OT: Public pay & benefits

[CA renter]

[quote=flu][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.[/quote]

flu,

Please read my earlier post about what **is** happening WRT public safety employees — and what will probably come to pass in one form or another.

I don’t know of a single fire or police department that gave their employees net raises — they might have given them a “raise” but it was offset by the employees’ having to pay more or all of their contributions to their retirement plans, etc.

Many departments across the state, and probably around the country, have had cuts in both pay and benefits. Not sure where the stories about all these raises are coming from. People who are actually in these positions are not seeing it.

Just adding some info…

‘Labor-friendly’ CalPERS rejects labor plea

———————

What CalPERS pays out annually (approximately):

“CalPERS is the largest public pension system in the United States with a total fund market value of approximately $180 billion and annual payout obligations of over $10 billion to California pensioners.”

http://www.calpers-governance.org/docs-sof/marketinitiatives/initiatives/2009-07-14-senate-reed-testimony-regulating-hedge-funds.pdf

What California spends on illegal immigrants (probably on the low side, because it’s difficult to quantify since we have laws that prevent public agencies from determining immigration status):

“There also are other taxpayer costs — especially through local governments — but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2/3
——————

If illegal immigration were fixed, public services (and public servants’ pensions) could be greatly reduced because illegal immigrants consume a significant portion of these public services (schools, hospitals, prisons/law enforcement, financial aid, etc.).

[jstoesz]

[quote]**VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THEIR JOBS,**[/quote]

I think this is where I and most people on this thread vehemently disagree with you.

I know quite a few firemen. I lived with a helicopter crew in the backwoods Idaho (5 of them died in a helicopter crash), my brother in-law is a SD fireman, another friend is a hotshot in the tahoe area, another good fiend is a firehouse medic in mammoth, my mentor growing up was a CO fireman.

So again I know a lot of firemen. And most of these guys are not some sort of physical or mental phenoms. Some even fail some pretty basic responsibility and common sense tests (for anyone reading who knows me, some are really smart and anal to the point of psychosis). But if you ask them about their work, They will freely admit they are riding the gravy train.

So CAR, I am sorry if you disagree, but your assertion that firemen are hard to come by does not shake out. It is a great job, with lots of rewards, and it is highly compensated. Is it a good job for family men, maybe not. Is it a good job for people who like 9-5 monday through friday, probably not. But are there people who can make it work for their families, and like LARGE chunks of time off…most definitely.

CAR, what is your relation to fire?

Flu,

Fact is, we are spending more per pupil in education then we ever have…and we are giving an arguably teaching our kids less. We should be able to demand more for less, because once upon a time, we got it.

The politicians will hold the firemen and teachers over our heads so they can punish us into giving them more money to delay reforms which make their head hurt. What more can we do, but vote them out and call their bluff.

[jstoesz]

[quote]**VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THEIR JOBS,**[/quote]

I think this is where I and most people on this thread vehemently disagree with you.

I know quite a few firemen. I lived with a helicopter crew in the backwoods Idaho (5 of them died in a helicopter crash), my brother in-law is a SD fireman, another friend is a hotshot in the tahoe area, another good fiend is a firehouse medic in mammoth, my mentor growing up was a CO fireman.

So again I know a lot of firemen. And most of these guys are not some sort of physical or mental phenoms. Some even fail some pretty basic responsibility and common sense tests (for anyone reading who knows me, some are really smart and anal to the point of psychosis). But if you ask them about their work, They will freely admit they are riding the gravy train.

So CAR, I am sorry if you disagree, but your assertion that firemen are hard to come by does not shake out. It is a great job, with lots of rewards, and it is highly compensated. Is it a good job for family men, maybe not. Is it a good job for people who like 9-5 monday through friday, probably not. But are there people who can make it work for their families, and like LARGE chunks of time off…most definitely.

CAR, what is your relation to fire?

Flu,

Fact is, we are spending more per pupil in education then we ever have…and we are giving an arguably teaching our kids less. We should be able to demand more for less, because once upon a time, we got it.

