OT: Public pay & benefits

[jpinpb]

faterikcartman – I think a public sector employee certainly did have the ability to go out in the private sector to make money.

Many people were getting a real estate license and selling. I remember hearing how the amount of licenses issued had increased greatly in California during the bubble. Do you suppose this happened b/c there was money to be made?

Why do you think money wasn’t made in the bubble? Perhaps you didn’t hear the Giant Pool of Money. It is worth a listen.

They discuss the story of the bubble and crisis and one guy, Mike Gardner – man who got into the mortgage industry after getting hired away from his previous job as a bartender.

An area sales manager named Glenn at WMC Mortgage made 75 to 100k a MONTH. Over a million a year. I do not think these are exceptions. It was common.

I’m glad you brought up the military. I’m not sure what the income is for military, but they do have benefits, medical, dental, housing, food. And from what I understand, if you stay on for 20 years, you get a pension, also.

The military offers these incentives b/c otherwise they might have difficulty getting people to sign on. They offer to pay for education. Many people take advantange of that, as well

Some of the cops that I know had served in the military. They said the psych requirements were much lower in the military than SDPD.

Lastly, ever hear of Blackwater? They’re private and the mercenaries are making much more than our public military.

And yes, now that our unemployment numbers are so high, certainly more people turn to public service. And the list is long b/c right now the City does not have the money to hire anyone. During the bubble, the City had a hard time keeping positions filled – and that’s even w/the lure of benefits.

[jstoesz]

My parents did the same for myself and my brother and sister and we were most definitely not rich. I didn’t even know what a gardener was until I moved to southern california…everyone must be rich here…

CAR,
You do have a point about the self limiting nature of private schools. None of the schools we went to growing up had entrance exams, and all of them had half the per capita spending of the public schools.

But private schools have one important filter, Private schools tend to have parents that care. That kind of environment is worth every penny.

[jstoesz]

My parents did the same for myself and my brother and sister and we were most definitely not rich. I didn’t even know what a gardener was until I moved to southern california…everyone must be rich here…

CAR,
You do have a point about the self limiting nature of private schools. None of the schools we went to growing up had entrance exams, and all of them had half the per capita spending of the public schools.

But private schools have one important filter, Private schools tend to have parents that care. That kind of environment is worth every penny.

[jstoesz]

My parents did the same for myself and my brother and sister and we were most definitely not rich. I didn’t even know what a gardener was until I moved to southern california…everyone must be rich here…

CAR,
You do have a point about the self limiting nature of private schools. None of the schools we went to growing up had entrance exams, and all of them had half the per capita spending of the public schools.

But private schools have one important filter, Private schools tend to have parents that care. That kind of environment is worth every penny.

[jstoesz]

My parents did the same for myself and my brother and sister and we were most definitely not rich. I didn’t even know what a gardener was until I moved to southern california…everyone must be rich here…

CAR,
You do have a point about the self limiting nature of private schools. None of the schools we went to growing up had entrance exams, and all of them had half the per capita spending of the public schools.

But private schools have one important filter, Private schools tend to have parents that care. That kind of environment is worth every penny.

[jstoesz]

My parents did the same for myself and my brother and sister and we were most definitely not rich. I didn’t even know what a gardener was until I moved to southern california…everyone must be rich here…

CAR,
You do have a point about the self limiting nature of private schools. None of the schools we went to growing up had entrance exams, and all of them had half the per capita spending of the public schools.

But private schools have one important filter, Private schools tend to have parents that care. That kind of environment is worth every penny.

[jficquette]

[quote=pri_dk]Most firefighters retiring today with 20 years service are getting pensions of much more than $50K annually. No matter how you calculate it, these guys are getting packages that are worth way north of $1 million.

(BTW, the fact that interest rates are low means that the government/taxpayers will have to foot even *more* money than they would if rates of return were higher.)

Of course they are doing it for the pensions. How many people would not take a job that comes with a “bonus” of more than a million dollars after just 20 years of service?

Sure, lots of people make big money, but here’s why it’s different for government employees:

It is not uncommon to live to be 90 years old – many state employees will start collecting pensions at 50 and receive payments for 40 years. (The average is probably close to 30 years.)

With the current shortfalls in pension funding, it will take decades of taxes to pay the bill for the services we are receiving right now.

Our children, or grandchildren, will get their first job decades from now, and part of their state income taxes will be used to pay the bill for the fire/rescue/whatever that we read about in yesterday’s headlines.

Should children who aren’t even born yet be be burdened with paying for services that were provided last year?[/quote]

Probably more like 100+ in age. Any one retiring today at 55 and alive at 85 will not have to deal with cancer, heart disease or diabetes.

They should cap the amount they pay out but they can’t? Why? because if they did everyone would see how much these people are going to make. Now it’s nebulous and people can’t focus on it.

