OT: Public pay & benefits

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]

Bottom line, anyone who has not seen a pay cut these past few years is probably overpaid (others would do their jobs for significantly less). Whether or not that money coming out of my pocket is going to a public employer or a private employer doesn’t matter — I’m still overpaying. Why don’t *they* take a pay cut then, since they have such an issue with overcompensation?[/quote]

Arguably there’s the issue of “choice.” You have no choice where paying taxes are concerned. Where private companies are concerned, you can choose where to spend your dollars – even if it’s an issue of using a company with the “least overpaid” employees. There are all sorts of businesses that you can patronize in which the employees aren’t overpaid (even by your standard): co-ops for food, credit unions for banking, mutual insurance companies for insurance, etc. etc. If you’re patronizing businesses with overpaid employees (according to you) it’s probably in the name of “convenience”… which costs money. The problem with high ideals is that they’re seldom easy to live by.

[quote=CA renter]
And no, it’s not at all about the “free market.” As you know, people are essentially forced to use banks in order to conduct business these days. I don’t have a choice WRT overpaying their employees/executives. And let’s not forget the public money (TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS) being spent to prop them up and maintain their bonuses/compensation during this “Greatest Recession Since the Great Depression.”[/quote]

You are not “forced to use banks in order to conduct business” these days. I doubt your financial needs are so complicated that you can’t use a credit union for all of your banking needs. Even the CEOs of credit unions don’t make much money. Trust me, I’ve seen the stats. So, you should bank with a credit union if that’s where your conscience lies. Then you won’t be accused of hypocrisy by both maligning overpaid bankers while patronizing their businesses at the same time.

[quote=CA renter]
Bottom line, we are ALL forced to pay for things we don’t like. If I had to choose between paying bankers or public servants, the choice would be easy — public servants actually enhance our quality of life while bankers suck the blood out of the productive economy.[/quote]

I would argue that SOME public servants “suck the blood out of the productive economy” just as SOME bankers do the same. Likewise, SOME public servants do a great job relative to the compensation they receive while SOME bankers do the same. Generalizing about public servants and bankers with respect to sucking blood out of the economy is not intellectually honest.

Generally speaking, I’d say that the largest banks and largest public employees unions are, in fact, blood suckers, to use your terms. And, admittedly, the big banks are bigger blood suckers than the big unions. But once you get down to the local level, you find a lot of folks who are just trying to make a buck and do a decent job. But I think it’s very difficult to make generalizations about either group.

[Coronita]

Ok, i have to admit…This thing in this article is nitpicking…

http://signonsandiego.com/news/2010/oct/11/school-board-members-stay-connected/

Pennies in my opinion…

[Coronita]

Ok, i have to admit…This thing in this article is nitpicking…

http://signonsandiego.com/news/2010/oct/11/school-board-members-stay-connected/

Pennies in my opinion…

[Coronita]

Ok, i have to admit…This thing in this article is nitpicking…

http://signonsandiego.com/news/2010/oct/11/school-board-members-stay-connected/

Pennies in my opinion…

[Coronita]

Ok, i have to admit…This thing in this article is nitpicking…

http://signonsandiego.com/news/2010/oct/11/school-board-members-stay-connected/

Pennies in my opinion…

[Coronita]

Ok, i have to admit…This thing in this article is nitpicking…

http://signonsandiego.com/news/2010/oct/11/school-board-members-stay-connected/

Pennies in my opinion…

[CA renter]

[quote=jficquette][quote=CA renter][quote=jficquette]CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John[/quote]

Public safety personnel don’t retire at full pay, either. Mind you, public safety personnel weren’t complaining about their pensions before the pension boost, either (not anyone I’ve ever met). That was a disaster from the start, and as I’ve said many times before, it was not the boots-on-the-ground workers who were asking for it. They’re the ones taking all the flak for it now, though.

As to the “tooling around in the fire engines” how do you think firefighters get to calls? The fire station isn’t what goes on calls; the fire engines/trucks do. Firefighters are tied to the fire engines/trucks (and their zones), not the fire station.