The politicians will hold the firemen and teachers over our heads so they can punish us into giving them more money to delay reforms which make their head hurt. What more can we do, but vote them out and call their bluff.

[jstoesz]

[quote]**VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THEIR JOBS,**[/quote]

I think this is where I and most people on this thread vehemently disagree with you.

I know quite a few firemen. I lived with a helicopter crew in the backwoods Idaho (5 of them died in a helicopter crash), my brother in-law is a SD fireman, another friend is a hotshot in the tahoe area, another good fiend is a firehouse medic in mammoth, my mentor growing up was a CO fireman.

So again I know a lot of firemen. And most of these guys are not some sort of physical or mental phenoms. Some even fail some pretty basic responsibility and common sense tests (for anyone reading who knows me, some are really smart and anal to the point of psychosis). But if you ask them about their work, They will freely admit they are riding the gravy train.

So CAR, I am sorry if you disagree, but your assertion that firemen are hard to come by does not shake out. It is a great job, with lots of rewards, and it is highly compensated. Is it a good job for family men, maybe not. Is it a good job for people who like 9-5 monday through friday, probably not. But are there people who can make it work for their families, and like LARGE chunks of time off…most definitely.

CAR, what is your relation to fire?

Flu,

Fact is, we are spending more per pupil in education then we ever have…and we are giving an arguably teaching our kids less. We should be able to demand more for less, because once upon a time, we got it.

The politicians will hold the firemen and teachers over our heads so they can punish us into giving them more money to delay reforms which make their head hurt. What more can we do, but vote them out and call their bluff.

[jstoesz]

[quote]**VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THEIR JOBS,**[/quote]

I think this is where I and most people on this thread vehemently disagree with you.

I know quite a few firemen. I lived with a helicopter crew in the backwoods Idaho (5 of them died in a helicopter crash), my brother in-law is a SD fireman, another friend is a hotshot in the tahoe area, another good fiend is a firehouse medic in mammoth, my mentor growing up was a CO fireman.

So again I know a lot of firemen. And most of these guys are not some sort of physical or mental phenoms. Some even fail some pretty basic responsibility and common sense tests (for anyone reading who knows me, some are really smart and anal to the point of psychosis). But if you ask them about their work, They will freely admit they are riding the gravy train.

So CAR, I am sorry if you disagree, but your assertion that firemen are hard to come by does not shake out. It is a great job, with lots of rewards, and it is highly compensated. Is it a good job for family men, maybe not. Is it a good job for people who like 9-5 monday through friday, probably not. But are there people who can make it work for their families, and like LARGE chunks of time off…most definitely.

CAR, what is your relation to fire?

Flu,

Fact is, we are spending more per pupil in education then we ever have…and we are giving an arguably teaching our kids less. We should be able to demand more for less, because once upon a time, we got it.

The politicians will hold the firemen and teachers over our heads so they can punish us into giving them more money to delay reforms which make their head hurt. What more can we do, but vote them out and call their bluff.

[jstoesz]

[quote]**VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THEIR JOBS,**[/quote]

I think this is where I and most people on this thread vehemently disagree with you.

I know quite a few firemen. I lived with a helicopter crew in the backwoods Idaho (5 of them died in a helicopter crash), my brother in-law is a SD fireman, another friend is a hotshot in the tahoe area, another good fiend is a firehouse medic in mammoth, my mentor growing up was a CO fireman.

So again I know a lot of firemen. And most of these guys are not some sort of physical or mental phenoms. Some even fail some pretty basic responsibility and common sense tests (for anyone reading who knows me, some are really smart and anal to the point of psychosis). But if you ask them about their work, They will freely admit they are riding the gravy train.

So CAR, I am sorry if you disagree, but your assertion that firemen are hard to come by does not shake out. It is a great job, with lots of rewards, and it is highly compensated. Is it a good job for family men, maybe not. Is it a good job for people who like 9-5 monday through friday, probably not. But are there people who can make it work for their families, and like LARGE chunks of time off…most definitely.

