OT: Skool tout

[outtamojo]

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/california/rankings

San Marcos High ranked #3 in California, #11 in the NATION- let’s hear it for the 92078!

[CA renter]

Yes!

Awesome job done by the SMSD teachers, parents, and students!

[Coronita]

Interesting….The AP pass rate though isn’t it 55%?

versus say westview which is 83%?

I don’t know but the numbers don’t seem to tell the entire story…

For instance San Marcos indicates 100% of the student body participates in AP classes. But if 55% only pass,

Westview, only 67% participate in AP but 83% pass…

If that really is the case (I don’t know if it is)….To me, this seems that SM is doing a lousy job culling kids that shouldn’t be taking AP in the first place, wasting resources on kids that are taking AP that shouldn’t be, at the expense of other kids who would do well…. It sounds cool to send ever kid to AP Calculus, but if 45% aren’t gonna make it, what’s the point besides looking good on paperv that you sent 100% of the students to AP? It seems more like a misappropriation of resources, because you’re spending time on kids that had no shot at passing AP…

Versus I think other schools that already have weeded out kids that wouldn’t have passed and not placed them into the AP program to begin with, allowing the school the focus resources more effectively….

With all due respect, I smell a rat…Seems like just a numbers game to me to make things look better.

(Go ahead…flame away)…

[outtamojo]

[quote=flu]Interesting….The AP pass rate though isn’t it 55%?

versus say westview which is 83%?

I don’t know but the numbers don’t seem to tell the entire story…

For instance San Marcos indicates 100% of the student body participates in AP classes. But if 55% only pass,

Westview, only 67% participate in AP but 83% pass…

To me, this seems that SM is doing a lousy job culling kids that shouldn’t be taking AP in the first place, wasting resources on kids that are taking AP that shouldn’t be, at the expense of other kids who would do well…. It sounds cool to send ever kid to AP Calculus, but if 45% aren’t gonna make it, what’s the point besides looking good on paperv that you sent 100% of the students to AP? It seems more like a misappropriation of resources, because you’re spending time on kids that had no shot at passing AP…

Versus I think other schools that already have weeded out kids that wouldn’t have passed and not placed them into the AP program to begin with, allowing the school the focus resources more effectively….

Seems like just a numbers game to me to make things look better.[/quote]

Here is what they use to rank schools

http://www.usnews.com/education/high-schools/articles/2012/05/07/best-high-schools-methodology

“…is based on the key principles that a great high school must serve all of its students well, not just those who are college-bound….” so it appears that you are correct in that SMHS does try to pull the less gifted up by their bootstraps, which I find somewhat commendable.

This is what you would be more interested in I think: http://www.usnews.com/best-high-schools/rankings/math-science

[UCGal]

I see a migration of school obsessed families migrating from Carmel Valley and 4S to San Marcos in the near future.

Pleasantly surprised to see UCHS is third in the district, 66th in the state, 371st in the nation by the criteria of US News… I’m not planning on moving so it’s good to see that by at least some criteria the local school doesn’t totally blow chunks.

[bearishgurl]

Dublin High in my old stomping grounds came in 4th – has a VERY low student to teacher ratio ….

DHS used to serve THREE towns back in the day …. it’s certainly come a l-o-o-o-ng way, LOL.

[bearishgurl]

I’m noticing the CA API scores listed by USN&WP are 2010 scores, NOT 2011. Maybe it took them a while to do the study. Most of the CA schools’ API’s improved in 2011. Not sure how all states rank their schools … or even if all of them do.

[Coronita]

[quote=UCGal]I see a migration of school obsessed families migrating from Carmel Valley and 4S to San Marcos in the near future.

Pleasantly surprised to see UCHS is third in the district, 66th in the state, 371st in the nation by the criteria of US News… I’m not planning on moving so it’s good to see that by at least some criteria the local school doesn’t totally blow chunks.[/quote]

won’t be me… 🙂 And no, I don’t care…. I just was curious about how the numbers came out to be….

[sdrealtor]

Pretty sure this is the SEH effect. The first of a large block of kids from SEH are starting to hit that school. Many are from minority families but there isnt that much diversity as they are socioeconomically very homogenous regardless of ethnicity. Then you factor in that many of the truly economically disadvantaged kids were shifted over to the new high school north of 78. Lastly they are likely viewing rapidly improving academic perferormance over the last decade that is more attributable to the shift in mix of students rather than the improvement per se of specific populations.

Dont get me wrong. Its a GREAT story but I suspect the story is less of an actual improvement in the school system itself and more of the City of SM remaking itself very successfully as an upper middle class community by attracting well planned development in far flung areas supported by MR fees. Sometimes it works!

[ocrenter]

I agree with flu. something’s off.

I’ve always been an advocate that San Marcos High is up and coming and I am happy to see the improvement.

But I really wonder about the number.

How in the world do they get 100% of the kids to take the AP test. someone has been tweeking their policies to maximize their ranking.

[sdrealtor]

that too

[Coronita]

Please folks. Don’t get me wrong here. I’m not trying to bash SMHS or anything. I just think it’s strange that IF the numbers reported are true and IF my understanding is correct (which it might not be).

