OT: Public pay & benefits

[CA renter]

[quote=jficquette][quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Running speed traps is very dangerous. Also sitting in firehouses for 3 days a week watching TV is scary too. BTW, why do firemen take their fire trucks to Vons to go shopping? Why can’t they take private vehicles?

Military careers are dangerous but don’t command near the pay and benefits. Why do Cops and Fireman make more then their counterparts in the military?[/quote]

Firefighters take their fire engines to Vons because they are **always on duty** 24/7. There are no breaks of any sort — no lunch breaks, no dinner breaks, no bathroom breaks, etc. If they are in the grocery store (or in the shower, or on the toilet, or eating dinner, etc.) and a call comes in, they have to leave what they are doing and respond to the call. You can’t do that in a private vehicle.
—————-

As for the comparison with military personnel, I personally think military personnel are very much underpaid. If we paid them what they are actually worth, we might think twice about engaging in unnecessary wars around the world (usually for the benefit of private interests, BTW).

Still, military personnel who engage in dangerous jobs do actually get compensated fairly well. They also get other benefits like housing, free medical care, insurance, military discounts (at the PX, for instance) that cops and firefighters don’t get.

That being said, I would NEVER say that our military personnel are overcompensated. They need to make much more.
————–

BTW, can we please stop with the “sitting in the firehouse” and “eating doughnuts/running speed traps” nonsense (BTW, you DO realize that many/most officer fatalities occur during traffic stops, don’t you?). It really shows how ignorant people are about what cops and firefighters really do.

[sdrealtor]

[quote=CA renter][quote=Ricechex][quote=faterikcartman]And just another word to the wise: every time your presented with a question to vote for a tax increase to pay for so-called essential services like police and fire you’re being hoodwinked. They couch the question like that so they don’t have to cut spending for other things which you wouldn’t vote for if you were presented the choice.

/quote]

Now, this is quite true. Take a look at Prop J. There is some propaganda. Extra taxes to “retain” math and science teachers. Did you know the entire district bought EVERY 3rd, 6th, and 9th grader a netbook? This from a district that is so short of funds? I would much rather RETAIN the teachers/smaller classroom size, than spend oodles of money on netbooks. The students can bring home the netbooks with them too. I wonder who the district contracted with for that one? Which private company made LOTS of money on those netbooks? I don’t remember voting on that one do you?

No need to blame the teachers either, they had nothing to do with it. When we blame the public servants, (firefighters, police, teachers, etc) it is essentially blaming the grunts that actually DO the job. It is the corruption at the top that is really the problem.[/quote]

Fantastic, and very accurate post![/quote]

I dont see anyone blaming the grunts aorund here, we are blaming the system. Frankly it doesnt matter where the problem lies, what is important is that its a problem.

FWIW, there is only one or two nitwits posting about the “cops and donuts” or “sitting in the firehouse” nonsense. Most of us dont beleive that so lets keep on point here. We arent blaming the public servants and we think they do a good job. We just think they are overcompensated.

As for the transparancy issue, from your earlier post can I infer that you are all for making all compensation to public servants publically available also. Would you agree with that?

[sdrealtor]

[quote=CA renter][quote=Ricechex][quote=faterikcartman]And just another word to the wise: every time your presented with a question to vote for a tax increase to pay for so-called essential services like police and fire you’re being hoodwinked. They couch the question like that so they don’t have to cut spending for other things which you wouldn’t vote for if you were presented the choice.

/quote]

Now, this is quite true. Take a look at Prop J. There is some propaganda. Extra taxes to “retain” math and science teachers. Did you know the entire district bought EVERY 3rd, 6th, and 9th grader a netbook? This from a district that is so short of funds? I would much rather RETAIN the teachers/smaller classroom size, than spend oodles of money on netbooks. The students can bring home the netbooks with them too. I wonder who the district contracted with for that one? Which private company made LOTS of money on those netbooks? I don’t remember voting on that one do you?

