OT: Public pay & benefits

[Coronita]

[quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.

[jpinpb]

flu – this is going to be hard to believe, but I know average cops that did not get a COL increase all through the bubble, and unlike Acosta, did not buy a house b/c they could not afford it w/out a liar loan.

The City negotiated to not give raises, but in lieu, contribute more to their pensions. Something the City never did and are now litigating and trying to get out of doing.

And while many people were making bank during the bubble years in their jobs, these cops continued w/their same pay rate the entire time. And since their hours generally are crap, they didn’t become part time realtors so they can make extra money.

Many of them just stuck it out b/c in their head they’re thinking slow and steady wins the race and when they retire, they will have something to fall back on. Now that may not happen.

But when I think about some of the realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, etc, etc and the vast amount of money they made during the bubble years for the minimal amount of work performed, I assure you that hindsight, I would have told those cops to quit their job for greener pastures, particularly if come retirement they will not have what was promised to them.

I guess everyone has their time in the sun. During the dot-com bubble, my cousin was making money hand over fist. Now those jobs are overseas and he is getting by, wishing he didn’t blow it all foolishly.

It is not the cops and firemen’s fault if the City decided to spend the money on a stadium or invest in real estate foolishly, CDOs or whatever else the City risked it on. Yet they are/will be punished for this. And b/c of the City’s financial mismanagement, they will try to suck more money out of the taxpayers any way they can. And if they can’t, they will not hesitate to cut services.

So what happens during the good times is the City takes risks w/the pension of its workers. Then in the bad times, wants to stick it to the workers. During the good times, no ones cares what promises are made. During the bad times, everyone is outraged.

During the good times, everyone thinks it will last forever and no one wants to save for a rainy day, including cities. So now the rainy days are here and everyone wants to take it away from the worker bees.

This is just so typical, I frankly don’t know how someone is willing to agree to such terms.

And I can understand the outrage, b/c I was certainly outraged when CEOs got bonuses during a financial crisis that taxpayers footed the bill for. What was the justification/explanation. It was a contract that was entered into/agreed upon, thus those bonuses must be honored.

The city workers entered into a contract and honored their part. Doesn’t the city have a duty to fulfill the contract?

During the good times the city basically told the workers, “I’ll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.” And the workers were dumb enough to agree. Here it is Tuesday and the city is broke.
That worked out.

Meanwhile, many people made money during the bubble years, spent it lavishly, buying multiple houses, HELOCs for new cars and trips, etc etc. Now living for free. While the city workers are stuck w/basically an IOU that may not materialize.

And during the good times people could have done whatever they wanted w/the money they were making, saving for the future, investing for their retirement. The city workers did not have that option. Their money is “invested” in their pension.

[jpinpb]

flu – this is going to be hard to believe, but I know average cops that did not get a COL increase all through the bubble, and unlike Acosta, did not buy a house b/c they could not afford it w/out a liar loan.

The City negotiated to not give raises, but in lieu, contribute more to their pensions. Something the City never did and are now litigating and trying to get out of doing.

And while many people were making bank during the bubble years in their jobs, these cops continued w/their same pay rate the entire time. And since their hours generally are crap, they didn’t become part time realtors so they can make extra money.

Many of them just stuck it out b/c in their head they’re thinking slow and steady wins the race and when they retire, they will have something to fall back on. Now that may not happen.

But when I think about some of the realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, etc, etc and the vast amount of money they made during the bubble years for the minimal amount of work performed, I assure you that hindsight, I would have told those cops to quit their job for greener pastures, particularly if come retirement they will not have what was promised to them.

I guess everyone has their time in the sun. During the dot-com bubble, my cousin was making money hand over fist. Now those jobs are overseas and he is getting by, wishing he didn’t blow it all foolishly.

It is not the cops and firemen’s fault if the City decided to spend the money on a stadium or invest in real estate foolishly, CDOs or whatever else the City risked it on. Yet they are/will be punished for this. And b/c of the City’s financial mismanagement, they will try to suck more money out of the taxpayers any way they can. And if they can’t, they will not hesitate to cut services.

