OT: Public pay & benefits

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sdrealtor]JP
As always you greatly overestimate the money people made in RE during the bubble. The real money was made by people who sold homes and are now whining on the sidelines that prices havent corrected enough.

As for the base salaries that is exactly my point. They dont make base salaries they make gross earnings with exorbitant benefits that similar folks in the private sector dont enjoy.

Lastly, cops are different and I dont see folks clamoring for or complaining about their jobs or earnings. The good ones have tough jobs and should be paid for what they have to deal with. While I dont know as much about what they make I would be far less likely to quibble over it. Fireman are another matter entirely[/quote]

Sdr: You make a good point regarding base salaries. I happen to know cops on some of the major metro California forces (SDPD/SDSO, SFPD and LAPD) and their gross earnings are significantly higher than the base salary, and largely due to overtime. One of the cops actually turned down a move from SWAT to detective Robbery/Homicide because of the big drop in pay due to way less overtime as a detective. Working as a SWAT team leader, this guy was making six figures a year, with a large chunk of that coming in overtime pay. He was also former Marine Recon, so I don’t think being a detective appealed to him for other reasons as well.

[sdrealtor]

As for the idea that everyone want to be a fireman because of the pension, I think you are on the right track. However, if everyone saw the actual net earnings they bring home there would be a hell of a lot more “everyone’s”.

[sdrealtor]

As for the idea that everyone want to be a fireman because of the pension, I think you are on the right track. However, if everyone saw the actual net earnings they bring home there would be a hell of a lot more “everyone’s”.

[sdrealtor]

As for the idea that everyone want to be a fireman because of the pension, I think you are on the right track. However, if everyone saw the actual net earnings they bring home there would be a hell of a lot more “everyone’s”.

[sdrealtor]

As for the idea that everyone want to be a fireman because of the pension, I think you are on the right track. However, if everyone saw the actual net earnings they bring home there would be a hell of a lot more “everyone’s”.

[sdrealtor]

As for the idea that everyone want to be a fireman because of the pension, I think you are on the right track. However, if everyone saw the actual net earnings they bring home there would be a hell of a lot more “everyone’s”.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=pri_dk]
Since the government is operating with a huge deficit, why would we ever choose to pay more than we have to for anything?[/quote]

Pri: In California, the politicians have been “buying” votes for years with ever more generous pay/compensation packages for state workers, including teachers, police/fire/corrections and city/state employees.

Look at the power that the CCPOA (California Correctional Peace Officers Assn) and CTA (California Teachers Assn) wield in Sacramento and you’ll get a taste of what a true mess we’re in. There are prison guards making $150k a year, plus bennies. Yeah, this is a dangerous job, but it ain’t $150k a year dangerous. There was outrage locally when we found out we had three bus drivers making over $65k a year for part-time driving duties.

Its gotten well beyond stupid in California; its literally breaking the bank.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=pri_dk]
Since the government is operating with a huge deficit, why would we ever choose to pay more than we have to for anything?[/quote]

Pri: In California, the politicians have been “buying” votes for years with ever more generous pay/compensation packages for state workers, including teachers, police/fire/corrections and city/state employees.

Look at the power that the CCPOA (California Correctional Peace Officers Assn) and CTA (California Teachers Assn) wield in Sacramento and you’ll get a taste of what a true mess we’re in. There are prison guards making $150k a year, plus bennies. Yeah, this is a dangerous job, but it ain’t $150k a year dangerous. There was outrage locally when we found out we had three bus drivers making over $65k a year for part-time driving duties.

Its gotten well beyond stupid in California; its literally breaking the bank.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=pri_dk]
Since the government is operating with a huge deficit, why would we ever choose to pay more than we have to for anything?[/quote]

Pri: In California, the politicians have been “buying” votes for years with ever more generous pay/compensation packages for state workers, including teachers, police/fire/corrections and city/state employees.

Look at the power that the CCPOA (California Correctional Peace Officers Assn) and CTA (California Teachers Assn) wield in Sacramento and you’ll get a taste of what a true mess we’re in. There are prison guards making $150k a year, plus bennies. Yeah, this is a dangerous job, but it ain’t $150k a year dangerous. There was outrage locally when we found out we had three bus drivers making over $65k a year for part-time driving duties.