No need to blame the teachers either, they had nothing to do with it. When we blame the public servants, (firefighters, police, teachers, etc) it is essentially blaming the grunts that actually DO the job. It is the corruption at the top that is really the problem.[/quote]

Fantastic, and very accurate post![/quote]

I dont see anyone blaming the grunts aorund here, we are blaming the system. Frankly it doesnt matter where the problem lies, what is important is that its a problem.

FWIW, there is only one or two nitwits posting about the “cops and donuts” or “sitting in the firehouse” nonsense. Most of us dont beleive that so lets keep on point here. We arent blaming the public servants and we think they do a good job. We just think they are overcompensated.

As for the transparancy issue, from your earlier post can I infer that you are all for making all compensation to public servants publically available also. Would you agree with that?

[sdrealtor]

[quote=CA renter][quote=Ricechex][quote=faterikcartman]And just another word to the wise: every time your presented with a question to vote for a tax increase to pay for so-called essential services like police and fire you’re being hoodwinked. They couch the question like that so they don’t have to cut spending for other things which you wouldn’t vote for if you were presented the choice.

/quote]

Now, this is quite true. Take a look at Prop J. There is some propaganda. Extra taxes to “retain” math and science teachers. Did you know the entire district bought EVERY 3rd, 6th, and 9th grader a netbook? This from a district that is so short of funds? I would much rather RETAIN the teachers/smaller classroom size, than spend oodles of money on netbooks. The students can bring home the netbooks with them too. I wonder who the district contracted with for that one? Which private company made LOTS of money on those netbooks? I don’t remember voting on that one do you?

No need to blame the teachers either, they had nothing to do with it. When we blame the public servants, (firefighters, police, teachers, etc) it is essentially blaming the grunts that actually DO the job. It is the corruption at the top that is really the problem.[/quote]

Fantastic, and very accurate post![/quote]

I dont see anyone blaming the grunts aorund here, we are blaming the system. Frankly it doesnt matter where the problem lies, what is important is that its a problem.

FWIW, there is only one or two nitwits posting about the “cops and donuts” or “sitting in the firehouse” nonsense. Most of us dont beleive that so lets keep on point here. We arent blaming the public servants and we think they do a good job. We just think they are overcompensated.

As for the transparancy issue, from your earlier post can I infer that you are all for making all compensation to public servants publically available also. Would you agree with that?

[sdrealtor]

[quote=CA renter][quote=Ricechex][quote=faterikcartman]And just another word to the wise: every time your presented with a question to vote for a tax increase to pay for so-called essential services like police and fire you’re being hoodwinked. They couch the question like that so they don’t have to cut spending for other things which you wouldn’t vote for if you were presented the choice.

/quote]

Now, this is quite true. Take a look at Prop J. There is some propaganda. Extra taxes to “retain” math and science teachers. Did you know the entire district bought EVERY 3rd, 6th, and 9th grader a netbook? This from a district that is so short of funds? I would much rather RETAIN the teachers/smaller classroom size, than spend oodles of money on netbooks. The students can bring home the netbooks with them too. I wonder who the district contracted with for that one? Which private company made LOTS of money on those netbooks? I don’t remember voting on that one do you?

No need to blame the teachers either, they had nothing to do with it. When we blame the public servants, (firefighters, police, teachers, etc) it is essentially blaming the grunts that actually DO the job. It is the corruption at the top that is really the problem.[/quote]

Fantastic, and very accurate post![/quote]

I dont see anyone blaming the grunts aorund here, we are blaming the system. Frankly it doesnt matter where the problem lies, what is important is that its a problem.

FWIW, there is only one or two nitwits posting about the “cops and donuts” or “sitting in the firehouse” nonsense. Most of us dont beleive that so lets keep on point here. We arent blaming the public servants and we think they do a good job. We just think they are overcompensated.

As for the transparancy issue, from your earlier post can I infer that you are all for making all compensation to public servants publically available also. Would you agree with that?

[sdrealtor]

[quote=CA renter][quote=Ricechex][quote=faterikcartman]And just another word to the wise: every time your presented with a question to vote for a tax increase to pay for so-called essential services like police and fire you’re being hoodwinked. They couch the question like that so they don’t have to cut spending for other things which you wouldn’t vote for if you were presented the choice.

