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GH.
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October 10, 2010 at 11:19 PM #616731October 10, 2010 at 11:43 PM #615659
sdrealtor
ParticipantNo its isnt, not even close. There is pay level information buried somewhere in cyberspace but not the level I detail we should be able to see. I had no idea how much they got paid until I saw actual tax returns and I am certain the gernal public has no idea either. Without identifying anyone in particular and frankly most were out of this immediate area, I have told several people the numbers I have seen. They were all as shocked as I was.
I would like to be able to go to website and see the compensation of each employee at any given station. I dont need names but I would like to be able to pull up a station and see that there are 10 people there and how much each of them were paid in salary, overtime and benefits last year.
This is the kind of transparancy you are calling for in real estate which you believe is a matter of public welfare. I beleive the compensation of our public employees should bear the same burden.
October 10, 2010 at 11:43 PM #615745ParticipantNo its isnt, not even close. There is pay level information buried somewhere in cyberspace but not the level I detail we should be able to see. I had no idea how much they got paid until I saw actual tax returns and I am certain the gernal public has no idea either. Without identifying anyone in particular and frankly most were out of this immediate area, I have told several people the numbers I have seen. They were all as shocked as I was.
I would like to be able to go to website and see the compensation of each employee at any given station. I dont need names but I would like to be able to pull up a station and see that there are 10 people there and how much each of them were paid in salary, overtime and benefits last year.
This is the kind of transparancy you are calling for in real estate which you believe is a matter of public welfare. I beleive the compensation of our public employees should bear the same burden.
October 10, 2010 at 11:43 PM #616300ParticipantNo its isnt, not even close. There is pay level information buried somewhere in cyberspace but not the level I detail we should be able to see. I had no idea how much they got paid until I saw actual tax returns and I am certain the gernal public has no idea either. Without identifying anyone in particular and frankly most were out of this immediate area, I have told several people the numbers I have seen. They were all as shocked as I was.
I would like to be able to go to website and see the compensation of each employee at any given station. I dont need names but I would like to be able to pull up a station and see that there are 10 people there and how much each of them were paid in salary, overtime and benefits last year.
This is the kind of transparancy you are calling for in real estate which you believe is a matter of public welfare. I beleive the compensation of our public employees should bear the same burden.
October 10, 2010 at 11:43 PM #616422ParticipantNo its isnt, not even close. There is pay level information buried somewhere in cyberspace but not the level I detail we should be able to see. I had no idea how much they got paid until I saw actual tax returns and I am certain the gernal public has no idea either. Without identifying anyone in particular and frankly most were out of this immediate area, I have told several people the numbers I have seen. They were all as shocked as I was.
I would like to be able to go to website and see the compensation of each employee at any given station. I dont need names but I would like to be able to pull up a station and see that there are 10 people there and how much each of them were paid in salary, overtime and benefits last year.
This is the kind of transparancy you are calling for in real estate which you believe is a matter of public welfare. I beleive the compensation of our public employees should bear the same burden.
October 10, 2010 at 11:43 PM #616736ParticipantNo its isnt, not even close. There is pay level information buried somewhere in cyberspace but not the level I detail we should be able to see. I had no idea how much they got paid until I saw actual tax returns and I am certain the gernal public has no idea either. Without identifying anyone in particular and frankly most were out of this immediate area, I have told several people the numbers I have seen. They were all as shocked as I was.
I would like to be able to go to website and see the compensation of each employee at any given station. I dont need names but I would like to be able to pull up a station and see that there are 10 people there and how much each of them were paid in salary, overtime and benefits last year.
This is the kind of transparancy you are calling for in real estate which you believe is a matter of public welfare. I beleive the compensation of our public employees should bear the same burden.
October 10, 2010 at 11:46 PM #615664CA renter
Participant[quote=GH]Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?
My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.
Don’t believe me?
I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.
The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.[/quote]
The fishermen who have the high mortality rates are the ones who fish off the Alaskan coast. They actually make much more than firefigters do, as do many iron workers, lumbermen, etc.
Do realize that firefighters and cops are not merely being compensated because of the risks they face, they are being compensated because **VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THEIR JOBS,** contrary to the lies being spewed on blogs by people who have absolutely NO experience or knowledge about the jobs.
You have no idea how few people can actually work in the kind of environment they have to — while being shot at, and dealing with people who want to kill them on a daily basis — never knowing if the car you’re pulling over is occupied by gang members who wouldn’t think twice about shooting at cops, etc. (but you better not get all nervous and shoot them first!). Or working in very confined spaces with smoke and fire all around; or in 200-1,000+ degree heat, carrying around heavy packs and equipment while being surrounded by flames and smoke. Cops and firefighters have to pass rigorous physical, mental, and psychological tests, plus they have to pass thorough background checks just to start, and plenty of people are dropped during their probationary period. You really believe any Joe can do this? I don’t, and I know that for a fact.