I don’t understand why a school would be sending 100% or near 100% of the student body to take AP classes knowing that the majority of them aren’t going to be passing.

AP classes are “harder” than normal classes. In addition, some students don’t have academic performance for them to succeed in an AP level class. And others might not have the desire to be in an AP/intense class.

Doing this imho is disservice to students and teachers for many reasons.

1. A student who takes an AP class who doesn’t have a chance of passing probably should have a course grade reflecting that….

Getting a bunch of C’s in an AP classes isn’t going to be more helpful to getting to a college than getting a bunch of A’s and B’s in a non AP class.

2. So I don’t understand why 100% participation would be a good thing…Unless the school is somewhat bending the rules and inflating the grades.. IE: telling students you can’t get lower than a B- if you take an AP class ,regardless of how you do on the actual AP exam….

But then, if that’s the case, that’s cheating…

3. Telling teachers they have to teach AP level to every student is a disservice to the teachers. Teaching resources are limited…Spending time to teach the same higher level content to everyone (even those that aren’t ready for it) is a waste of resources. It doesn’t help people who lack the ability and drive to be in an AP level. And it takes away from folks who are at the AP level, since it’s less time that can be dedicated to helping them…

4. To me this seems more of a product of the no-child left behind program, only run in reverse… Rather than “dumbing down” to a lowest common denominator approach, schools here on the surface appear to try to be “smarting up the average”……..despite the obvious fact (that lots of parents don’t want to accept ) that most kids are NOT the same and do NOT have the same skill level.
Not all kids are born equal with equal skill sets…AP classes are not a prequisite for getting into college… So I’m not sure why this ranking system would be trying to give parents the false idea that we everyone should be taught at AP levels when your pass rate is only 55%…

[outtamojo]

[quote=ocrenter]I agree with flu. something’s off.

I’ve always been an advocate that San Marcos High is up and coming and I am happy to see the improvement.

But I really wonder about the number.

How in the world do they get 100% of the kids to take the AP test. someone has been tweeking their policies to maximize their ranking.[/quote]

100% participation? Hard to imagine ANY high school without a few stoners lol. That school ranked #8 in La Jolla has a 100% participation rate also, but with a 32% pass rate. I think if they SMHS were to do some culling the pass rate would be higher, but then again, shouldn’t your public schools make every possible attempt to at least expose the less gifted/disadvantaged kids to the higher echelons of academia? Keep in mind SMHS is 41% economically disadvantaged.
For comparison, that school in Fremont ranked #13 has about 4% econ disadvantaged, 85% participation, 88% pass rate(AP).

[Coronita]

[quote=outtamojo][quote=ocrenter]I agree with flu. something’s off.

I’ve always been an advocate that San Marcos High is up and coming and I am happy to see the improvement.

But I really wonder about the number.

How in the world do they get 100% of the kids to take the AP test. someone has been tweeking their policies to maximize their ranking.[/quote]

100% participation? Hard to imagine ANY high school without a few stoners lol. That school ranked #8 in La Jolla has a 100% participation rate also, but with a 32% pass rate. I think if they SMHS were to do some culling the pass rate would be higher, but then again, shouldn’t your public schools make every possible attempt to at least expose the less gifted/disadvantaged kids to the higher echelons of academia?[/quote]

No it shouldn’t because AP is not a prerequisite for getting into college. It’s more like a “GATE” program than a required curriculum….At least that was when I went through the public education system.

In our AP classes..People that took AP classes passed with 3 or better near 90%… And it was simple why. The teacher of AP clases basically flunked everyone first (ok gave everyone a C based on the teaching program), and if you did a 4 or better would go back and retroactively update your grade based on how you did on your exam…That way, the first two weeks of class, people who couldn’t make the cut opted not to do the AP class.

But folks that didn’t take AP didn’t mean they didn’t get into college…

AP classes are just that….. “Advanced Placement”…

A school that reports 100% participation in an “Advanced Placement” is just ridiculous… Because not everyone is “advanced”…

and it’s funny that U.S. News and World Report forgot about this key concept..

[bearishgurl]

Upon a closer look, the USN&WP stated that Dublin HS had 497 students. I remembered it to hold at least 1500 students back in the day and I know its attendance area has now turned into an overcrowded megalopolis. Upon perusing its Wiki page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_High_School_%28Dublin,_California%29

I learned it now has a “school within a school” (similar to SDHS in SD) called the “Engineering and Design Academy.” Perhaps THIS is the “school” which won the USN&WP award and where 100% of students took and passed AP classes! I also learned it won a similar award in 2010.

Acc to its wiki page, DHS appears to be currently in the process of turning into a mid-century monstrosity (with $120M from voter-approved “Prop C” funds), is slated to be finished this year to hold 2500 students!

I think the individual school info put out by USN&WP is a bit misleading as to CA schools, perhaps thru no fault of their own. These awards were such a large project and perhaps they depended upon the schools to report the info to them and the magazine likely did not really understand how each school is structured.

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