Besides, how do you think groceries get to the fire stations when firefighters often 24+ hours at a stretch? Firefighters work 24 or even 120 hours (not an unusual overtime situation) at a time. You don’t think they should eat? Or, perhaps you think the city should hire additional workers who will keep the fire stations supplied all the time?

Just want to clarify…firefighters do not “run personal errands” while on duty. That’s absolutely not allowed. If you see them in the store, they are ON DUTY. If a call comes in, the groceries are dropped and they run to the call.[/quote]

In my mind going shopping is a personal errand. I have also seen them parked in a bank’s parking lot.

For every truck I see with lights flashing I see 10 going shopping.

If being on call is so important then they need to stay in the fire house and bring food with them when they get on shift.

A lawyer friend of mine has a son who just retired as a sherrif deputy. He is making MORE then his salary since he loaded it up with overtime before he left.

John[/quote]

It’s entirely possible they are doing inspections if you see them at a bank or other location without lights.

Ovetime does not count toward retirement in any case I’m aware of. He might have gotten a promotion or taken on some extra duties (paid separately from O/T) to boost pay. From what I understand, CalPERS is addressing this by using a longer term and averaging, rather than using “most recent year/highest pay.”

[CA renter]

[quote=jficquette][quote=CA renter][quote=jficquette]CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John[/quote]

Public safety personnel don’t retire at full pay, either. Mind you, public safety personnel weren’t complaining about their pensions before the pension boost, either (not anyone I’ve ever met). That was a disaster from the start, and as I’ve said many times before, it was not the boots-on-the-ground workers who were asking for it. They’re the ones taking all the flak for it now, though.

As to the “tooling around in the fire engines” how do you think firefighters get to calls? The fire station isn’t what goes on calls; the fire engines/trucks do. Firefighters are tied to the fire engines/trucks (and their zones), not the fire station.

Besides, how do you think groceries get to the fire stations when firefighters often 24+ hours at a stretch? Firefighters work 24 or even 120 hours (not an unusual overtime situation) at a time. You don’t think they should eat? Or, perhaps you think the city should hire additional workers who will keep the fire stations supplied all the time?

Just want to clarify…firefighters do not “run personal errands” while on duty. That’s absolutely not allowed. If you see them in the store, they are ON DUTY. If a call comes in, the groceries are dropped and they run to the call.[/quote]

In my mind going shopping is a personal errand. I have also seen them parked in a bank’s parking lot.

For every truck I see with lights flashing I see 10 going shopping.

If being on call is so important then they need to stay in the fire house and bring food with them when they get on shift.

A lawyer friend of mine has a son who just retired as a sherrif deputy. He is making MORE then his salary since he loaded it up with overtime before he left.

John[/quote]

It’s entirely possible they are doing inspections if you see them at a bank or other location without lights.

Ovetime does not count toward retirement in any case I’m aware of. He might have gotten a promotion or taken on some extra duties (paid separately from O/T) to boost pay. From what I understand, CalPERS is addressing this by using a longer term and averaging, rather than using “most recent year/highest pay.”

[CA renter]

[quote=jficquette][quote=CA renter][quote=jficquette]CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John[/quote]

Public safety personnel don’t retire at full pay, either. Mind you, public safety personnel weren’t complaining about their pensions before the pension boost, either (not anyone I’ve ever met). That was a disaster from the start, and as I’ve said many times before, it was not the boots-on-the-ground workers who were asking for it. They’re the ones taking all the flak for it now, though.

As to the “tooling around in the fire engines” how do you think firefighters get to calls? The fire station isn’t what goes on calls; the fire engines/trucks do. Firefighters are tied to the fire engines/trucks (and their zones), not the fire station.

Besides, how do you think groceries get to the fire stations when firefighters often 24+ hours at a stretch? Firefighters work 24 or even 120 hours (not an unusual overtime situation) at a time. You don’t think they should eat? Or, perhaps you think the city should hire additional workers who will keep the fire stations supplied all the time?

