OT: Release of the DOJ torture transcripts.

[beachlover]

Thanks to everyone for sharing your views. It’s interesting reading. I’ll share my views.

The USA has condemned torture through out our history. In addition to the Geneva Convention I would suggest reading the UN Convention Against Torture that the US signed. And if you have any doubt that waterboarding is torture, trying googling ‘is waterboarding torture’ for some interesting reading.

Many have stated that these individuals, set on destroying our country and killing as many of our citizens as possible, deserve to be tortured. Frankly, I don’t think we can debate this point.

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

My view is on principle. Not if we waterboarded someone 83 times or 183 times or 1083 times. My view is… is waterboarding torture. Yes. Does it violate US and International laws that we have signed. Yes. Can it be justified because we were attacked. No.

But, that’s my opinion and this forum welcomes different thoughts.

[ucodegen]

The only procedure that I know of, that could be called torture, and works.. is sleep deprivation. It is hard to lie and keep a consistent story when you can barely focus because of sleep. I don’t see the other methods as being that effective.

PS: Maybe us working stiffs can call required heavy overtime hours to bring schedules in, as a form of torture?

[ucodegen]

The only procedure that I know of, that could be called torture, and works.. is sleep deprivation. It is hard to lie and keep a consistent story when you can barely focus because of sleep. I don’t see the other methods as being that effective.

PS: Maybe us working stiffs can call required heavy overtime hours to bring schedules in, as a form of torture?

[ucodegen]

The only procedure that I know of, that could be called torture, and works.. is sleep deprivation. It is hard to lie and keep a consistent story when you can barely focus because of sleep. I don’t see the other methods as being that effective.

PS: Maybe us working stiffs can call required heavy overtime hours to bring schedules in, as a form of torture?

[ucodegen]

The only procedure that I know of, that could be called torture, and works.. is sleep deprivation. It is hard to lie and keep a consistent story when you can barely focus because of sleep. I don’t see the other methods as being that effective.

PS: Maybe us working stiffs can call required heavy overtime hours to bring schedules in, as a form of torture?

[ucodegen]

The only procedure that I know of, that could be called torture, and works.. is sleep deprivation. It is hard to lie and keep a consistent story when you can barely focus because of sleep. I don’t see the other methods as being that effective.

PS: Maybe us working stiffs can call required heavy overtime hours to bring schedules in, as a form of torture?

[socrattt]

[quote=beachlover]

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

[/quote]

Beachlover, unfortunately in America or any other country in the world nothing is black and white. There is gray in just about everything. The thought of torturing probably didn’t occur until terrorists destroyed two sacred buildings in this country with many of our citizens.

You may want to read some laws about what is deemed legal or illegal in our government’s current actions. We may not all agree with the stimulus packages, but unfortunately we don’t have that choice. Sometimes things have to be done for a reason and neither you or I have a choice in the matter. If they work they work and if they don’t what can we do?

You might want to step outside the box for a moment and realize that playing by the rules doesn’t always work. Ask a fellow responsible American about that!

[socrattt]

[quote=beachlover]

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

[/quote]

Beachlover, unfortunately in America or any other country in the world nothing is black and white. There is gray in just about everything. The thought of torturing probably didn’t occur until terrorists destroyed two sacred buildings in this country with many of our citizens.

You may want to read some laws about what is deemed legal or illegal in our government’s current actions. We may not all agree with the stimulus packages, but unfortunately we don’t have that choice. Sometimes things have to be done for a reason and neither you or I have a choice in the matter. If they work they work and if they don’t what can we do?

You might want to step outside the box for a moment and realize that playing by the rules doesn’t always work. Ask a fellow responsible American about that!

[socrattt]

[quote=beachlover]

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

[/quote]

Beachlover, unfortunately in America or any other country in the world nothing is black and white. There is gray in just about everything. The thought of torturing probably didn’t occur until terrorists destroyed two sacred buildings in this country with many of our citizens.