Its gotten well beyond stupid in California; its literally breaking the bank.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=pri_dk]
Since the government is operating with a huge deficit, why would we ever choose to pay more than we have to for anything?[/quote]

Pri: In California, the politicians have been “buying” votes for years with ever more generous pay/compensation packages for state workers, including teachers, police/fire/corrections and city/state employees.

Look at the power that the CCPOA (California Correctional Peace Officers Assn) and CTA (California Teachers Assn) wield in Sacramento and you’ll get a taste of what a true mess we’re in. There are prison guards making $150k a year, plus bennies. Yeah, this is a dangerous job, but it ain’t $150k a year dangerous. There was outrage locally when we found out we had three bus drivers making over $65k a year for part-time driving duties.

Its gotten well beyond stupid in California; its literally breaking the bank.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=pri_dk]
Since the government is operating with a huge deficit, why would we ever choose to pay more than we have to for anything?[/quote]

Pri: In California, the politicians have been “buying” votes for years with ever more generous pay/compensation packages for state workers, including teachers, police/fire/corrections and city/state employees.

Look at the power that the CCPOA (California Correctional Peace Officers Assn) and CTA (California Teachers Assn) wield in Sacramento and you’ll get a taste of what a true mess we’re in. There are prison guards making $150k a year, plus bennies. Yeah, this is a dangerous job, but it ain’t $150k a year dangerous. There was outrage locally when we found out we had three bus drivers making over $65k a year for part-time driving duties.

Its gotten well beyond stupid in California; its literally breaking the bank.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pri_dk]
What most of us are saying is that much or their compensation is in other “hidden” forms, such as access to liberal overtime policies and extremely generous pensions. [/quote]

They often have to work overtime. Doesn’t mean they WANT to. That comes w/the job, like it or not. I’m sure many would rather go surf or do whatever hobby it is a normal person does. They do not have that option. Forced working overtime is not a plus or benefit. They don’t have a choice. Well, I suppose they can quit or get fired. But they can’t just say, “No, I don’t want to work overtime to put out that fire or take down some criminals or find a rape suspect.” They have to sacrifice personal enjoyment to work. How the hell is that a benefit? Great if you don’t want to have a life.

[quote=pri_dk]
We are also saying that the curve is incredibly steep – their compensation grows *much* faster than comparable professions, and after just twenty years many firefighters get a retirement package that essentially makes them multi-millionaires. [/quote]

I wouldn’t say the average fireman retires a multi-millionaire. That’s a stretch.

[quote=pri_dk]
But the MAIN point of what we are saying is that firefighter salaries seem to be exempt from the basic laws of supply and demand. It’s very simple:

Any job with backlog of applicants and a two-year waiting list pays more than the job requirements demand. [/quote]

Again, this waiting list is probably so b/c of the fact there is a pension.

Heck, at this point I’m thinking people want to sign up b/c of the lies about what a great job it is. But as I said, how many of these people would want to do that job w/out the pension benefit? Take away the benefits and how many would stay when they can double their income doing a bubble job? Something tells me that long list of people wanting to sign up would shrink. And something tells me that the first bubble that comes along, they would have quite a few vacancies to fill were it not for a pension dangling over their heads.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pri_dk]
What most of us are saying is that much or their compensation is in other “hidden” forms, such as access to liberal overtime policies and extremely generous pensions. [/quote]

They often have to work overtime. Doesn’t mean they WANT to. That comes w/the job, like it or not. I’m sure many would rather go surf or do whatever hobby it is a normal person does. They do not have that option. Forced working overtime is not a plus or benefit. They don’t have a choice. Well, I suppose they can quit or get fired. But they can’t just say, “No, I don’t want to work overtime to put out that fire or take down some criminals or find a rape suspect.” They have to sacrifice personal enjoyment to work. How the hell is that a benefit? Great if you don’t want to have a life.

[quote=pri_dk]
We are also saying that the curve is incredibly steep – their compensation grows *much* faster than comparable professions, and after just twenty years many firefighters get a retirement package that essentially makes them multi-millionaires. [/quote]

I wouldn’t say the average fireman retires a multi-millionaire. That’s a stretch.