[jficquette]

[quote=pri_dk]Most firefighters retiring today with 20 years service are getting pensions of much more than $50K annually. No matter how you calculate it, these guys are getting packages that are worth way north of $1 million.

(BTW, the fact that interest rates are low means that the government/taxpayers will have to foot even *more* money than they would if rates of return were higher.)

Of course they are doing it for the pensions. How many people would not take a job that comes with a “bonus” of more than a million dollars after just 20 years of service?

Sure, lots of people make big money, but here’s why it’s different for government employees:

It is not uncommon to live to be 90 years old – many state employees will start collecting pensions at 50 and receive payments for 40 years. (The average is probably close to 30 years.)

With the current shortfalls in pension funding, it will take decades of taxes to pay the bill for the services we are receiving right now.

Our children, or grandchildren, will get their first job decades from now, and part of their state income taxes will be used to pay the bill for the fire/rescue/whatever that we read about in yesterday’s headlines.

Should children who aren’t even born yet be be burdened with paying for services that were provided last year?[/quote]

Probably more like 100+ in age. Any one retiring today at 55 and alive at 85 will not have to deal with cancer, heart disease or diabetes.

They should cap the amount they pay out but they can’t? Why? because if they did everyone would see how much these people are going to make. Now it’s nebulous and people can’t focus on it.

[jficquette]

[quote=pri_dk]Most firefighters retiring today with 20 years service are getting pensions of much more than $50K annually. No matter how you calculate it, these guys are getting packages that are worth way north of $1 million.

(BTW, the fact that interest rates are low means that the government/taxpayers will have to foot even *more* money than they would if rates of return were higher.)

Of course they are doing it for the pensions. How many people would not take a job that comes with a “bonus” of more than a million dollars after just 20 years of service?

Sure, lots of people make big money, but here’s why it’s different for government employees:

It is not uncommon to live to be 90 years old – many state employees will start collecting pensions at 50 and receive payments for 40 years. (The average is probably close to 30 years.)

With the current shortfalls in pension funding, it will take decades of taxes to pay the bill for the services we are receiving right now.

Our children, or grandchildren, will get their first job decades from now, and part of their state income taxes will be used to pay the bill for the fire/rescue/whatever that we read about in yesterday’s headlines.

Should children who aren’t even born yet be be burdened with paying for services that were provided last year?[/quote]

Probably more like 100+ in age. Any one retiring today at 55 and alive at 85 will not have to deal with cancer, heart disease or diabetes.

They should cap the amount they pay out but they can’t? Why? because if they did everyone would see how much these people are going to make. Now it’s nebulous and people can’t focus on it.

[jficquette]

[quote=pri_dk]Most firefighters retiring today with 20 years service are getting pensions of much more than $50K annually. No matter how you calculate it, these guys are getting packages that are worth way north of $1 million.

(BTW, the fact that interest rates are low means that the government/taxpayers will have to foot even *more* money than they would if rates of return were higher.)

Of course they are doing it for the pensions. How many people would not take a job that comes with a “bonus” of more than a million dollars after just 20 years of service?

Sure, lots of people make big money, but here’s why it’s different for government employees:

It is not uncommon to live to be 90 years old – many state employees will start collecting pensions at 50 and receive payments for 40 years. (The average is probably close to 30 years.)

With the current shortfalls in pension funding, it will take decades of taxes to pay the bill for the services we are receiving right now.

Our children, or grandchildren, will get their first job decades from now, and part of their state income taxes will be used to pay the bill for the fire/rescue/whatever that we read about in yesterday’s headlines.

Should children who aren’t even born yet be be burdened with paying for services that were provided last year?[/quote]

Probably more like 100+ in age. Any one retiring today at 55 and alive at 85 will not have to deal with cancer, heart disease or diabetes.

They should cap the amount they pay out but they can’t? Why? because if they did everyone would see how much these people are going to make. Now it’s nebulous and people can’t focus on it.

[jficquette]

[quote=pri_dk]Most firefighters retiring today with 20 years service are getting pensions of much more than $50K annually. No matter how you calculate it, these guys are getting packages that are worth way north of $1 million.

(BTW, the fact that interest rates are low means that the government/taxpayers will have to foot even *more* money than they would if rates of return were higher.)

Of course they are doing it for the pensions. How many people would not take a job that comes with a “bonus” of more than a million dollars after just 20 years of service?

Sure, lots of people make big money, but here’s why it’s different for government employees:

It is not uncommon to live to be 90 years old – many state employees will start collecting pensions at 50 and receive payments for 40 years. (The average is probably close to 30 years.)

With the current shortfalls in pension funding, it will take decades of taxes to pay the bill for the services we are receiving right now.