CAR, what is your relation to fire?

Flu,

Fact is, we are spending more per pupil in education then we ever have…and we are giving an arguably teaching our kids less. We should be able to demand more for less, because once upon a time, we got it.

The politicians will hold the firemen and teachers over our heads so they can punish us into giving them more money to delay reforms which make their head hurt. What more can we do, but vote them out and call their bluff.

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter][quote=flu][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.[/quote]

flu,

Please read my earlier post about what **is** happening WRT public safety employees — and what will probably come to pass in one form or another.

I don’t know of a single fire or police department that gave their employees net raises — they might have given them a “raise” but it was offset by the employees’ having to pay more or all of their contributions to their retirement plans, etc.

Many departments across the state, and probably around the country, have had cuts in both pay and benefits. Not sure where the stories about all these raises are coming from. People who are actually in these positions are not seeing it.

Just adding some info…

‘Labor-friendly’ CalPERS rejects labor plea

———————

What CalPERS pays out annually (approximately):

“CalPERS is the largest public pension system in the United States with a total fund market value of approximately $180 billion and annual payout obligations of over $10 billion to California pensioners.”

http://www.calpers-governance.org/docs-sof/marketinitiatives/initiatives/2009-07-14-senate-reed-testimony-regulating-hedge-funds.pdf

What California spends on illegal immigrants (probably on the low side, because it’s difficult to quantify since we have laws that prevent public agencies from determining immigration status):

“There also are other taxpayer costs — especially through local governments — but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2/3
——————

If illegal immigration were fixed, public services (and public servants’ pensions) could be greatly reduced because illegal immigrants consume a significant portion of these public services (schools, hospitals, prisons/law enforcement, financial aid, etc.).[/quote]

I know. No need to lecture me about city doing real time cuts on current public safety…Again, don’t you think there’s something wrong that we’re cutting current workers public/safety because that’s the only place we’re able to cut, and meanwhile people that aren’t in service untouched anymore?

Fair? Absolutely not….Does it screw people on pensions. Absolutely. That’s sort of what happened with in the airline business and see, either when the insurance kicked in or when bk renegotiated liabilities. Unfortunately, even if San Diego were to file bk, I don’t think it’s possible to redo the pensions.

And though I’m not sure how it’s relevant to this thread, if someone in CA actually wanted to deny benefits to people who aren’t here legally, that’s perfectly fine too. (How are illegal immigrants consume financial aid, I’m not so sure)… In fact, while we’re at it, I’d throw in capping unemployment, capping welfare, tossing the plan to build the stadium (at least till the Chargers actually win a superbowl or unless the chargers owner puts up 100% of the cost), the downtown library, etc, and making all those CEOs of bailed out companies pay the taxpayers back…with interest.

Unfortunately, everyone wants the economy to get better but no one wants to take the hit to make it so…No matter, we’re pretty screwed anyway. No real point in thinking about the greater good. It really is all person for himself/herself at this point….

So, we’re stuck….People don’t want to pay more taxes…And yet people are demanding same level of services….I don’t see many people supporting the sales tax increase for example.

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter][quote=flu][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.[/quote]

flu,

Please read my earlier post about what **is** happening WRT public safety employees — and what will probably come to pass in one form or another.

I don’t know of a single fire or police department that gave their employees net raises — they might have given them a “raise” but it was offset by the employees’ having to pay more or all of their contributions to their retirement plans, etc.

Many departments across the state, and probably around the country, have had cuts in both pay and benefits. Not sure where the stories about all these raises are coming from. People who are actually in these positions are not seeing it.