/quote]

Now, this is quite true. Take a look at Prop J. There is some propaganda. Extra taxes to “retain” math and science teachers. Did you know the entire district bought EVERY 3rd, 6th, and 9th grader a netbook? This from a district that is so short of funds? I would much rather RETAIN the teachers/smaller classroom size, than spend oodles of money on netbooks. The students can bring home the netbooks with them too. I wonder who the district contracted with for that one? Which private company made LOTS of money on those netbooks? I don’t remember voting on that one do you?

No need to blame the teachers either, they had nothing to do with it. When we blame the public servants, (firefighters, police, teachers, etc) it is essentially blaming the grunts that actually DO the job. It is the corruption at the top that is really the problem.[/quote]

Fantastic, and very accurate post![/quote]

I dont see anyone blaming the grunts aorund here, we are blaming the system. Frankly it doesnt matter where the problem lies, what is important is that its a problem.

FWIW, there is only one or two nitwits posting about the “cops and donuts” or “sitting in the firehouse” nonsense. Most of us dont beleive that so lets keep on point here. We arent blaming the public servants and we think they do a good job. We just think they are overcompensated.

As for the transparancy issue, from your earlier post can I infer that you are all for making all compensation to public servants publically available also. Would you agree with that?

[Ricechex]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=CA renter][quote=Ricechex][quote=faterikcartman]And just another word to the wise: every time your presented with a question to vote for a tax increase to pay for so-called essential services like police and fire you’re being hoodwinked. They couch the question like that so they don’t have to cut spending for other things which you wouldn’t vote for if you were presented the choice.

/quote]

Now, this is quite true. Take a look at Prop J. There is some propaganda. Extra taxes to “retain” math and science teachers. Did you know the entire district bought EVERY 3rd, 6th, and 9th grader a netbook? This from a district that is so short of funds? I would much rather RETAIN the teachers/smaller classroom size, than spend oodles of money on netbooks. The students can bring home the netbooks with them too. I wonder who the district contracted with for that one? Which private company made LOTS of money on those netbooks? I don’t remember voting on that one do you?

No need to blame the teachers either, they had nothing to do with it. When we blame the public servants, (firefighters, police, teachers, etc) it is essentially blaming the grunts that actually DO the job. It is the corruption at the top that is really the problem.[/quote]

Fantastic, and very accurate post![/quote]

I dont see anyone blaming the grunts aorund here, we are blaming the system. Frankly it doesnt matter where the problem lies, what is important is that its a problem.

FWIW, there is only one or two nitwits posting about the “cops and donuts” or “sitting in the firehouse” nonsense. Most of us dont beleive that so lets keep on point here. We arent blaming the public servants and we think they do a good job. We just think they are overcompensated.

As for the transparancy issue, from your earlier post can I infer that you are all for making all compensation to public servants publically available also. Would you agree with that?[/quote]

Certainly. The federal government salaries are transparent. Ask a gov employee what their grade level is: GS-11, GS-12, etc. Google “Federal Salary Schedule 2010” and choose the locality, and you will get a range of what the pay is. If you know how many years the person has been in service, and how long at that grade level, you can then identify exactly their salary.

Though it may not be directly expressed the gist of these threads are “public employees are lazy, overpaid, and anyone can do their jobs.” It is simply not true.

[Ricechex]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=CA renter][quote=Ricechex][quote=faterikcartman]And just another word to the wise: every time your presented with a question to vote for a tax increase to pay for so-called essential services like police and fire you’re being hoodwinked. They couch the question like that so they don’t have to cut spending for other things which you wouldn’t vote for if you were presented the choice.

/quote]

Now, this is quite true. Take a look at Prop J. There is some propaganda. Extra taxes to “retain” math and science teachers. Did you know the entire district bought EVERY 3rd, 6th, and 9th grader a netbook? This from a district that is so short of funds? I would much rather RETAIN the teachers/smaller classroom size, than spend oodles of money on netbooks. The students can bring home the netbooks with them too. I wonder who the district contracted with for that one? Which private company made LOTS of money on those netbooks? I don’t remember voting on that one do you?

