OT: Public pay & benefits

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.

[CA renter]

Looks like their pay is very much in line (or better) than for police and fire departments out here. Note: this does NOT appear to include overtime!

The reported across-the-board wage increases do not tell the whole story. To illustrate, you will note below two examples, one an urban community and the other a suburban community. The numbers have been rounded slightly downward for ease of computation and illustration.

First, the urban community. With a starting police salary of $30,000, there is a maximum of $76,000 in year 10. This represents a $46,000 increase over 10 years, or more than 150 percent, for an average in excess of 15 percent per year.

In the suburban community, we have a starting salary of $33,000, which reaches a maximum of $90,000 in the 7th year, for an increase of $57,000, or a 172 percent increase, which is more than 24 percent per year.

But wait, it gets better. Or I should say, worse. The top salaries noted of $76,000 and $90,000 respectively, will be increasing during the working career of the police officer, so that in the case of the urban community with the 10 year guide, and assuming continuing interest arbitration awards of 4 percent, that guide will have increased to $112,000 at the top step. In the case of the suburban community with the 7 step guide, such guide will have increased (assuming 4 percent interest arbitration awards) to $118,000.

In the case of the suburban community, assuming 4 percent interest arbitration awards continue, the top step patrolman will be over $100,000 by 2010.

http://www.njslom.org/magart_0408_pg52.html

[CA renter]

Looks like their pay is very much in line (or better) than for police and fire departments out here. Note: this does NOT appear to include overtime!

The reported across-the-board wage increases do not tell the whole story. To illustrate, you will note below two examples, one an urban community and the other a suburban community. The numbers have been rounded slightly downward for ease of computation and illustration.

First, the urban community. With a starting police salary of $30,000, there is a maximum of $76,000 in year 10. This represents a $46,000 increase over 10 years, or more than 150 percent, for an average in excess of 15 percent per year.

In the suburban community, we have a starting salary of $33,000, which reaches a maximum of $90,000 in the 7th year, for an increase of $57,000, or a 172 percent increase, which is more than 24 percent per year.

But wait, it gets better. Or I should say, worse. The top salaries noted of $76,000 and $90,000 respectively, will be increasing during the working career of the police officer, so that in the case of the urban community with the 10 year guide, and assuming continuing interest arbitration awards of 4 percent, that guide will have increased to $112,000 at the top step. In the case of the suburban community with the 7 step guide, such guide will have increased (assuming 4 percent interest arbitration awards) to $118,000.

In the case of the suburban community, assuming 4 percent interest arbitration awards continue, the top step patrolman will be over $100,000 by 2010.

http://www.njslom.org/magart_0408_pg52.html

[CA renter]

Looks like their pay is very much in line (or better) than for police and fire departments out here. Note: this does NOT appear to include overtime!

The reported across-the-board wage increases do not tell the whole story. To illustrate, you will note below two examples, one an urban community and the other a suburban community. The numbers have been rounded slightly downward for ease of computation and illustration.

First, the urban community. With a starting police salary of $30,000, there is a maximum of $76,000 in year 10. This represents a $46,000 increase over 10 years, or more than 150 percent, for an average in excess of 15 percent per year.

In the suburban community, we have a starting salary of $33,000, which reaches a maximum of $90,000 in the 7th year, for an increase of $57,000, or a 172 percent increase, which is more than 24 percent per year.

But wait, it gets better. Or I should say, worse. The top salaries noted of $76,000 and $90,000 respectively, will be increasing during the working career of the police officer, so that in the case of the urban community with the 10 year guide, and assuming continuing interest arbitration awards of 4 percent, that guide will have increased to $112,000 at the top step. In the case of the suburban community with the 7 step guide, such guide will have increased (assuming 4 percent interest arbitration awards) to $118,000.

In the case of the suburban community, assuming 4 percent interest arbitration awards continue, the top step patrolman will be over $100,000 by 2010.

http://www.njslom.org/magart_0408_pg52.html

[CA renter]

Looks like their pay is very much in line (or better) than for police and fire departments out here. Note: this does NOT appear to include overtime!

The reported across-the-board wage increases do not tell the whole story. To illustrate, you will note below two examples, one an urban community and the other a suburban community. The numbers have been rounded slightly downward for ease of computation and illustration.