Just want to clarify…firefighters do not “run personal errands” while on duty. That’s absolutely not allowed. If you see them in the store, they are ON DUTY. If a call comes in, the groceries are dropped and they run to the call.[/quote]

In my mind going shopping is a personal errand. I have also seen them parked in a bank’s parking lot.

For every truck I see with lights flashing I see 10 going shopping.

If being on call is so important then they need to stay in the fire house and bring food with them when they get on shift.

A lawyer friend of mine has a son who just retired as a sherrif deputy. He is making MORE then his salary since he loaded it up with overtime before he left.

John[/quote]

It’s entirely possible they are doing inspections if you see them at a bank or other location without lights.

Ovetime does not count toward retirement in any case I’m aware of. He might have gotten a promotion or taken on some extra duties (paid separately from O/T) to boost pay. From what I understand, CalPERS is addressing this by using a longer term and averaging, rather than using “most recent year/highest pay.”

[CA renter]

[quote=jficquette][quote=CA renter][quote=jficquette]CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John[/quote]

Public safety personnel don’t retire at full pay, either. Mind you, public safety personnel weren’t complaining about their pensions before the pension boost, either (not anyone I’ve ever met). That was a disaster from the start, and as I’ve said many times before, it was not the boots-on-the-ground workers who were asking for it. They’re the ones taking all the flak for it now, though.

As to the “tooling around in the fire engines” how do you think firefighters get to calls? The fire station isn’t what goes on calls; the fire engines/trucks do. Firefighters are tied to the fire engines/trucks (and their zones), not the fire station.

Besides, how do you think groceries get to the fire stations when firefighters often 24+ hours at a stretch? Firefighters work 24 or even 120 hours (not an unusual overtime situation) at a time. You don’t think they should eat? Or, perhaps you think the city should hire additional workers who will keep the fire stations supplied all the time?

Just want to clarify…firefighters do not “run personal errands” while on duty. That’s absolutely not allowed. If you see them in the store, they are ON DUTY. If a call comes in, the groceries are dropped and they run to the call.[/quote]

In my mind going shopping is a personal errand. I have also seen them parked in a bank’s parking lot.

For every truck I see with lights flashing I see 10 going shopping.

If being on call is so important then they need to stay in the fire house and bring food with them when they get on shift.

A lawyer friend of mine has a son who just retired as a sherrif deputy. He is making MORE then his salary since he loaded it up with overtime before he left.

John[/quote]

It’s entirely possible they are doing inspections if you see them at a bank or other location without lights.

Ovetime does not count toward retirement in any case I’m aware of. He might have gotten a promotion or taken on some extra duties (paid separately from O/T) to boost pay. From what I understand, CalPERS is addressing this by using a longer term and averaging, rather than using “most recent year/highest pay.”

[CA renter]

[quote=jficquette][quote=CA renter][quote=jficquette]CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John[/quote]

Public safety personnel don’t retire at full pay, either. Mind you, public safety personnel weren’t complaining about their pensions before the pension boost, either (not anyone I’ve ever met). That was a disaster from the start, and as I’ve said many times before, it was not the boots-on-the-ground workers who were asking for it. They’re the ones taking all the flak for it now, though.

As to the “tooling around in the fire engines” how do you think firefighters get to calls? The fire station isn’t what goes on calls; the fire engines/trucks do. Firefighters are tied to the fire engines/trucks (and their zones), not the fire station.

Besides, how do you think groceries get to the fire stations when firefighters often 24+ hours at a stretch? Firefighters work 24 or even 120 hours (not an unusual overtime situation) at a time. You don’t think they should eat? Or, perhaps you think the city should hire additional workers who will keep the fire stations supplied all the time?