So what happens during the good times is the City takes risks w/the pension of its workers. Then in the bad times, wants to stick it to the workers. During the good times, no ones cares what promises are made. During the bad times, everyone is outraged.

During the good times, everyone thinks it will last forever and no one wants to save for a rainy day, including cities. So now the rainy days are here and everyone wants to take it away from the worker bees.

This is just so typical, I frankly don’t know how someone is willing to agree to such terms.

And I can understand the outrage, b/c I was certainly outraged when CEOs got bonuses during a financial crisis that taxpayers footed the bill for. What was the justification/explanation. It was a contract that was entered into/agreed upon, thus those bonuses must be honored.

The city workers entered into a contract and honored their part. Doesn’t the city have a duty to fulfill the contract?

During the good times the city basically told the workers, “I’ll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.” And the workers were dumb enough to agree. Here it is Tuesday and the city is broke.
That worked out.

Meanwhile, many people made money during the bubble years, spent it lavishly, buying multiple houses, HELOCs for new cars and trips, etc etc. Now living for free. While the city workers are stuck w/basically an IOU that may not materialize.

And during the good times people could have done whatever they wanted w/the money they were making, saving for the future, investing for their retirement. The city workers did not have that option. Their money is “invested” in their pension.

[jpinpb]

flu – this is going to be hard to believe, but I know average cops that did not get a COL increase all through the bubble, and unlike Acosta, did not buy a house b/c they could not afford it w/out a liar loan.

The City negotiated to not give raises, but in lieu, contribute more to their pensions. Something the City never did and are now litigating and trying to get out of doing.

And while many people were making bank during the bubble years in their jobs, these cops continued w/their same pay rate the entire time. And since their hours generally are crap, they didn’t become part time realtors so they can make extra money.

Many of them just stuck it out b/c in their head they’re thinking slow and steady wins the race and when they retire, they will have something to fall back on. Now that may not happen.

But when I think about some of the realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, etc, etc and the vast amount of money they made during the bubble years for the minimal amount of work performed, I assure you that hindsight, I would have told those cops to quit their job for greener pastures, particularly if come retirement they will not have what was promised to them.

I guess everyone has their time in the sun. During the dot-com bubble, my cousin was making money hand over fist. Now those jobs are overseas and he is getting by, wishing he didn’t blow it all foolishly.

It is not the cops and firemen’s fault if the City decided to spend the money on a stadium or invest in real estate foolishly, CDOs or whatever else the City risked it on. Yet they are/will be punished for this. And b/c of the City’s financial mismanagement, they will try to suck more money out of the taxpayers any way they can. And if they can’t, they will not hesitate to cut services.

So what happens during the good times is the City takes risks w/the pension of its workers. Then in the bad times, wants to stick it to the workers. During the good times, no ones cares what promises are made. During the bad times, everyone is outraged.

During the good times, everyone thinks it will last forever and no one wants to save for a rainy day, including cities. So now the rainy days are here and everyone wants to take it away from the worker bees.

This is just so typical, I frankly don’t know how someone is willing to agree to such terms.

And I can understand the outrage, b/c I was certainly outraged when CEOs got bonuses during a financial crisis that taxpayers footed the bill for. What was the justification/explanation. It was a contract that was entered into/agreed upon, thus those bonuses must be honored.

The city workers entered into a contract and honored their part. Doesn’t the city have a duty to fulfill the contract?

During the good times the city basically told the workers, “I’ll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.” And the workers were dumb enough to agree. Here it is Tuesday and the city is broke.
That worked out.

Meanwhile, many people made money during the bubble years, spent it lavishly, buying multiple houses, HELOCs for new cars and trips, etc etc. Now living for free. While the city workers are stuck w/basically an IOU that may not materialize.

And during the good times people could have done whatever they wanted w/the money they were making, saving for the future, investing for their retirement. The city workers did not have that option. Their money is “invested” in their pension.