[quote=pri_dk]
But the MAIN point of what we are saying is that firefighter salaries seem to be exempt from the basic laws of supply and demand. It’s very simple:

Any job with backlog of applicants and a two-year waiting list pays more than the job requirements demand. [/quote]

Again, this waiting list is probably so b/c of the fact there is a pension.

Heck, at this point I’m thinking people want to sign up b/c of the lies about what a great job it is. But as I said, how many of these people would want to do that job w/out the pension benefit? Take away the benefits and how many would stay when they can double their income doing a bubble job? Something tells me that long list of people wanting to sign up would shrink. And something tells me that the first bubble that comes along, they would have quite a few vacancies to fill were it not for a pension dangling over their heads.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pri_dk]
What most of us are saying is that much or their compensation is in other “hidden” forms, such as access to liberal overtime policies and extremely generous pensions. [/quote]

They often have to work overtime. Doesn’t mean they WANT to. That comes w/the job, like it or not. I’m sure many would rather go surf or do whatever hobby it is a normal person does. They do not have that option. Forced working overtime is not a plus or benefit. They don’t have a choice. Well, I suppose they can quit or get fired. But they can’t just say, “No, I don’t want to work overtime to put out that fire or take down some criminals or find a rape suspect.” They have to sacrifice personal enjoyment to work. How the hell is that a benefit? Great if you don’t want to have a life.

[quote=pri_dk]
We are also saying that the curve is incredibly steep – their compensation grows *much* faster than comparable professions, and after just twenty years many firefighters get a retirement package that essentially makes them multi-millionaires. [/quote]

I wouldn’t say the average fireman retires a multi-millionaire. That’s a stretch.

[quote=pri_dk]
But the MAIN point of what we are saying is that firefighter salaries seem to be exempt from the basic laws of supply and demand. It’s very simple:

Any job with backlog of applicants and a two-year waiting list pays more than the job requirements demand. [/quote]

Again, this waiting list is probably so b/c of the fact there is a pension.

Heck, at this point I’m thinking people want to sign up b/c of the lies about what a great job it is. But as I said, how many of these people would want to do that job w/out the pension benefit? Take away the benefits and how many would stay when they can double their income doing a bubble job? Something tells me that long list of people wanting to sign up would shrink. And something tells me that the first bubble that comes along, they would have quite a few vacancies to fill were it not for a pension dangling over their heads.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pri_dk]
What most of us are saying is that much or their compensation is in other “hidden” forms, such as access to liberal overtime policies and extremely generous pensions. [/quote]

They often have to work overtime. Doesn’t mean they WANT to. That comes w/the job, like it or not. I’m sure many would rather go surf or do whatever hobby it is a normal person does. They do not have that option. Forced working overtime is not a plus or benefit. They don’t have a choice. Well, I suppose they can quit or get fired. But they can’t just say, “No, I don’t want to work overtime to put out that fire or take down some criminals or find a rape suspect.” They have to sacrifice personal enjoyment to work. How the hell is that a benefit? Great if you don’t want to have a life.

[quote=pri_dk]
We are also saying that the curve is incredibly steep – their compensation grows *much* faster than comparable professions, and after just twenty years many firefighters get a retirement package that essentially makes them multi-millionaires. [/quote]

I wouldn’t say the average fireman retires a multi-millionaire. That’s a stretch.

[quote=pri_dk]
But the MAIN point of what we are saying is that firefighter salaries seem to be exempt from the basic laws of supply and demand. It’s very simple:

Any job with backlog of applicants and a two-year waiting list pays more than the job requirements demand. [/quote]

Again, this waiting list is probably so b/c of the fact there is a pension.

Heck, at this point I’m thinking people want to sign up b/c of the lies about what a great job it is. But as I said, how many of these people would want to do that job w/out the pension benefit? Take away the benefits and how many would stay when they can double their income doing a bubble job? Something tells me that long list of people wanting to sign up would shrink. And something tells me that the first bubble that comes along, they would have quite a few vacancies to fill were it not for a pension dangling over their heads.

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