Just want to clarify…firefighters do not “run personal errands” while on duty. That’s absolutely not allowed. If you see them in the store, they are ON DUTY. If a call comes in, the groceries are dropped and they run to the call.[/quote]

In my mind going shopping is a personal errand. I have also seen them parked in a bank’s parking lot.

For every truck I see with lights flashing I see 10 going shopping.

If being on call is so important then they need to stay in the fire house and bring food with them when they get on shift.

A lawyer friend of mine has a son who just retired as a sherrif deputy. He is making MORE then his salary since he loaded it up with overtime before he left.

John[/quote]

It’s entirely possible they are doing inspections if you see them at a bank or other location without lights.

Ovetime does not count toward retirement in any case I’m aware of. He might have gotten a promotion or taken on some extra duties (paid separately from O/T) to boost pay. From what I understand, CalPERS is addressing this by using a longer term and averaging, rather than using “most recent year/highest pay.”

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=jficquette]
In my mind going shopping is a personal errand. I have also seen them parked in a bank’s parking lot.

For every truck I see with lights flashing I see 10 going shopping.

If being on call is so important then they need to stay in the fire house and bring food with them when they get on shift.
[/quote]

John, I don’t think you read CAR’s post above completely. Firemen do spend up to 24hrs at a stretch in the firehouse, and they cook/eat as a team, using the kitchen in the firehouse to do so. Therefore, they provision accordingly, which means shopping, which means they bring the fire truck shopping. I’m not sure what point you’re making here, or if you’re just nit-picking. It makes perfect sense and it isn’t a waste of taxpayer dollars, given their operating requirements.

Out of curiosity, have ever served in the military or law enforcement, and have you participated in a team sport? Like I said, just curious.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=jficquette]
In my mind going shopping is a personal errand. I have also seen them parked in a bank’s parking lot.

For every truck I see with lights flashing I see 10 going shopping.

If being on call is so important then they need to stay in the fire house and bring food with them when they get on shift.
[/quote]

John, I don’t think you read CAR’s post above completely. Firemen do spend up to 24hrs at a stretch in the firehouse, and they cook/eat as a team, using the kitchen in the firehouse to do so. Therefore, they provision accordingly, which means shopping, which means they bring the fire truck shopping. I’m not sure what point you’re making here, or if you’re just nit-picking. It makes perfect sense and it isn’t a waste of taxpayer dollars, given their operating requirements.

Out of curiosity, have ever served in the military or law enforcement, and have you participated in a team sport? Like I said, just curious.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=jficquette]
In my mind going shopping is a personal errand. I have also seen them parked in a bank’s parking lot.

For every truck I see with lights flashing I see 10 going shopping.

If being on call is so important then they need to stay in the fire house and bring food with them when they get on shift.
[/quote]

John, I don’t think you read CAR’s post above completely. Firemen do spend up to 24hrs at a stretch in the firehouse, and they cook/eat as a team, using the kitchen in the firehouse to do so. Therefore, they provision accordingly, which means shopping, which means they bring the fire truck shopping. I’m not sure what point you’re making here, or if you’re just nit-picking. It makes perfect sense and it isn’t a waste of taxpayer dollars, given their operating requirements.

Out of curiosity, have ever served in the military or law enforcement, and have you participated in a team sport? Like I said, just curious.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=jficquette]
In my mind going shopping is a personal errand. I have also seen them parked in a bank’s parking lot.

For every truck I see with lights flashing I see 10 going shopping.

If being on call is so important then they need to stay in the fire house and bring food with them when they get on shift.
[/quote]

John, I don’t think you read CAR’s post above completely. Firemen do spend up to 24hrs at a stretch in the firehouse, and they cook/eat as a team, using the kitchen in the firehouse to do so. Therefore, they provision accordingly, which means shopping, which means they bring the fire truck shopping. I’m not sure what point you’re making here, or if you’re just nit-picking. It makes perfect sense and it isn’t a waste of taxpayer dollars, given their operating requirements.

Out of curiosity, have ever served in the military or law enforcement, and have you participated in a team sport? Like I said, just curious.

[Author]

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