak a foreign language (e.g. Spanish) speak better English. They use more nuanced expressions.
[/quote]

Geez, my experience has been just the opposite. Most of the people I have known who speak/write multiple languages don’t do any of them well (though they think they do).

Jack of all trades, master of none is appropriate here.[/quote]
It would take a convergence of many fortuitous events and/or sacrifices for a native English speaker from this country to become highly bi-literate. Odds are so against it. Hopefully, this is changing. Perhaps being a jack-of-all-trades is a decent accomplishment, lignustically speaking.

[NotCranky]

[quote=svelte][quote=briansd1][quote=urbanrealtor]
That “one-must-learn-an-ancient-or-foreign-language-to-speak-English” is just about as credible as the dude belching out smog from his tree-hugger-bestickered volkswagen.[/quote]

Maybe there’s no direct correlation between the study of the foreign languages and how well one speaks English.

Perhaps it’s simply the amount of study/reading of the English language that’s important.

I know a Chinese gal who’s studied English on her own in China back the 1980s. She read all the English classics and speaks English beautifully. Of course, Chinese and English are not related languages.

My own experience is that people who speak a foreign language (e.g. Spanish) speak better English. They use more nuanced expressions.
[/quote]

Geez, my experience has been just the opposite. Most of the people I have known who speak/write multiple languages don’t do any of them well (though they think they do).

Jack of all trades, master of none is appropriate here.[/quote]
It would take a convergence of many fortuitous events and/or sacrifices for a native English speaker from this country to become highly bi-literate. Odds are so against it. Hopefully, this is changing. Perhaps being a jack-of-all-trades is a decent accomplishment, lignustically speaking.

[NotCranky]

[quote=svelte][quote=briansd1][quote=urbanrealtor]
That “one-must-learn-an-ancient-or-foreign-language-to-speak-English” is just about as credible as the dude belching out smog from his tree-hugger-bestickered volkswagen.[/quote]

Maybe there’s no direct correlation between the study of the foreign languages and how well one speaks English.

Perhaps it’s simply the amount of study/reading of the English language that’s important.

I know a Chinese gal who’s studied English on her own in China back the 1980s. She read all the English classics and speaks English beautifully. Of course, Chinese and English are not related languages.

My own experience is that people who speak a foreign language (e.g. Spanish) speak better English. They use more nuanced expressions.
[/quote]

Geez, my experience has been just the opposite. Most of the people I have known who speak/write multiple languages don’t do any of them well (though they think they do).

Jack of all trades, master of none is appropriate here.[/quote]
It would take a convergence of many fortuitous events and/or sacrifices for a native English speaker from this country to become highly bi-literate. Odds are so against it. Hopefully, this is changing. Perhaps being a jack-of-all-trades is a decent accomplishment, lignustically speaking.

[Author]

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