OT: Syria: Chemical Weapons Launched by Rebels?

[Jazzman]

Wars always seem messy and complex up close. History tends to rationalize, or justify events into a digestible format. Imagine what post world war periods were like. All seems neat and tidy now. I don’t think there was anything to win in Afghanistan or Iraq in a war sense. There were stated objectives which seem to have been partially fulfilled, but the underlying causes have been ratcheted up if anything. Whatever you think about US foreign policy, I believe they are the world policeman of choice at the moment.

[paramount]

Please, please, Watch this video (it’s quick):

http://youtu.be/kB2lh6N0m4w

[CA renter]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=CA renter]Thanks for sharing that video, paramount. Makes sense to me, too. There is very little reason to believe what we’re being told by our govt.[/quote]

I don’t know which version is accurate, but is there a reason to believe the Russian government over the US government?[/quote]

I don’t fully trust anyone who is in power, nor those who want to be in power. They have every reason to lie to the masses, so everything they tell us should be researched and confirmed or denied. More than that, we need to know the WHOLE story behind what’s going on. This will sometimes require us to look back many years or decades in order to understand the sequence of events that lead us to the current situation. And we need to search through multiple sources of information, from different perspectives, in order to get even a hint of the truth.

We know for a fact that we’ve been lied to on many occasions in the past. The government and the MSM mouthpieces have lost credibility. We should not go to war unless there is ample, verified evidence that the American people, here in this country, would be endangered if not for military action.

No more wars for oil companies or the military industrial complex. No more wars that leave in their wake “collateral damage” where tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are left dead or maimed.

I always find it ironic that we don’t have enough money for healthcare or Social Security, but there is never any hesitation to spend trillions of dollars on wars, drones, and killing machines.

[SK in CV]

[quote=CA renter]

I don’t fully trust anyone who is in power, nor those who want to be in power. They have every reason to lie to the masses, so everything they tell us should be researched and confirmed or denied. More than that, we need to know the WHOLE story behind what’s going on. This will sometimes require us to look back many years or decades in order to understand the sequence of events that lead us to the current situation. And we need to search through multiple sources of information, from different perspectives, in order to get even a hint of the truth.

We know for a fact that we’ve been lied to on many occasions in the past. The government and the MSM mouthpieces have lost credibility. We should not go to war unless there is ample, verified evidence that the American people, here in this country, would be endangered if not for military action.

No more wars for oil companies or the military industrial complex. No more wars that leave in their wake “collateral damage” where tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are left dead or maimed.

I always find it ironic that we don’t have enough money for healthcare or Social Security, but there is never any hesitation to spend trillions of dollars on wars, drones, and killing machines.[/quote]

I pretty much agree with all of this. I was only responding to what appeared to be a knee-jerk reaction rejecting what the US government says, in favor of what other, equally untrustworthy governments claims.

I don’t think most ordinary people will ever really know the truth. The fact is, we will never know if what we’re looking at is genuine evidence, and in many cases don’t have the technical knowledge to evaluate raw evidence even if we did have access.

That said, I did find this pretty compelling:

Veteran Intelligence Professionals Warn Obama on Syrian Intel

There are some names on that list that make me a little skeptical, though not all. And none of them make me near as skeptical as Brennan, Clapper and Alexander.

[CA renter]

SK,

We’re in agreement about the inability and impracticality of us getting all of the information necessary, and being able to dissect and analyze it well enough to be fully informed about this situation…or any foreign policy issues where there are convoluted relationships with various parties that tend to go back and forth, not to mention a long history that often pre-dates even our own U.S. history.

This is why I tend to favor an isolationist and non-violent approach unless there is clear and compelling evidence that American lives, on our continent, are in danger.

Thanks for sharing that link, too. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire. There are too many voices who oppose the “official” story being sold to us by people who have a history of lying. I sincerely hope we do not do anything stupid here.

[paramount]

It does seem we were misled on Fukushima as another example.

[Jazzman]

SK and CA you are both spot on. Speculation, pontificating, and opining from the comfort of one’s armchair may satisfy an inner need to understand, rationalize, and justify, but as you both mention the realities–whether deliberately misrepresented, or not–are missing so much detail the wrong conclusions are as likely to be drawn. It’s a good habit to preface one’s opinions with that admission, but then it’s much harder to find any listeners.

[no_such_reality]

I’m stay waiting for someone to tell me what we gain by doing this?

Call me a cynic, but “what’s in it for us?”

other than a feel good, ‘we stopped a bad guy’. He’ll just be replaced by another.

[Jazzman]

I don’t think it’s always about, or should always be about “what’s in it for us?” We are all part of humanity. If an old man drops his wallet on the sidewalk, by picking it up for him, you are not calculating what the gain is (I hope).

[paramount]

Wow, a Putin Op Ed in the New York Times!

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]Wow, a Putin Op Ed in the New York Times!

That was excellent.

[scaredyclassic]

Lao tzu would probably say stay home, chop wood, carry water.

[FlyerInHi]

Doesn’t anyone take exception to Putin’s claim that Americans are not exceptional?

[SK in CV]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Doesn’t anyone take exception to Putin’s claim that Americans are not exceptional?[/quote]

I’m sure someone does. I don’t.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=Jazzman]I don’t think it’s always about, or should always be about “what’s in it for us?” We are all part of humanity. If an old man drops his wallet on the sidewalk, by picking it up for him, you are not calculating what the gain is (I hope).[/quote]

When you’re dealing with it as a country, you should always understand what’s in it for us.

Particularly, when contemplating messing in another country’s civil war.

BTW, here’s the people the let’s do something crowd will support.

And yes, that’s an execution.

[Author]

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