You may want to read some laws about what is deemed legal or illegal in our government’s current actions. We may not all agree with the stimulus packages, but unfortunately we don’t have that choice. Sometimes things have to be done for a reason and neither you or I have a choice in the matter. If they work they work and if they don’t what can we do?

You might want to step outside the box for a moment and realize that playing by the rules doesn’t always work. Ask a fellow responsible American about that!

[socrattt]

[quote=beachlover]

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

[/quote]

Beachlover, unfortunately in America or any other country in the world nothing is black and white. There is gray in just about everything. The thought of torturing probably didn’t occur until terrorists destroyed two sacred buildings in this country with many of our citizens.

You may want to read some laws about what is deemed legal or illegal in our government’s current actions. We may not all agree with the stimulus packages, but unfortunately we don’t have that choice. Sometimes things have to be done for a reason and neither you or I have a choice in the matter. If they work they work and if they don’t what can we do?

You might want to step outside the box for a moment and realize that playing by the rules doesn’t always work. Ask a fellow responsible American about that!

[socrattt]

[quote=beachlover]

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

[/quote]

Beachlover, unfortunately in America or any other country in the world nothing is black and white. There is gray in just about everything. The thought of torturing probably didn’t occur until terrorists destroyed two sacred buildings in this country with many of our citizens.

You may want to read some laws about what is deemed legal or illegal in our government’s current actions. We may not all agree with the stimulus packages, but unfortunately we don’t have that choice. Sometimes things have to be done for a reason and neither you or I have a choice in the matter. If they work they work and if they don’t what can we do?

You might want to step outside the box for a moment and realize that playing by the rules doesn’t always work. Ask a fellow responsible American about that!

[felix]

Just today it has been reported that Dick Cheney asked that the Obama administration release the complete info on the interrogation activities. His reason was to demonstrate the valuable intelligence was gathered and what this information helped prevent.

I won’t hold my breath waiting for this info to be released. The Obama administration isn’t about to produce any info that contradicts one of their main arguments, that “torture” doesn’t work or result in reliable info.

Next, the techniques used to gain this information did not fit the strict definition of torture. Torture, strictly defined is required to cause either permanent physical or psychological damage to the subject. The techniques we have and still use do not cause either.

[felix]

Just today it has been reported that Dick Cheney asked that the Obama administration release the complete info on the interrogation activities. His reason was to demonstrate the valuable intelligence was gathered and what this information helped prevent.

I won’t hold my breath waiting for this info to be released. The Obama administration isn’t about to produce any info that contradicts one of their main arguments, that “torture” doesn’t work or result in reliable info.

Next, the techniques used to gain this information did not fit the strict definition of torture. Torture, strictly defined is required to cause either permanent physical or psychological damage to the subject. The techniques we have and still use do not cause either.

[felix]

Just today it has been reported that Dick Cheney asked that the Obama administration release the complete info on the interrogation activities. His reason was to demonstrate the valuable intelligence was gathered and what this information helped prevent.

I won’t hold my breath waiting for this info to be released. The Obama administration isn’t about to produce any info that contradicts one of their main arguments, that “torture” doesn’t work or result in reliable info.

Next, the techniques used to gain this information did not fit the strict definition of torture. Torture, strictly defined is required to cause either permanent physical or psychological damage to the subject. The techniques we have and still use do not cause either.

[felix]

Just today it has been reported that Dick Cheney asked that the Obama administration release the complete info on the interrogation activities. His reason was to demonstrate the valuable intelligence was gathered and what this information helped prevent.

I won’t hold my breath waiting for this info to be released. The Obama administration isn’t about to produce any info that contradicts one of their main arguments, that “torture” doesn’t work or result in reliable info.

Next, the techniques used to gain this information did not fit the strict definition of torture. Torture, strictly defined is required to cause either permanent physical or psychological damage to the subject. The techniques we have and still use do not cause either.

[Author]

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