No need to blame the teachers either, they had nothing to do with it. When we blame the public servants, (firefighters, police, teachers, etc) it is essentially blaming the grunts that actually DO the job. It is the corruption at the top that is really the problem.[/quote]

Fantastic, and very accurate post![/quote]

I dont see anyone blaming the grunts aorund here, we are blaming the system. Frankly it doesnt matter where the problem lies, what is important is that its a problem.

FWIW, there is only one or two nitwits posting about the “cops and donuts” or “sitting in the firehouse” nonsense. Most of us dont beleive that so lets keep on point here. We arent blaming the public servants and we think they do a good job. We just think they are overcompensated.

As for the transparancy issue, from your earlier post can I infer that you are all for making all compensation to public servants publically available also. Would you agree with that?[/quote]

Certainly. The federal government salaries are transparent. Ask a gov employee what their grade level is: GS-11, GS-12, etc. Google “Federal Salary Schedule 2010” and choose the locality, and you will get a range of what the pay is. If you know how many years the person has been in service, and how long at that grade level, you can then identify exactly their salary.

Though it may not be directly expressed the gist of these threads are “public employees are lazy, overpaid, and anyone can do their jobs.” It is simply not true.

[Ricechex]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=CA renter][quote=Ricechex][quote=faterikcartman]And just another word to the wise: every time your presented with a question to vote for a tax increase to pay for so-called essential services like police and fire you’re being hoodwinked. They couch the question like that so they don’t have to cut spending for other things which you wouldn’t vote for if you were presented the choice.

/quote]

Now, this is quite true. Take a look at Prop J. There is some propaganda. Extra taxes to “retain” math and science teachers. Did you know the entire district bought EVERY 3rd, 6th, and 9th grader a netbook? This from a district that is so short of funds? I would much rather RETAIN the teachers/smaller classroom size, than spend oodles of money on netbooks. The students can bring home the netbooks with them too. I wonder who the district contracted with for that one? Which private company made LOTS of money on those netbooks? I don’t remember voting on that one do you?

No need to blame the teachers either, they had nothing to do with it. When we blame the public servants, (firefighters, police, teachers, etc) it is essentially blaming the grunts that actually DO the job. It is the corruption at the top that is really the problem.[/quote]

Fantastic, and very accurate post![/quote]

I dont see anyone blaming the grunts aorund here, we are blaming the system. Frankly it doesnt matter where the problem lies, what is important is that its a problem.

FWIW, there is only one or two nitwits posting about the “cops and donuts” or “sitting in the firehouse” nonsense. Most of us dont beleive that so lets keep on point here. We arent blaming the public servants and we think they do a good job. We just think they are overcompensated.

As for the transparancy issue, from your earlier post can I infer that you are all for making all compensation to public servants publically available also. Would you agree with that?[/quote]

Certainly. The federal government salaries are transparent. Ask a gov employee what their grade level is: GS-11, GS-12, etc. Google “Federal Salary Schedule 2010” and choose the locality, and you will get a range of what the pay is. If you know how many years the person has been in service, and how long at that grade level, you can then identify exactly their salary.

Though it may not be directly expressed the gist of these threads are “public employees are lazy, overpaid, and anyone can do their jobs.” It is simply not true.

[Ricechex]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=CA renter][quote=Ricechex][quote=faterikcartman]And just another word to the wise: every time your presented with a question to vote for a tax increase to pay for so-called essential services like police and fire you’re being hoodwinked. They couch the question like that so they don’t have to cut spending for other things which you wouldn’t vote for if you were presented the choice.

/quote]

Now, this is quite true. Take a look at Prop J. There is some propaganda. Extra taxes to “retain” math and science teachers. Did you know the entire district bought EVERY 3rd, 6th, and 9th grader a netbook? This from a district that is so short of funds? I would much rather RETAIN the teachers/smaller classroom size, than spend oodles of money on netbooks. The students can bring home the netbooks with them too. I wonder who the district contracted with for that one? Which private company made LOTS of money on those netbooks? I don’t remember voting on that one do you?