Just adding some info…

‘Labor-friendly’ CalPERS rejects labor plea

———————

What CalPERS pays out annually (approximately):

“CalPERS is the largest public pension system in the United States with a total fund market value of approximately $180 billion and annual payout obligations of over $10 billion to California pensioners.”

http://www.calpers-governance.org/docs-sof/marketinitiatives/initiatives/2009-07-14-senate-reed-testimony-regulating-hedge-funds.pdf

What California spends on illegal immigrants (probably on the low side, because it’s difficult to quantify since we have laws that prevent public agencies from determining immigration status):

“There also are other taxpayer costs — especially through local governments — but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2/3
——————

If illegal immigration were fixed, public services (and public servants’ pensions) could be greatly reduced because illegal immigrants consume a significant portion of these public services (schools, hospitals, prisons/law enforcement, financial aid, etc.).[/quote]

I know. No need to lecture me about city doing real time cuts on current public safety…Again, don’t you think there’s something wrong that we’re cutting current workers public/safety because that’s the only place we’re able to cut, and meanwhile people that aren’t in service untouched anymore?

Fair? Absolutely not….Does it screw people on pensions. Absolutely. That’s sort of what happened with in the airline business and see, either when the insurance kicked in or when bk renegotiated liabilities. Unfortunately, even if San Diego were to file bk, I don’t think it’s possible to redo the pensions.

And though I’m not sure how it’s relevant to this thread, if someone in CA actually wanted to deny benefits to people who aren’t here legally, that’s perfectly fine too. (How are illegal immigrants consume financial aid, I’m not so sure)… In fact, while we’re at it, I’d throw in capping unemployment, capping welfare, tossing the plan to build the stadium (at least till the Chargers actually win a superbowl or unless the chargers owner puts up 100% of the cost), the downtown library, etc, and making all those CEOs of bailed out companies pay the taxpayers back…with interest.

Unfortunately, everyone wants the economy to get better but no one wants to take the hit to make it so…No matter, we’re pretty screwed anyway. No real point in thinking about the greater good. It really is all person for himself/herself at this point….

So, we’re stuck….People don’t want to pay more taxes…And yet people are demanding same level of services….I don’t see many people supporting the sales tax increase for example.

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter][quote=flu][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.[/quote]

flu,

Please read my earlier post about what **is** happening WRT public safety employees — and what will probably come to pass in one form or another.

I don’t know of a single fire or police department that gave their employees net raises — they might have given them a “raise” but it was offset by the employees’ having to pay more or all of their contributions to their retirement plans, etc.

Many departments across the state, and probably around the country, have had cuts in both pay and benefits. Not sure where the stories about all these raises are coming from. People who are actually in these positions are not seeing it.

Just adding some info…

‘Labor-friendly’ CalPERS rejects labor plea

———————

What CalPERS pays out annually (approximately):

“CalPERS is the largest public pension system in the United States with a total fund market value of approximately $180 billion and annual payout obligations of over $10 billion to California pensioners.”

http://www.calpers-governance.org/docs-sof/marketinitiatives/initiatives/2009-07-14-senate-reed-testimony-regulating-hedge-funds.pdf

What California spends on illegal immigrants (probably on the low side, because it’s difficult to quantify since we have laws that prevent public agencies from determining immigration status):

“There also are other taxpayer costs — especially through local governments — but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2/3
——————

If illegal immigration were fixed, public services (and public servants’ pensions) could be greatly reduced because illegal immigrants consume a significant portion of these public services (schools, hospitals, prisons/law enforcement, financial aid, etc.).[/quote]

I know. No need to lecture me about city doing real time cuts on current public safety…Again, don’t you think there’s something wrong that we’re cutting current workers public/safety because that’s the only place we’re able to cut, and meanwhile people that aren’t in service untouched anymore?

Fair? Absolutely not….Does it screw people on pensions. Absolutely. That’s sort of what happened with in the airline business and see, either when the insurance kicked in or when bk renegotiated liabilities. Unfortunately, even if San Diego were to file bk, I don’t think it’s possible to redo the pensions.

And though I’m not sure how it’s relevant to this thread, if someone in CA actually wanted to deny benefits to people who aren’t here legally, that’s perfectly fine too. (How are illegal immigrants consume financial aid, I’m not so sure)… In fact, while we’re at it, I’d throw in capping unemployment, capping welfare, tossing the plan to build the stadium (at least till the Chargers actually win a superbowl or unless the chargers owner puts up 100% of the cost), the downtown library, etc, and making all those CEOs of bailed out companies pay the taxpayers back…with interest.