Firefighters and cops provide services that are essential to any developed civilization. Without them, everything would fail.
BTW, you do realize that the fatality numbers are far greater for volunteers than for paid firefighters, right? The reason why they die and get injured more often is because they lack the training of professional firefighers. Also, you can’t have volunteer firefighters in an urban or suburban setting. Find one city that has a volunteer department, and compare their response times and outcomes to a professional department. You will then understand why you can’t have volunteer firefighters in areas with large populations.
Sorry, there are plenty of other people who are far more overcompensated than cops and firefighters…and we, the taxpayers, have to pay for them, too.
http://www.geldpress.com/2008/12/bailout-cost-85-trillion/
And then there are the illegal immigrants that we all have to pay for while their employers reap the benefits of this “cheap” (for them) labor.
Fix those things first, and once that’s done, you can come back and try to “fix” public servants’ compensation.
October 10, 2010 at 11:46 PM #615750Participant[quote=GH]Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?
My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.
Don’t believe me?
I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.
The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.[/quote]
The fishermen who have the high mortality rates are the ones who fish off the Alaskan coast. They actually make much more than firefigters do, as do many iron workers, lumbermen, etc.
Do realize that firefighters and cops are not merely being compensated because of the risks they face, they are being compensated because **VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THEIR JOBS,** contrary to the lies being spewed on blogs by people who have absolutely NO experience or knowledge about the jobs.
You have no idea how few people can actually work in the kind of environment they have to — while being shot at, and dealing with people who want to kill them on a daily basis — never knowing if the car you’re pulling over is occupied by gang members who wouldn’t think twice about shooting at cops, etc. (but you better not get all nervous and shoot them first!). Or working in very confined spaces with smoke and fire all around; or in 200-1,000+ degree heat, carrying around heavy packs and equipment while being surrounded by flames and smoke. Cops and firefighters have to pass rigorous physical, mental, and psychological tests, plus they have to pass thorough background checks just to start, and plenty of people are dropped during their probationary period. You really believe any Joe can do this? I don’t, and I know that for a fact.
Firefighters and cops provide services that are essential to any developed civilization. Without them, everything would fail.
BTW, you do realize that the fatality numbers are far greater for volunteers than for paid firefighters, right? The reason why they die and get injured more often is because they lack the training of professional firefighers. Also, you can’t have volunteer firefighters in an urban or suburban setting. Find one city that has a volunteer department, and compare their response times and outcomes to a professional department. You will then understand why you can’t have volunteer firefighters in areas with large populations.
Sorry, there are plenty of other people who are far more overcompensated than cops and firefighters…and we, the taxpayers, have to pay for them, too.
http://www.geldpress.com/2008/12/bailout-cost-85-trillion/
And then there are the illegal immigrants that we all have to pay for while their employers reap the benefits of this “cheap” (for them) labor.
Fix those things first, and once that’s done, you can come back and try to “fix” public servants’ compensation.
October 10, 2010 at 11:46 PM #616305Participant[quote=GH]Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?
My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.
Don’t believe me?
I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.
The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.[/quote]
The fishermen who have the high mortality rates are the ones who fish off the Alaskan coast. They actually make much more than firefigters do, as do many iron workers, lumbermen, etc.
Do realize that firefighters and cops are not merely being compensated because of the risks they face, they are being compensated because **VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THEIR JOBS,** contrary to the lies being spewed on blogs by people who have absolutely NO experience or knowledge about the jobs.
You have no idea how few people can actually work in the kind of environment they have to — while being shot at, and dealing with people who want to kill them on a daily basis — never knowing if the car you’re pulling over is occupied by gang members who wouldn’t think twice about shooting at cops, etc. (but you better not get all nervous and shoot them first!). Or working in very confined spaces with smoke and fire all around; or in 200-1,000+ degree heat, carrying around heavy packs and equipment while being surrounded by flames and smoke. Cops and firefighters have to pass rigorous physical, mental, and psychological tests, plus they have to pass thorough background checks just to start, and plenty of people are dropped during their probationary period. You really believe any Joe can do this? I don’t, and I know that for a fact.
Firefighters and cops provide services that are essential to any developed civilization. Without them, everything would fail.
BTW, you do realize that the fatality numbers are far greater for volunteers than for paid firefighters, right? The reason why they die and get injured more often is because they lack the training of professional firefighers. Also, you can’t have volunteer firefighters in an urban or suburban setting. Find one city that has a volunteer department, and compare their response times and outcomes to a professional department. You will then understand why you can’t have volunteer firefighters in areas with large populations.