Our children, or grandchildren, will get their first job decades from now, and part of their state income taxes will be used to pay the bill for the fire/rescue/whatever that we read about in yesterday’s headlines.

Should children who aren’t even born yet be be burdened with paying for services that were provided last year?[/quote]

Probably more like 100+ in age. Any one retiring today at 55 and alive at 85 will not have to deal with cancer, heart disease or diabetes.

They should cap the amount they pay out but they can’t? Why? because if they did everyone would see how much these people are going to make. Now it’s nebulous and people can’t focus on it.

[CA renter]

As for whether or not private industry is cheaper than govt, let’s look at military pay.

Private:

PMC Company News:

• NEW! U.S. increases spending on contractors in Iraq

• NEW! Contractors US Spy Ops..

• FREE Sec. Co. Contact List…

• Resume Templates…
• PMC Assessment…

PMC COMPANIES:

At Blackwater USA’s training camp, private security contractors train for their arduous jobs in Iraq, where they serve on security teams, protecting and preserving not only the peace but Diplomats and VIP’s, and even assisting in protecting the military’s supply lines.

The pay for PMC’s in dangerous places like Iraq is generous. Experienced people can make $500-750 a day. But it’s not all for the money, for many its a new career path that has a sense of duty for country while helping to assist in building a new democracy. After the first Gulf War the US military went through a massive Reduction in Force, sharply reducing our forces, leaving hundreds of thousands of soldiers without employment. Many of them went on to work for the FBI, CIA, DEA, Border Patrol, etc.; others joined police departments, went into security and many started their own companies, doing what they knew best: providing security or training others to do the same.
SALARIES: (High Approx.)

PMC Agents: $150,000.00 per year (tax free.)
PMC Senior Agents: $175,000.00 per year.
PMC Asst Detail Leader: $200,000.00 per year.
PMC Detail Leader: $250,000.00 per year.

http://www.unitedpmc.com/companies.htm

——————–

Govt pay scale:

For officers:

1) Basic pay for an O-7 to O-10 is limited by Level II of the Executive Schedule which is $14,975.10. Basic pay for O-6 and below is limited by Level V of the Executive Schedule which is $12,141.60.

2) While serving as Chairman, Joint Chief/Vice Chairman, Joint Chief of Staff, Chief of Navy Operations, Commandant of the Marine Corps, Army/Air Force Chief of Staff, Commander of a unified or specified combatant command, basic pay is $19,983.60 (See note 1 above).

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

————————

Mind you, those top numbers for the govt are the **very top** positions. The private guys who have nowhere near the same experience, knowledge, or responsibility make more than the govt employees do (but probably get fewer benefits).

BTW, the military does not have people lining up to join, either. That’s one of the reasons the govt is using private contractors — and paying the price. They are trying to avoid a draft.

[CA renter]

As for whether or not private industry is cheaper than govt, let’s look at military pay.

Private:

PMC Company News:

• NEW! U.S. increases spending on contractors in Iraq

• NEW! Contractors US Spy Ops..

• FREE Sec. Co. Contact List…

• Resume Templates…
• PMC Assessment…

PMC COMPANIES:

At Blackwater USA’s training camp, private security contractors train for their arduous jobs in Iraq, where they serve on security teams, protecting and preserving not only the peace but Diplomats and VIP’s, and even assisting in protecting the military’s supply lines.

The pay for PMC’s in dangerous places like Iraq is generous. Experienced people can make $500-750 a day. But it’s not all for the money, for many its a new career path that has a sense of duty for country while helping to assist in building a new democracy. After the first Gulf War the US military went through a massive Reduction in Force, sharply reducing our forces, leaving hundreds of thousands of soldiers without employment. Many of them went on to work for the FBI, CIA, DEA, Border Patrol, etc.; others joined police departments, went into security and many started their own companies, doing what they knew best: providing security or training others to do the same.
SALARIES: (High Approx.)

PMC Agents: $150,000.00 per year (tax free.)
PMC Senior Agents: $175,000.00 per year.
PMC Asst Detail Leader: $200,000.00 per year.
PMC Detail Leader: $250,000.00 per year.

http://www.unitedpmc.com/companies.htm

——————–

Govt pay scale:

For officers:

1) Basic pay for an O-7 to O-10 is limited by Level II of the Executive Schedule which is $14,975.10. Basic pay for O-6 and below is limited by Level V of the Executive Schedule which is $12,141.60.

2) While serving as Chairman, Joint Chief/Vice Chairman, Joint Chief of Staff, Chief of Navy Operations, Commandant of the Marine Corps, Army/Air Force Chief of Staff, Commander of a unified or specified combatant command, basic pay is $19,983.60 (See note 1 above).

