- This topic has 39 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 4 months ago by
briansd1.
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April 11, 2012 at 9:57 PM #19688April 12, 2012 at 9:14 AM #741543
poorgradstudent
ParticipantI’m not sure I’d call it a “scam”. Perhaps it qualifies as an “interesting, but financially impractical idea”. There’s no denying it could be really nice to just hop a train to glide up to LA and avoid all that horrible traffic to go to Staples Center or see a show. And who hasn’t opted to drive to the Bay Area rather than deal with flying? There are other countries that have successfully implemented HSR, and transportation is obviously an important role of government. Public highways are far, far more efficient than a makeshift patchwork of private roads could possibly be.
All that said, it’s quite possible the price tag is just too high to make it worthwhile for the benefit HSR would provide. Unfortunately because the plan is constantly shifting, it’s tough to get up to date, quality *objective* analysis. I’m glad there is a careful, drawn out planning process. I do hope some version of the LA/SD line gets done in the next 5-10 years, which seems pretty feasible.
April 12, 2012 at 12:44 PM #741557Essbee
Participant[quote=poorgradstudent] I do hope some version of the LA/SD line gets done in the next 5-10 years, which seems pretty feasible.[/quote]
ha ha ha ha!
No, I think the best-case scenario versions stand for completion in more like 2030, and there is NO plan to include San Diego at ALL. Los Angeles will be the southern-most end of the line. And all at a cost of… what was it… around $200 BILLION???I listen to the John & Ken show (KFI AM 640)(alternating with NPR – ha!) mostly for entertainment value, but I think they are absolutely spot-on on this issue.
April 12, 2012 at 12:59 PM #741560enron_by_the_sea
Participanthttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/31/MN2F1NT19T.DTL
Looks like San Diego folks will first
(1) Drive to train station
(2) Take Amtrak to Burbank
(3) Hop on to HSR to Merced
(4) Change to Amtrak (does it even go Merced yet?)
(5) Change to Cal-Train Bay area.
(6) Rent a car from Cal-train station in bay area or use public transport (if available)– This plan will now cost you only 68 Billion dollars (which we don’t have) instead of 100 billion dollars.
– Please don’t forget to vote for “Millionaire tax” this November (that raises taxes for every non-millionaire too) or else your public school funding will be cut. However HSR must happen under any circustances (or else we are a third-world country)!
April 12, 2012 at 2:37 PM #741567bearishgurl
Participant[quote=enron_by_the_sea]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/31/MN2F1NT19T.DTL
Looks like San Diego folks will first
(1) Drive to train station
(2) Take Amtrak to Burbank
(3) Hop on to HSR to Merced
(4) Change to Amtrak (does it even go Merced yet?)
(5) Change to Cal-Train Bay area.
(6) Rent a car from Cal-train station in bay area or use public transport (if available)– This plan will now cost you only 68 Billion dollars (which we don’t have) instead of 100 billion dollars….[/quote]
L@rd …. This makes Southwest Airlines recent rate hikes look fair. I think I would just as soon keep driving to the bay area … and have my car when I get there.
Uhhh, I don’t think there is enough people in “Merced” to warrant stopping there to embark/disembark. Ohhh, but wait! What about all the urban sprawl around there??
Even so, I can’t imagine enough Merced County residents will travel to LA/SF daily to warrant this route.
Why not just route the HSR up thru the state on the west side of I-5 and Pacheco Pass to connect with the Dublin BART Stn? That seems more direct, convenient and economical (using less track).
April 13, 2012 at 12:19 AM #741592briansd1
GuestI’m not glad there’s a drawn out planning process because that means it will never get done.
I support HSR. But we just need to ram it through all the legal hurdles and build the lines from city center to city center. Downtown San Diego to Downtown LA with a connection to LAX.
April 13, 2012 at 9:29 AM #741606Participant[quote=briansd1]I’m not glad there’s a drawn out planning process because that means it will never get done.
I support HSR. But we just need to ram it through all the legal hurdles and build the lines from city center to city center. Downtown San Diego to Downtown LA with a connection to LAX.[/quote]
I agree, brian, but there is a huge geographical hurdle north of dtn LA and Union Stn (Tejon Pass). It would be very expensive to build another tunnel thru it and its truck-only tunnel is too dangerous to share a passenger train with. That’s why I believe its original path from SoCal was routed eastward (thru RIV/SB Cos).
The train COULD somehow be routed east or west of the 405 but it is residential along the 405 in OC (IF there is SD svc) and NIMBYism from the residents of OC, LA and Ventura Co along the 405 and US-101 would likely kill it unless the tracks are forced-placed under eminent domain (could take 15 yrs to complete this). Maybe I’m missing something but it seems to me that the only feasible route west of Tejon Pass is along US-101 for 50+? miles before it can veer off alongside the SR-33.
It’s never gonna happen along the 101 up the state. Absolutely NOT!