Sorry, there are plenty of other people who are far more overcompensated than cops and firefighters…and we, the taxpayers, have to pay for them, too.
http://www.geldpress.com/2008/12/bailout-cost-85-trillion/
And then there are the illegal immigrants that we all have to pay for while their employers reap the benefits of this “cheap” (for them) labor.
Fix those things first, and once that’s done, you can come back and try to “fix” public servants’ compensation.
October 10, 2010 at 11:46 PM #616427Participant[quote=GH]Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?
My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.
Don’t believe me?
I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.
The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.[/quote]
The fishermen who have the high mortality rates are the ones who fish off the Alaskan coast. They actually make much more than firefigters do, as do many iron workers, lumbermen, etc.
Do realize that firefighters and cops are not merely being compensated because of the risks they face, they are being compensated because **VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THEIR JOBS,** contrary to the lies being spewed on blogs by people who have absolutely NO experience or knowledge about the jobs.
You have no idea how few people can actually work in the kind of environment they have to — while being shot at, and dealing with people who want to kill them on a daily basis — never knowing if the car you’re pulling over is occupied by gang members who wouldn’t think twice about shooting at cops, etc. (but you better not get all nervous and shoot them first!). Or working in very confined spaces with smoke and fire all around; or in 200-1,000+ degree heat, carrying around heavy packs and equipment while being surrounded by flames and smoke. Cops and firefighters have to pass rigorous physical, mental, and psychological tests, plus they have to pass thorough background checks just to start, and plenty of people are dropped during their probationary period. You really believe any Joe can do this? I don’t, and I know that for a fact.
Firefighters and cops provide services that are essential to any developed civilization. Without them, everything would fail.
BTW, you do realize that the fatality numbers are far greater for volunteers than for paid firefighters, right? The reason why they die and get injured more often is because they lack the training of professional firefighers. Also, you can’t have volunteer firefighters in an urban or suburban setting. Find one city that has a volunteer department, and compare their response times and outcomes to a professional department. You will then understand why you can’t have volunteer firefighters in areas with large populations.
Sorry, there are plenty of other people who are far more overcompensated than cops and firefighters…and we, the taxpayers, have to pay for them, too.
http://www.geldpress.com/2008/12/bailout-cost-85-trillion/
And then there are the illegal immigrants that we all have to pay for while their employers reap the benefits of this “cheap” (for them) labor.
Fix those things first, and once that’s done, you can come back and try to “fix” public servants’ compensation.
October 10, 2010 at 11:46 PM #616741Participant[quote=GH]Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?
My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.
Don’t believe me?
I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.
The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.[/quote]
The fishermen who have the high mortality rates are the ones who fish off the Alaskan coast. They actually make much more than firefigters do, as do many iron workers, lumbermen, etc.
Do realize that firefighters and cops are not merely being compensated because of the risks they face, they are being compensated because **VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THEIR JOBS,** contrary to the lies being spewed on blogs by people who have absolutely NO experience or knowledge about the jobs.
You have no idea how few people can actually work in the kind of environment they have to — while being shot at, and dealing with people who want to kill them on a daily basis — never knowing if the car you’re pulling over is occupied by gang members who wouldn’t think twice about shooting at cops, etc. (but you better not get all nervous and shoot them first!). Or working in very confined spaces with smoke and fire all around; or in 200-1,000+ degree heat, carrying around heavy packs and equipment while being surrounded by flames and smoke. Cops and firefighters have to pass rigorous physical, mental, and psychological tests, plus they have to pass thorough background checks just to start, and plenty of people are dropped during their probationary period. You really believe any Joe can do this? I don’t, and I know that for a fact.
Firefighters and cops provide services that are essential to any developed civilization. Without them, everything would fail.
BTW, you do realize that the fatality numbers are far greater for volunteers than for paid firefighters, right? The reason why they die and get injured more often is because they lack the training of professional firefighers. Also, you can’t have volunteer firefighters in an urban or suburban setting. Find one city that has a volunteer department, and compare their response times and outcomes to a professional department. You will then understand why you can’t have volunteer firefighters in areas with large populations.
Sorry, there are plenty of other people who are far more overcompensated than cops and firefighters…and we, the taxpayers, have to pay for them, too.
http://www.geldpress.com/2008/12/bailout-cost-85-trillion/
And then there are the illegal immigrants that we all have to pay for while their employers reap the benefits of this “cheap” (for them) labor.
Fix those things first, and once that’s done, you can come back and try to “fix” public servants’ compensation.
October 11, 2010 at 12:54 AM #615669Participant[quote=flu][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]
Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….
The choices are pretty simple.