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

————————

Mind you, those top numbers for the govt are the **very top** positions. The private guys who have nowhere near the same experience, knowledge, or responsibility make more than the govt employees do (but probably get fewer benefits).

BTW, the military does not have people lining up to join, either. That’s one of the reasons the govt is using private contractors — and paying the price. They are trying to avoid a draft.

[CA renter]

As for whether or not private industry is cheaper than govt, let’s look at military pay.

Private:

PMC Company News:

• NEW! U.S. increases spending on contractors in Iraq

• NEW! Contractors US Spy Ops..

• FREE Sec. Co. Contact List…

• Resume Templates…
• PMC Assessment…

PMC COMPANIES:

At Blackwater USA’s training camp, private security contractors train for their arduous jobs in Iraq, where they serve on security teams, protecting and preserving not only the peace but Diplomats and VIP’s, and even assisting in protecting the military’s supply lines.

The pay for PMC’s in dangerous places like Iraq is generous. Experienced people can make $500-750 a day. But it’s not all for the money, for many its a new career path that has a sense of duty for country while helping to assist in building a new democracy. After the first Gulf War the US military went through a massive Reduction in Force, sharply reducing our forces, leaving hundreds of thousands of soldiers without employment. Many of them went on to work for the FBI, CIA, DEA, Border Patrol, etc.; others joined police departments, went into security and many started their own companies, doing what they knew best: providing security or training others to do the same.
SALARIES: (High Approx.)

PMC Agents: $150,000.00 per year (tax free.)
PMC Senior Agents: $175,000.00 per year.
PMC Asst Detail Leader: $200,000.00 per year.
PMC Detail Leader: $250,000.00 per year.

http://www.unitedpmc.com/companies.htm

——————–

Govt pay scale:

For officers:

1) Basic pay for an O-7 to O-10 is limited by Level II of the Executive Schedule which is $14,975.10. Basic pay for O-6 and below is limited by Level V of the Executive Schedule which is $12,141.60.

2) While serving as Chairman, Joint Chief/Vice Chairman, Joint Chief of Staff, Chief of Navy Operations, Commandant of the Marine Corps, Army/Air Force Chief of Staff, Commander of a unified or specified combatant command, basic pay is $19,983.60 (See note 1 above).

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

————————

Mind you, those top numbers for the govt are the **very top** positions. The private guys who have nowhere near the same experience, knowledge, or responsibility make more than the govt employees do (but probably get fewer benefits).

BTW, the military does not have people lining up to join, either. That’s one of the reasons the govt is using private contractors — and paying the price. They are trying to avoid a draft.

[CA renter]

As for whether or not private industry is cheaper than govt, let’s look at military pay.

Private:

PMC Company News:

• NEW! U.S. increases spending on contractors in Iraq

• NEW! Contractors US Spy Ops..

• FREE Sec. Co. Contact List…

• Resume Templates…
• PMC Assessment…

PMC COMPANIES:

At Blackwater USA’s training camp, private security contractors train for their arduous jobs in Iraq, where they serve on security teams, protecting and preserving not only the peace but Diplomats and VIP’s, and even assisting in protecting the military’s supply lines.

The pay for PMC’s in dangerous places like Iraq is generous. Experienced people can make $500-750 a day. But it’s not all for the money, for many its a new career path that has a sense of duty for country while helping to assist in building a new democracy. After the first Gulf War the US military went through a massive Reduction in Force, sharply reducing our forces, leaving hundreds of thousands of soldiers without employment. Many of them went on to work for the FBI, CIA, DEA, Border Patrol, etc.; others joined police departments, went into security and many started their own companies, doing what they knew best: providing security or training others to do the same.
SALARIES: (High Approx.)

PMC Agents: $150,000.00 per year (tax free.)
PMC Senior Agents: $175,000.00 per year.
PMC Asst Detail Leader: $200,000.00 per year.
PMC Detail Leader: $250,000.00 per year.

http://www.unitedpmc.com/companies.htm

——————–

Govt pay scale:

For officers:

1) Basic pay for an O-7 to O-10 is limited by Level II of the Executive Schedule which is $14,975.10. Basic pay for O-6 and below is limited by Level V of the Executive Schedule which is $12,141.60.

2) While serving as Chairman, Joint Chief/Vice Chairman, Joint Chief of Staff, Chief of Navy Operations, Commandant of the Marine Corps, Army/Air Force Chief of Staff, Commander of a unified or specified combatant command, basic pay is $19,983.60 (See note 1 above).

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

————————

Mind you, those top numbers for the govt are the **very top** positions. The private guys who have nowhere near the same experience, knowledge, or responsibility make more than the govt employees do (but probably get fewer benefits).

BTW, the military does not have people lining up to join, either. That’s one of the reasons the govt is using private contractors — and paying the price. They are trying to avoid a draft.

[Author]

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