First, the urban community. With a starting police salary of $30,000, there is a maximum of $76,000 in year 10. This represents a $46,000 increase over 10 years, or more than 150 percent, for an average in excess of 15 percent per year.

In the suburban community, we have a starting salary of $33,000, which reaches a maximum of $90,000 in the 7th year, for an increase of $57,000, or a 172 percent increase, which is more than 24 percent per year.

But wait, it gets better. Or I should say, worse. The top salaries noted of $76,000 and $90,000 respectively, will be increasing during the working career of the police officer, so that in the case of the urban community with the 10 year guide, and assuming continuing interest arbitration awards of 4 percent, that guide will have increased to $112,000 at the top step. In the case of the suburban community with the 7 step guide, such guide will have increased (assuming 4 percent interest arbitration awards) to $118,000.

In the case of the suburban community, assuming 4 percent interest arbitration awards continue, the top step patrolman will be over $100,000 by 2010.

http://www.njslom.org/magart_0408_pg52.html

[CA renter]

Looks like their pay is very much in line (or better) than for police and fire departments out here. Note: this does NOT appear to include overtime!

The reported across-the-board wage increases do not tell the whole story. To illustrate, you will note below two examples, one an urban community and the other a suburban community. The numbers have been rounded slightly downward for ease of computation and illustration.

First, the urban community. With a starting police salary of $30,000, there is a maximum of $76,000 in year 10. This represents a $46,000 increase over 10 years, or more than 150 percent, for an average in excess of 15 percent per year.

In the suburban community, we have a starting salary of $33,000, which reaches a maximum of $90,000 in the 7th year, for an increase of $57,000, or a 172 percent increase, which is more than 24 percent per year.

But wait, it gets better. Or I should say, worse. The top salaries noted of $76,000 and $90,000 respectively, will be increasing during the working career of the police officer, so that in the case of the urban community with the 10 year guide, and assuming continuing interest arbitration awards of 4 percent, that guide will have increased to $112,000 at the top step. In the case of the suburban community with the 7 step guide, such guide will have increased (assuming 4 percent interest arbitration awards) to $118,000.

In the case of the suburban community, assuming 4 percent interest arbitration awards continue, the top step patrolman will be over $100,000 by 2010.

http://www.njslom.org/magart_0408_pg52.html

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.[/quote]

In general, volunteer departments are in rural areas where paid fire departments are not needed, or where they can’t afford one. If you look at a map of the U.S., you’ll quickly see why we appear to have such a large volunteer force. Things are different from department to department, but in many (most?) cases, these departments would not have a staffed station. If a call comes in, the volunteers carry radios around with them and they meet where the call is located (usually one or two will go to the station first to get the engine, or it’s possible someone might bring the engine home). Can you imagine the reponse times in an urban/suburban setting?

In urban/suburban areas, if there is a volunteer component to a paid department, it would be used for training new recruits. Of course, the promise/hope of a job in the paid force is the incentive that makes these kids work for “free” (it still costs the department WRT administrative and training costs, equipment, insurance, etc.). If they don’t think the volunteer experience will land them a job, or significantly increase their chances, I guarantee you there would be precious few full-time volunteers, if any (and the ones who would volunteer F/T are the weird “groupie” types that are actually very dangerous — nobody wants to hire those).

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.[/quote]

In general, volunteer departments are in rural areas where paid fire departments are not needed, or where they can’t afford one. If you look at a map of the U.S., you’ll quickly see why we appear to have such a large volunteer force. Things are different from department to department, but in many (most?) cases, these departments would not have a staffed station. If a call comes in, the volunteers carry radios around with them and they meet where the call is located (usually one or two will go to the station first to get the engine, or it’s possible someone might bring the engine home). Can you imagine the reponse times in an urban/suburban setting?

In urban/suburban areas, if there is a volunteer component to a paid department, it would be used for training new recruits. Of course, the promise/hope of a job in the paid force is the incentive that makes these kids work for “free” (it still costs the department WRT administrative and training costs, equipment, insurance, etc.). If they don’t think the volunteer experience will land them a job, or significantly increase their chances, I guarantee you there would be precious few full-time volunteers, if any (and the ones who would volunteer F/T are the weird “groupie” types that are actually very dangerous — nobody wants to hire those).