[jpinpb]

flu – this is going to be hard to believe, but I know average cops that did not get a COL increase all through the bubble, and unlike Acosta, did not buy a house b/c they could not afford it w/out a liar loan.

The City negotiated to not give raises, but in lieu, contribute more to their pensions. Something the City never did and are now litigating and trying to get out of doing.

And while many people were making bank during the bubble years in their jobs, these cops continued w/their same pay rate the entire time. And since their hours generally are crap, they didn’t become part time realtors so they can make extra money.

Many of them just stuck it out b/c in their head they’re thinking slow and steady wins the race and when they retire, they will have something to fall back on. Now that may not happen.

But when I think about some of the realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, etc, etc and the vast amount of money they made during the bubble years for the minimal amount of work performed, I assure you that hindsight, I would have told those cops to quit their job for greener pastures, particularly if come retirement they will not have what was promised to them.

I guess everyone has their time in the sun. During the dot-com bubble, my cousin was making money hand over fist. Now those jobs are overseas and he is getting by, wishing he didn’t blow it all foolishly.

It is not the cops and firemen’s fault if the City decided to spend the money on a stadium or invest in real estate foolishly, CDOs or whatever else the City risked it on. Yet they are/will be punished for this. And b/c of the City’s financial mismanagement, they will try to suck more money out of the taxpayers any way they can. And if they can’t, they will not hesitate to cut services.

So what happens during the good times is the City takes risks w/the pension of its workers. Then in the bad times, wants to stick it to the workers. During the good times, no ones cares what promises are made. During the bad times, everyone is outraged.

During the good times, everyone thinks it will last forever and no one wants to save for a rainy day, including cities. So now the rainy days are here and everyone wants to take it away from the worker bees.

This is just so typical, I frankly don’t know how someone is willing to agree to such terms.

And I can understand the outrage, b/c I was certainly outraged when CEOs got bonuses during a financial crisis that taxpayers footed the bill for. What was the justification/explanation. It was a contract that was entered into/agreed upon, thus those bonuses must be honored.

The city workers entered into a contract and honored their part. Doesn’t the city have a duty to fulfill the contract?

During the good times the city basically told the workers, “I’ll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.” And the workers were dumb enough to agree. Here it is Tuesday and the city is broke.
That worked out.

Meanwhile, many people made money during the bubble years, spent it lavishly, buying multiple houses, HELOCs for new cars and trips, etc etc. Now living for free. While the city workers are stuck w/basically an IOU that may not materialize.

And during the good times people could have done whatever they wanted w/the money they were making, saving for the future, investing for their retirement. The city workers did not have that option. Their money is “invested” in their pension.

[jpinpb]

flu – this is going to be hard to believe, but I know average cops that did not get a COL increase all through the bubble, and unlike Acosta, did not buy a house b/c they could not afford it w/out a liar loan.

The City negotiated to not give raises, but in lieu, contribute more to their pensions. Something the City never did and are now litigating and trying to get out of doing.

And while many people were making bank during the bubble years in their jobs, these cops continued w/their same pay rate the entire time. And since their hours generally are crap, they didn’t become part time realtors so they can make extra money.

Many of them just stuck it out b/c in their head they’re thinking slow and steady wins the race and when they retire, they will have something to fall back on. Now that may not happen.

But when I think about some of the realtors, mortgage brokers, appraisers, etc, etc and the vast amount of money they made during the bubble years for the minimal amount of work performed, I assure you that hindsight, I would have told those cops to quit their job for greener pastures, particularly if come retirement they will not have what was promised to them.

I guess everyone has their time in the sun. During the dot-com bubble, my cousin was making money hand over fist. Now those jobs are overseas and he is getting by, wishing he didn’t blow it all foolishly.

It is not the cops and firemen’s fault if the City decided to spend the money on a stadium or invest in real estate foolishly, CDOs or whatever else the City risked it on. Yet they are/will be punished for this. And b/c of the City’s financial mismanagement, they will try to suck more money out of the taxpayers any way they can. And if they can’t, they will not hesitate to cut services.