No need to blame the teachers either, they had nothing to do with it. When we blame the public servants, (firefighters, police, teachers, etc) it is essentially blaming the grunts that actually DO the job. It is the corruption at the top that is really the problem.[/quote]

Fantastic, and very accurate post![/quote]

I dont see anyone blaming the grunts aorund here, we are blaming the system. Frankly it doesnt matter where the problem lies, what is important is that its a problem.

FWIW, there is only one or two nitwits posting about the “cops and donuts” or “sitting in the firehouse” nonsense. Most of us dont beleive that so lets keep on point here. We arent blaming the public servants and we think they do a good job. We just think they are overcompensated.

As for the transparancy issue, from your earlier post can I infer that you are all for making all compensation to public servants publically available also. Would you agree with that?[/quote]

Certainly. The federal government salaries are transparent. Ask a gov employee what their grade level is: GS-11, GS-12, etc. Google “Federal Salary Schedule 2010” and choose the locality, and you will get a range of what the pay is. If you know how many years the person has been in service, and how long at that grade level, you can then identify exactly their salary.

Though it may not be directly expressed the gist of these threads are “public employees are lazy, overpaid, and anyone can do their jobs.” It is simply not true.

[Ricechex]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=CA renter][quote=Ricechex][quote=faterikcartman]And just another word to the wise: every time your presented with a question to vote for a tax increase to pay for so-called essential services like police and fire you’re being hoodwinked. They couch the question like that so they don’t have to cut spending for other things which you wouldn’t vote for if you were presented the choice.

/quote]

Now, this is quite true. Take a look at Prop J. There is some propaganda. Extra taxes to “retain” math and science teachers. Did you know the entire district bought EVERY 3rd, 6th, and 9th grader a netbook? This from a district that is so short of funds? I would much rather RETAIN the teachers/smaller classroom size, than spend oodles of money on netbooks. The students can bring home the netbooks with them too. I wonder who the district contracted with for that one? Which private company made LOTS of money on those netbooks? I don’t remember voting on that one do you?

No need to blame the teachers either, they had nothing to do with it. When we blame the public servants, (firefighters, police, teachers, etc) it is essentially blaming the grunts that actually DO the job. It is the corruption at the top that is really the problem.[/quote]

Fantastic, and very accurate post![/quote]

I dont see anyone blaming the grunts aorund here, we are blaming the system. Frankly it doesnt matter where the problem lies, what is important is that its a problem.

FWIW, there is only one or two nitwits posting about the “cops and donuts” or “sitting in the firehouse” nonsense. Most of us dont beleive that so lets keep on point here. We arent blaming the public servants and we think they do a good job. We just think they are overcompensated.

As for the transparancy issue, from your earlier post can I infer that you are all for making all compensation to public servants publically available also. Would you agree with that?[/quote]

Certainly. The federal government salaries are transparent. Ask a gov employee what their grade level is: GS-11, GS-12, etc. Google “Federal Salary Schedule 2010” and choose the locality, and you will get a range of what the pay is. If you know how many years the person has been in service, and how long at that grade level, you can then identify exactly their salary.

Though it may not be directly expressed the gist of these threads are “public employees are lazy, overpaid, and anyone can do their jobs.” It is simply not true.

[Coronita]

[quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.

[Coronita]

[quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.

[Coronita]

[quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.

[Coronita]

[quote=jpinpb]Just curious, how many of you would be willing to take a 20% cut in your pay? And how many of you risk your lives in your job?[/quote]

Jpinpb… Most of us already do face that threat or have faced that threat if the company/business we work for isn’t doing well or even if doing well, isn’t performing optimum….

The choices are pretty simple.

1)Put up with the pay cut/layoff
or
2)Find another job that pays better.

Again, this is the problem. When the bubble period was here and public sector was having a tough time to get people, perks went up alone with the rest of the other industry…Now that the economy is contracting, there is no revision down, despite that the economy/government budgets cannot sustain these levels of benefits. Unless folks want to pay more taxes (which would only be a temporary solution anyway), there is way around this…The governments cannot afford to be paying these benefits. I don’t see what the big issue here is.. The entire economy is contracting. There are no sacred cows. Private and public sectors both need to scale appropriately.

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