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.[/quote]

In general, volunteer departments are in rural areas where paid fire departments are not needed, or where they can’t afford one. If you look at a map of the U.S., you’ll quickly see why we appear to have such a large volunteer force. Things are different from department to department, but in many (most?) cases, these departments would not have a staffed station. If a call comes in, the volunteers carry radios around with them and they meet where the call is located (usually one or two will go to the station first to get the engine, or it’s possible someone might bring the engine home). Can you imagine the reponse times in an urban/suburban setting?

In urban/suburban areas, if there is a volunteer component to a paid department, it would be used for training new recruits. Of course, the promise/hope of a job in the paid force is the incentive that makes these kids work for “free” (it still costs the department WRT administrative and training costs, equipment, insurance, etc.). If they don’t think the volunteer experience will land them a job, or significantly increase their chances, I guarantee you there would be precious few full-time volunteers, if any (and the ones who would volunteer F/T are the weird “groupie” types that are actually very dangerous — nobody wants to hire those).

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.[/quote]

In general, volunteer departments are in rural areas where paid fire departments are not needed, or where they can’t afford one. If you look at a map of the U.S., you’ll quickly see why we appear to have such a large volunteer force. Things are different from department to department, but in many (most?) cases, these departments would not have a staffed station. If a call comes in, the volunteers carry radios around with them and they meet where the call is located (usually one or two will go to the station first to get the engine, or it’s possible someone might bring the engine home). Can you imagine the reponse times in an urban/suburban setting?

In urban/suburban areas, if there is a volunteer component to a paid department, it would be used for training new recruits. Of course, the promise/hope of a job in the paid force is the incentive that makes these kids work for “free” (it still costs the department WRT administrative and training costs, equipment, insurance, etc.). If they don’t think the volunteer experience will land them a job, or significantly increase their chances, I guarantee you there would be precious few full-time volunteers, if any (and the ones who would volunteer F/T are the weird “groupie” types that are actually very dangerous — nobody wants to hire those).

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.[/quote]

In general, volunteer departments are in rural areas where paid fire departments are not needed, or where they can’t afford one. If you look at a map of the U.S., you’ll quickly see why we appear to have such a large volunteer force. Things are different from department to department, but in many (most?) cases, these departments would not have a staffed station. If a call comes in, the volunteers carry radios around with them and they meet where the call is located (usually one or two will go to the station first to get the engine, or it’s possible someone might bring the engine home). Can you imagine the reponse times in an urban/suburban setting?

In urban/suburban areas, if there is a volunteer component to a paid department, it would be used for training new recruits. Of course, the promise/hope of a job in the paid force is the incentive that makes these kids work for “free” (it still costs the department WRT administrative and training costs, equipment, insurance, etc.). If they don’t think the volunteer experience will land them a job, or significantly increase their chances, I guarantee you there would be precious few full-time volunteers, if any (and the ones who would volunteer F/T are the weird “groupie” types that are actually very dangerous — nobody wants to hire those).

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]Thats right I was in NJ. How was I to know that career included lifetime vacation rights in SoCal.[/quote]

Nobody said anything about lifetime “vacation rights” in SoCal. Most of the firefighters I’m familiar with are native Californians. They are not here on “vacation” and they have as much of a right to live, work, and retire in their home state as someone in New Jersey (or any other state) has to live, work, and retire in theirs.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]Thats right I was in NJ. How was I to know that career included lifetime vacation rights in SoCal.[/quote]

Nobody said anything about lifetime “vacation rights” in SoCal. Most of the firefighters I’m familiar with are native Californians. They are not here on “vacation” and they have as much of a right to live, work, and retire in their home state as someone in New Jersey (or any other state) has to live, work, and retire in theirs.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]Thats right I was in NJ. How was I to know that career included lifetime vacation rights in SoCal.[/quote]

Nobody said anything about lifetime “vacation rights” in SoCal. Most of the firefighters I’m familiar with are native Californians. They are not here on “vacation” and they have as much of a right to live, work, and retire in their home state as someone in New Jersey (or any other state) has to live, work, and retire in theirs.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]Thats right I was in NJ. How was I to know that career included lifetime vacation rights in SoCal.[/quote]

Nobody said anything about lifetime “vacation rights” in SoCal. Most of the firefighters I’m familiar with are native Californians. They are not here on “vacation” and they have as much of a right to live, work, and retire in their home state as someone in New Jersey (or any other state) has to live, work, and retire in theirs.

[Author]

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