April 13, 2012 at 9:57 AM #741608Participant[quote=briansd1]
I support HSR. But we just need to ram it through all the legal hurdles and build the lines from city center to city center. Downtown San Diego to Downtown LA with a connection to LAX.[/quote]
Hmm… Then you’ll love China. That’s how they got their HSR. Of course, such a system may cause some issues. ( http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/world/asia/25train.html or http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/12/china-high-speed-rail-collapse )
I guess we should not be concerned about adoption of “third world” methods if used to build a train whose main stated purpose is to keep us out of “third world”.
I am actually disappointed to see this argument from you Brian! I don’t see any difference between this argument and the right’s argument that we should get rid of EPA or get rid of all regulation of wall street etc. 🙂
April 13, 2012 at 11:48 AM #741619paramount
Participant[quote=poorgradstudent]I’m not sure I’d call it a “scam”. [/quote]
Ok, I’ll change the title to sham.
April 13, 2012 at 7:51 PM #741637CA renter
ParticipantWhat “public employee union thugs” are you talking about, paramount?
This debacle is going to line the pockets of PRIVATE contractors, which is where most of the fraud and abuse of taxpayer money occurs.
http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/03/01/2743540/rail-project-will-accept-contractors.html
April 13, 2012 at 8:11 PM #741638Participant[quote=CA renter]What “public employee union thugs” are you talking about, paramount?
This debacle is going to line the pockets of PRIVATE contractors, which is where most of the fraud and abuse of taxpayer money occurs.
http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/03/01/2743540/rail-project-will-accept-contractors.html%5B/quote%5D
I completely agree. If this HSR construction ever comes to fruition, it will be entirely contracted out to the private sector. This is NOT a CALTRANS project! The only time they will be involved will be in “right of way” issues.
CALTRANS was never put in place to handle RR projects.
April 13, 2012 at 9:28 PM #741641Participant[quote=CA renter]What “public employee union thugs” are you talking about, paramount?
This debacle is going to line the pockets of PRIVATE contractors, which is where most of the fraud and abuse of taxpayer money occurs.
http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/03/01/2743540/rail-project-will-accept-contractors.html%5B/quote%5D
The dems are pushing this sham project very hard, therefore the union thugs can’t be far behind.
Besides, much of the contract work will be outsourced to China. Including the financing.
April 13, 2012 at 9:40 PM #741643Participant[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]What “public employee union thugs” are you talking about, paramount?
This debacle is going to line the pockets of PRIVATE contractors, which is where most of the fraud and abuse of taxpayer money occurs.
http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/03/01/2743540/rail-project-will-accept-contractors.html%5B/quote%5D
The dems are pushing this sham project very hard, therefore the union thugs can’t be far behind.
Besides, much of the contract work will be outsourced to China. Including the financing.[/quote]
paramount, are you referring to card-carrying American tradesmen here? Or do the Chinese have unions??
April 13, 2012 at 11:01 PM #741644Participant[quote=bearishgurl][quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]What “public employee union thugs” are you talking about, paramount?
This debacle is going to line the pockets of PRIVATE contractors, which is where most of the fraud and abuse of taxpayer money occurs.
http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/03/01/2743540/rail-project-will-accept-contractors.html%5B/quote%5D
The dems are pushing this sham project very hard, therefore the union thugs can’t be far behind.
Besides, much of the contract work will be outsourced to China. Including the financing.[/quote]
paramount, are you referring to card-carrying American tradesmen here? Or do the Chinese have unions??[/quote]
If one American unionized skilled worker (obviously not a bureaucrat) touches this project in the next 20 years I’d be in shock.
No, no – only a bunch of parasitic government groupies will likely ever benefit from this sham.
Just take a look at the rail authority board members – political flunkies who end up on these BS boards all the while collecting big paychecks and pensions for a project that will not materialize as mentioned in 3 lifetimes.
April 18, 2012 at 3:57 PM #741870ParticipantStop California bullet train, state’s top analyst urges
[quote]
The state’s top analyst on Tuesday urged lawmakers to slam the brakes on California’s $68 billion bullet train, cautioning that the newly overhauled plan simply isn’t “strong enough” and relies on “highly speculative” funding sources.The report from the nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office is especially significant as the state Senate and Assembly on Wednesday begin a debate on whether to start building the high-speed rail line, a decision officials revealed Tuesday will likely be delayed into the summer. The report could give a divided Legislature the political cover it needs to halt the biggest public works project in California history; otherwise, lawmakers would have to go against the advice of their own experts.
It is the latest in a series of stinging critiques of the project by independent watchdog groups. But it’s the first analysis since the Brown administration early this month unveiled a scaled-back version of the rail line that was intended to appease critics by trimming the cost by $30 billion, speeding up the start of service by five years and electrifying the Caltrain line by the end of the decade.
[/quote]Somehow I don’t think “lets start building it first and then we will figure out” mentality is going to care much about it!
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