OT: “The Self-Made Myth”

[bearishgurl]

I agree with the authors that “timing” can play a role in luck. For instance, those SV “ground-floor entrepreneurs” of tech startups in the 80’s and early 90’s which are now household names made huge fortunes.

Even though there are still startups in SV today, the “golden era of invention” (when the idea of “tech” to the masses was new) has passed. The beneficiaries of this “timed luck” were indeed born between 1950 and 1955. Steve Jobs (with a HS Diploma and 1 yr of college under his belt) was a good example.

[Coronita]

You know. People like to focus on on the success stories. But reality is we never hear about the countless failures. Because, well they failed.

[sdrealtor]

Exactly, most people who have succeeded have failed many times trying. There is always an element of luck in any success or faiulure for that matter. But you dont get lucky keeping the bat on your shoulder, you gotta swing. I have always found that the harder I work, the luckier I get.

[scaredyclassic]

You cannot definitely achieve success by your own efforts but you can definitely achieve failure all by yourself.

[an]

[quote=walterwhite]You cannot definitely achieve success by your own efforts but you can definitely achieve failure all by yourself.[/quote]
No you can’t. Just as success needs good luck, failure needs bad luck too.

[Coronita]

Perhaps the more accurate statement, the more you try increases your odds of getting more lucky…The plausibility of the “luckiness” depends on what you are trying….I don’t think trying by repeatedly buying a lotto ticket would be very fruitful for most people.

Yes the irony is, I see more emphasis on people trying to do the get rich quick thing, than doing the hard sweat thing…

The problem is, I think many people have lost sight of the issue… A lot of people have stopped trying. Or try only for the simpliest, quickest, dirtiest, get rich quick thing. Many many many people, really don’t want to improve their own situation. A lot of folks have gotten too picky, and wouldn’t “stoop that low” to do something. And yet complain about things being “unfair”…Or worse, with the current predicament expect the government to make them whole.

A lot of it comes from picking career choices too and the motivations for picking career choices….

[davelj]

[quote=flu]You know. People like to focus on on the success stories. But reality is we never hear about the countless failures. Because, well they failed.[/quote]

This is what all of these real estate investment program scams are built on. They cherry pick the winners as examples of what everyone should be doing when, in fact, these are the handful of successful folks following their program. The “countless failures” remain conveniently outside of the camera’s view.

Likewise, it’s why everyone should be very suspicious of books by successful people who basically say, “This is how I did it – You can too!” They’ve bought into their own success story, after all. Most would be better off reading a book called, “The 100 Ways I Failed” and learning from that before accelerating off into the sunset looking for “success”.

[Coronita]

[quote=AN][quote=walterwhite]You cannot definitely achieve success by your own efforts but you can definitely achieve failure all by yourself.[/quote]
No you can’t. Just as success needs good luck, failure needs bad luck too.[/quote]

Hey, I pick my own stocks all the time… Oh wait…never mind…. Damn…thanks a lot guys for reminding me…

Actually, I’ve given up trying to pick that one big fish… I’m just trying (emphasis trying) to be right more 51% on small moves… anything more than 51% is a bonus. Anything less than 51% at the end of year, I quit. We’ll see how things workout at the end of the year. Things change all the time…Definitely, not something I can retire on.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=davelj][quote=flu]You know. People like to focus on on the success stories. But reality is we never hear about the countless failures. Because, well they failed.[/quote]

This is what all of these real estate investment program scams are built on. They cherry pick the winners as examples of what everyone should be doing when, in fact, these are the handful of successful folks following their program. The “countless failures” remain conveniently outside of the camera’s view.

Likewise, it’s why everyone should be very suspicious of books by successful people who basically say, “This is how I did it – You can too!” They’ve bought into their own success story, after all. Most would be better off reading a book called, “The 100 Ways I Failed” and learning from that before accelerating off into the sunset looking for “success”.[/quote]

A buddy of mine used to work at Montgomery Street Securities in SF, advising newly minted Silicon Valley millionaires on how best to protect their money (nearly all of them were entrepeneurs who had just hit the big time via sellout).

One of his clients had just sold his company for over $50MM, after having gone through a dozen failures previously. He had literally gone through 12 iterations and cratered each one. My buddy asked him how he knew that the 13th one was gonna work. The guy looked at him and burst out laughing. “I didn’t”, was his response. Meaning, he was going to keep on going until he hit it.

Yeah, luck counts for a lot. But so does persistence.

We live in a very entitled and very lazy society now. Antediluvian values like persistence, sacrifice, hard work, are considered laughable. As are the “immigrant” values of frugality, living within one’s means and doing what it takes to get it done (whatever “it” may be). Why bust your ass when it’s far easier to sit on it and have the gubment hand you a check?

It all comes down to incentives, regardless the discussion. Are they correct or perverse?

[briansd1]

I remain troubled by different questions.

I’d like to know if God has a plan for all of our lives. If so, how does luck or hard work come into play?

Now we have OSHA, but back in the day, the children who were working the coal mines worked pretty damn hard. But did they ever make it?

What’s so special about a self-made person who has achieved financial success and accumulated assets? The person could be a vulgar, uncivilized hustler who knows how to work the system.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1]
What’s so special about a self-made person who has achieved financial success and accumulated assets? The person could be a vulgar, uncivilized hustler who knows how to work the system.[/quote]

Brian: What if the self-made person in question speaks French, doesn’t cuff their trousers and has an acceptable BMI?

Are they “special” then?

There seems to be an interesting cant to your questions, meaning if certain people behave a certain way, then all is well. At that point, we begin to stray into the “legislation of good behavior.” As an American, I could care less about vulgarity or manners, good behavior or bad, so long as what you do doesn’t impinge on my rights or civil liberties, have at it.

[briansd1]

Allan, I’m questioning if a self-made person can be a thoughtful, caring, well-rounded person if he spends all of his time hustling and accumulating assets.

You have corrected posters’ English. So I think that you do care about manners, and propriety.

I believe that there’s something to be said about intellectual curiosity and the quest for knowledge. Money is not everything.

[Anonymous]

[quote=briansd1]Now we have OSHA, but back in the day, the children who were working the coal mines worked pretty damn hard. But did they ever make it? [/quote]

Andrew Carnegie

The bobbin boy

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk]

Andrew Carnegie

The bobbin boy[/quote]

Good point… but one person out of millions.

Andrew Carnegie definitely believed in knowledge and high-culture, and we owe him many of the institutions he founded.

It’s interesting that most of the self-made folks have ambitions for their children to grow up and marry into the more established, civilized world.

For example, professionals of low class backgrounds almost all move to more expensive neighborhoods so that their kids grow up in an upper middle class environment. In essence, those self-made people tacitly admit to the flaws of their own upbringing.

A lot of self-made folks also like to hide their former lives and the backgrounds they came from. That’s an interesting aspect of America where immigrants can come, where nobody knows them, and remake themselves.

[briansd1]

I watched the Frontline story on Murdock phone hacking scandal last night.

It’s interesting how luck and serendipity played an important role in breaking the story and bringing down News of the World.

Even the lawyer who was hired to sue the Murdoch organization said that News of the World could have buried the story if they had played it right.

It also took a victim hiring the right lawyer with integrity to go after the wrong doers. In that case, the lawyer was a small time lawyer in Manchester. A more reputable lawyer at a big law firm would certainly have fallen in line with the establishment.

[Author]

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