Unfortunately, everyone wants the economy to get better but no one wants to take the hit to make it so…No matter, we’re pretty screwed anyway. No real point in thinking about the greater good. It really is all person for himself/herself at this point….

So, we’re stuck….People don’t want to pay more taxes…And yet people are demanding same level of services….I don’t see many people supporting the sales tax increase for example.

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter][quote=flu][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.[/quote]

flu,

Please read my earlier post about what **is** happening WRT public safety employees — and what will probably come to pass in one form or another.

I don’t know of a single fire or police department that gave their employees net raises — they might have given them a “raise” but it was offset by the employees’ having to pay more or all of their contributions to their retirement plans, etc.

Many departments across the state, and probably around the country, have had cuts in both pay and benefits. Not sure where the stories about all these raises are coming from. People who are actually in these positions are not seeing it.

Just adding some info…

‘Labor-friendly’ CalPERS rejects labor plea

———————

What CalPERS pays out annually (approximately):

“CalPERS is the largest public pension system in the United States with a total fund market value of approximately $180 billion and annual payout obligations of over $10 billion to California pensioners.”

http://www.calpers-governance.org/docs-sof/marketinitiatives/initiatives/2009-07-14-senate-reed-testimony-regulating-hedge-funds.pdf

What California spends on illegal immigrants (probably on the low side, because it’s difficult to quantify since we have laws that prevent public agencies from determining immigration status):

“There also are other taxpayer costs — especially through local governments — but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2/3
——————

If illegal immigration were fixed, public services (and public servants’ pensions) could be greatly reduced because illegal immigrants consume a significant portion of these public services (schools, hospitals, prisons/law enforcement, financial aid, etc.).[/quote]

I know. No need to lecture me about city doing real time cuts on current public safety…Again, don’t you think there’s something wrong that we’re cutting current workers public/safety because that’s the only place we’re able to cut, and meanwhile people that aren’t in service untouched anymore?

Fair? Absolutely not….Does it screw people on pensions. Absolutely. That’s sort of what happened with in the airline business and see, either when the insurance kicked in or when bk renegotiated liabilities. Unfortunately, even if San Diego were to file bk, I don’t think it’s possible to redo the pensions.

And though I’m not sure how it’s relevant to this thread, if someone in CA actually wanted to deny benefits to people who aren’t here legally, that’s perfectly fine too. (How are illegal immigrants consume financial aid, I’m not so sure)… In fact, while we’re at it, I’d throw in capping unemployment, capping welfare, tossing the plan to build the stadium (at least till the Chargers actually win a superbowl or unless the chargers owner puts up 100% of the cost), the downtown library, etc, and making all those CEOs of bailed out companies pay the taxpayers back…with interest.

Unfortunately, everyone wants the economy to get better but no one wants to take the hit to make it so…No matter, we’re pretty screwed anyway. No real point in thinking about the greater good. It really is all person for himself/herself at this point….

So, we’re stuck….People don’t want to pay more taxes…And yet people are demanding same level of services….I don’t see many people supporting the sales tax increase for example.

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter][quote=flu][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.[/quote]

flu,

Please read my earlier post about what **is** happening WRT public safety employees — and what will probably come to pass in one form or another.

I don’t know of a single fire or police department that gave their employees net raises — they might have given them a “raise” but it was offset by the employees’ having to pay more or all of their contributions to their retirement plans, etc.

Many departments across the state, and probably around the country, have had cuts in both pay and benefits. Not sure where the stories about all these raises are coming from. People who are actually in these positions are not seeing it.