So what happens during the good times is the City takes risks w/the pension of its workers. Then in the bad times, wants to stick it to the workers. During the good times, no ones cares what promises are made. During the bad times, everyone is outraged.

During the good times, everyone thinks it will last forever and no one wants to save for a rainy day, including cities. So now the rainy days are here and everyone wants to take it away from the worker bees.

This is just so typical, I frankly don’t know how someone is willing to agree to such terms.

And I can understand the outrage, b/c I was certainly outraged when CEOs got bonuses during a financial crisis that taxpayers footed the bill for. What was the justification/explanation. It was a contract that was entered into/agreed upon, thus those bonuses must be honored.

The city workers entered into a contract and honored their part. Doesn’t the city have a duty to fulfill the contract?

During the good times the city basically told the workers, “I’ll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.” And the workers were dumb enough to agree. Here it is Tuesday and the city is broke.
That worked out.

Meanwhile, many people made money during the bubble years, spent it lavishly, buying multiple houses, HELOCs for new cars and trips, etc etc. Now living for free. While the city workers are stuck w/basically an IOU that may not materialize.

And during the good times people could have done whatever they wanted w/the money they were making, saving for the future, investing for their retirement. The city workers did not have that option. Their money is “invested” in their pension.

[sdrealtor]

Richechex,
I vehemently disagree that the gist of this thread is “public employees are lazy, overpaid, and anyone can do their jobs.” Sure we have had a couple numbskulls weigh in but the primary oppostion has repeatedly stated we understand they work hard and are well trained professionals. Where we disagree is whether that warrants essentially guaranteed employment with 6 figure incomes and benfits unlike anything anyone in the private sector sees. Furthermore whether there is an adequate supply of potential workers who are willing and able to those positions for less.

[sdrealtor]

Richechex,
I vehemently disagree that the gist of this thread is “public employees are lazy, overpaid, and anyone can do their jobs.” Sure we have had a couple numbskulls weigh in but the primary oppostion has repeatedly stated we understand they work hard and are well trained professionals. Where we disagree is whether that warrants essentially guaranteed employment with 6 figure incomes and benfits unlike anything anyone in the private sector sees. Furthermore whether there is an adequate supply of potential workers who are willing and able to those positions for less.

[sdrealtor]

Richechex,
I vehemently disagree that the gist of this thread is “public employees are lazy, overpaid, and anyone can do their jobs.” Sure we have had a couple numbskulls weigh in but the primary oppostion has repeatedly stated we understand they work hard and are well trained professionals. Where we disagree is whether that warrants essentially guaranteed employment with 6 figure incomes and benfits unlike anything anyone in the private sector sees. Furthermore whether there is an adequate supply of potential workers who are willing and able to those positions for less.

[sdrealtor]

Richechex,
I vehemently disagree that the gist of this thread is “public employees are lazy, overpaid, and anyone can do their jobs.” Sure we have had a couple numbskulls weigh in but the primary oppostion has repeatedly stated we understand they work hard and are well trained professionals. Where we disagree is whether that warrants essentially guaranteed employment with 6 figure incomes and benfits unlike anything anyone in the private sector sees. Furthermore whether there is an adequate supply of potential workers who are willing and able to those positions for less.

[sdrealtor]

Richechex,
I vehemently disagree that the gist of this thread is “public employees are lazy, overpaid, and anyone can do their jobs.” Sure we have had a couple numbskulls weigh in but the primary oppostion has repeatedly stated we understand they work hard and are well trained professionals. Where we disagree is whether that warrants essentially guaranteed employment with 6 figure incomes and benfits unlike anything anyone in the private sector sees. Furthermore whether there is an adequate supply of potential workers who are willing and able to those positions for less.

[GH]

Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?

My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.

Don’t believe me?

I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.

The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.

[GH]

Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?

My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.

Don’t believe me?

I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.

The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.

[GH]

Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?

My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.

Don’t believe me?

I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.

The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.

[GH]

Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?

My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.

Don’t believe me?

I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.

The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.

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