1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.[/quote]
flu,
Please read my earlier post about what **is** happening WRT public safety employees — and what will probably come to pass in one form or another.
I don’t know of a single fire or police department that gave their employees net raises — they might have given them a “raise” but it was offset by the employees’ having to pay more or all of their contributions to their retirement plans, etc.
Many departments across the state, and probably around the country, have had cuts in both pay and benefits. Not sure where the stories about all these raises are coming from. People who are actually in these positions are not seeing it.
Just adding some info…
———————
What CalPERS pays out annually (approximately):
“CalPERS is the largest public pension system in the United States with a total fund market value of approximately $180 billion and annual payout obligations of over $10 billion to California pensioners.”
What California spends on illegal immigrants (probably on the low side, because it’s difficult to quantify since we have laws that prevent public agencies from determining immigration status):
“There also are other taxpayer costs — especially through local governments — but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2/3
——————If illegal immigration were fixed, public services (and public servants’ pensions) could be greatly reduced because illegal immigrants consume a significant portion of these public services (schools, hospitals, prisons/law enforcement, financial aid, etc.).
October 11, 2010 at 12:54 AM #615755Participant[quote=flu][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]
Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….
The choices are pretty simple.
1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.[/quote]
flu,
Please read my earlier post about what **is** happening WRT public safety employees — and what will probably come to pass in one form or another.
I don’t know of a single fire or police department that gave their employees net raises — they might have given them a “raise” but it was offset by the employees’ having to pay more or all of their contributions to their retirement plans, etc.
Many departments across the state, and probably around the country, have had cuts in both pay and benefits. Not sure where the stories about all these raises are coming from. People who are actually in these positions are not seeing it.
Just adding some info…
———————
What CalPERS pays out annually (approximately):
“CalPERS is the largest public pension system in the United States with a total fund market value of approximately $180 billion and annual payout obligations of over $10 billion to California pensioners.”
What California spends on illegal immigrants (probably on the low side, because it’s difficult to quantify since we have laws that prevent public agencies from determining immigration status):
“There also are other taxpayer costs — especially through local governments — but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2/3
——————If illegal immigration were fixed, public services (and public servants’ pensions) could be greatly reduced because illegal immigrants consume a significant portion of these public services (schools, hospitals, prisons/law enforcement, financial aid, etc.).
October 11, 2010 at 12:54 AM #616310Participant[quote=flu][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]
Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….
The choices are pretty simple.
1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.[/quote]
flu,
Please read my earlier post about what **is** happening WRT public safety employees — and what will probably come to pass in one form or another.
I don’t know of a single fire or police department that gave their employees net raises — they might have given them a “raise” but it was offset by the employees’ having to pay more or all of their contributions to their retirement plans, etc.
Many departments across the state, and probably around the country, have had cuts in both pay and benefits. Not sure where the stories about all these raises are coming from. People who are actually in these positions are not seeing it.
Just adding some info…
———————
What CalPERS pays out annually (approximately):
“CalPERS is the largest public pension system in the United States with a total fund market value of approximately $180 billion and annual payout obligations of over $10 billion to California pensioners.”
What California spends on illegal immigrants (probably on the low side, because it’s difficult to quantify since we have laws that prevent public agencies from determining immigration status):
“There also are other taxpayer costs — especially through local governments — but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2/3
——————If illegal immigration were fixed, public services (and public servants’ pensions) could be greatly reduced because illegal immigrants consume a significant portion of these public services (schools, hospitals, prisons/law enforcement, financial aid, etc.).
October 11, 2010 at 12:54 AM #616432Participant[quote=flu][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]
Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….
The choices are pretty simple.
1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.[/quote]
flu,
Please read my earlier post about what **is** happening WRT public safety employees — and what will probably come to pass in one form or another.
I don’t know of a single fire or police department that gave their employees net raises — they might have given them a “raise” but it was offset by the employees’ having to pay more or all of their contributions to their retirement plans, etc.
Many departments across the state, and probably around the country, have had cuts in both pay and benefits. Not sure where the stories about all these raises are coming from. People who are actually in these positions are not seeing it.
Just adding some info…
———————
What CalPERS pays out annually (approximately):
“CalPERS is the largest public pension system in the United States with a total fund market value of approximately $180 billion and annual payout obligations of over $10 billion to California pensioners.”
What California spends on illegal immigrants (probably on the low side, because it’s difficult to quantify since we have laws that prevent public agencies from determining immigration status):
“There also are other taxpayer costs — especially through local governments — but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2/3
——————If illegal immigration were fixed, public services (and public servants’ pensions) could be greatly reduced because illegal immigrants consume a significant portion of these public services (schools, hospitals, prisons/law enforcement, financial aid, etc.).
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