Just adding some info…

‘Labor-friendly’ CalPERS rejects labor plea

———————

What CalPERS pays out annually (approximately):

“CalPERS is the largest public pension system in the United States with a total fund market value of approximately $180 billion and annual payout obligations of over $10 billion to California pensioners.”

http://www.calpers-governance.org/docs-sof/marketinitiatives/initiatives/2009-07-14-senate-reed-testimony-regulating-hedge-funds.pdf

What California spends on illegal immigrants (probably on the low side, because it’s difficult to quantify since we have laws that prevent public agencies from determining immigration status):

“There also are other taxpayer costs — especially through local governments — but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2/3
——————

If illegal immigration were fixed, public services (and public servants’ pensions) could be greatly reduced because illegal immigrants consume a significant portion of these public services (schools, hospitals, prisons/law enforcement, financial aid, etc.).[/quote]

I know. No need to lecture me about city doing real time cuts on current public safety…Again, don’t you think there’s something wrong that we’re cutting current workers public/safety because that’s the only place we’re able to cut, and meanwhile people that aren’t in service untouched anymore?

Fair? Absolutely not….Does it screw people on pensions. Absolutely. That’s sort of what happened with in the airline business and see, either when the insurance kicked in or when bk renegotiated liabilities. Unfortunately, even if San Diego were to file bk, I don’t think it’s possible to redo the pensions.

And though I’m not sure how it’s relevant to this thread, if someone in CA actually wanted to deny benefits to people who aren’t here legally, that’s perfectly fine too. (How are illegal immigrants consume financial aid, I’m not so sure)… In fact, while we’re at it, I’d throw in capping unemployment, capping welfare, tossing the plan to build the stadium (at least till the Chargers actually win a superbowl or unless the chargers owner puts up 100% of the cost), the downtown library, etc, and making all those CEOs of bailed out companies pay the taxpayers back…with interest.

Unfortunately, everyone wants the economy to get better but no one wants to take the hit to make it so…No matter, we’re pretty screwed anyway. No real point in thinking about the greater good. It really is all person for himself/herself at this point….

So, we’re stuck….People don’t want to pay more taxes…And yet people are demanding same level of services….I don’t see many people supporting the sales tax increase for example.

[sdrealtor]

joe
Good post. BTW, I exclude cops from this conversation as i think they really have shitty dangerous jobs I would want no part of but fireman have great jobs that alot of people would and could do if they understood what the opportunity really was about. It has been said more than once on this thread that it is all about the training they get. Give me a reasonably athletic person with slightly above average intelligence and I beleive we could make them a great fireman. Let the general public know that there are 6 figures incomes to be had in that profession with incredible early retirement benefits and we would have star athletes with very high intelligence fighting for those jobs.

[sdrealtor]

joe
Good post. BTW, I exclude cops from this conversation as i think they really have shitty dangerous jobs I would want no part of but fireman have great jobs that alot of people would and could do if they understood what the opportunity really was about. It has been said more than once on this thread that it is all about the training they get. Give me a reasonably athletic person with slightly above average intelligence and I beleive we could make them a great fireman. Let the general public know that there are 6 figures incomes to be had in that profession with incredible early retirement benefits and we would have star athletes with very high intelligence fighting for those jobs.

[sdrealtor]

joe
Good post. BTW, I exclude cops from this conversation as i think they really have shitty dangerous jobs I would want no part of but fireman have great jobs that alot of people would and could do if they understood what the opportunity really was about. It has been said more than once on this thread that it is all about the training they get. Give me a reasonably athletic person with slightly above average intelligence and I beleive we could make them a great fireman. Let the general public know that there are 6 figures incomes to be had in that profession with incredible early retirement benefits and we would have star athletes with very high intelligence fighting for those jobs.

[sdrealtor]

joe
Good post. BTW, I exclude cops from this conversation as i think they really have shitty dangerous jobs I would want no part of but fireman have great jobs that alot of people would and could do if they understood what the opportunity really was about. It has been said more than once on this thread that it is all about the training they get. Give me a reasonably athletic person with slightly above average intelligence and I beleive we could make them a great fireman. Let the general public know that there are 6 figures incomes to be had in that profession with incredible early retirement benefits and we would have star athletes with very high intelligence fighting for those jobs.

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