OT: Public pay & benefits

[faterikcartman]

[quote=teaboy]What is a fair and equitable rate of pay & benefits for public employees, compared with what people make in the private sector?

tb[/quote]

The fair and equitable rate is the least amount the public can get away with. That means the lowest rate they could pay and still fill the positions.

Frankly, most public service stinks compared to the private sector.

And I have ZERO doubt that we could pay many public service positions much less and still fill them readily — with the same quality employee.

For example, I would offer no pension whatsoever to public employees and I’ve little doubt those positions would all be filled. If not, pay them a little more and it would still be cheaper.

It is astounding that we pay some people 96% of their highest salary/average of last three months for the rest of their lives. Madness.

People need to go back and read Steinbeck’s “The Grapes of Wrath” you’ll work like your life depends on it when it does. The fact that we have 10% official unemployment, actual much higher, and we’re talking about admitting potentially 100 million unskilled workers (learn about chain migration rules) because there are “jobs Americans just won’t do” screams to anyone who can recognize that the emperor is naked that unemployment benefits and other “social safeguards” are just too cushy.

Jerry Doyle said it well the other night: if you give people 100 weeks of unemployment, most aren’t going to start looking for a job until week 99. If you give them 150 they’ll start looking in week 149.

Cut public pensions out of the picture. Offer rock bottom salaries. Start there, and only increase AS NECESSARY.

But if you’re paying people to sit on their arse and feeding them, don’t expect folks to line up around the corner.

The old adage is give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish, feed him for a lifetime. Well no one is going to bother learning to fish if they’re handing them out for free around the corner.

Obviously the 48% of tax filers who are net takers rather than payers have little disincentive to claim public employees, especially the sacred police, fire, and teacher groups, all deserve the absolute best. The rest of us who will soon be an irreversible minority who work as slaves to fund this largess are likely to be more practical.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]I may be wrong but from my experience cops/fireman seem to come from two primary sources. Families that have a history in that profession and the military. I dont think the average person knows what kind of compensation cops/fireman get. I had absolutely no idea until I did short sales for 3 different fireman and saw their tax returns. They made close to double what I expected. I always saw the published base salaries and figured that was what they made not realizing that overtime was so prevalent and lucrative. When I asked if it was unusual all of them told me that the base salaries are nowhere near what anyone in their profession earns. I had no idea and dont think the vast majority of the public does either.

As for the long hours, in the private sector most higher paid individuals arent hourly and eligible for O/T. In the private sector many employees get on an airplane Sunday Night/Monday morning and come back Friday night. They are away from their families even longer hours and its just part of the job description to eat dinner alone and to spend your nights alone in a hotel.

I dont beleive privatizing is the answer but think compensation of the public sector should be more transparent. I hear lots of talk about making RE transactions transparent. I would like to see the total compensation of all public sector employees who our tax dollars pay made compeltely transparent also. I think there would be quite a lot of outrage.[/quote]

A firefighter’s standard workweek is 56 hours/week. The compensation numbers you see without “overtime” are for these 56 hours/week. Overtime is in addition to this, and is the standard 1 1/2 times regular pay. The reason they seem to make so much is because some of them *not all, or even most of them* work tremendous numbers of hours. I know some firefighters who’ve worked on wildland fires for months at a time. The majority of overtime for most firefighters is earned during fire season. When was the last time you or any of these private-sector “businessmen” were battling fires with heat in the hundreds of degrees with hot gear on and no breathing apparatus (maybe a mask, but it gets clogged up with ashes, so they tend not to use them most of the time)? Would anyone in the private sector work those hours, and in those conditions, for free? I don’t think so.

What people don’t seem to understand is that there is no room for absentee employees in emergency services (or teaching, for that matter). When you call in sick, you’re not just leaving an empty desk at work. These positions need to be fully staffed at all times; that’s why there is so much overtime.

BTW, I’d be willing to bet big money that the “businessmen” who are away from their families 24/5 make more money than firefighters, and if they don’t, they won’t be doing those jobs for very long.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]I may be wrong but from my experience cops/fireman seem to come from two primary sources. Families that have a history in that profession and the military. I dont think the average person knows what kind of compensation cops/fireman get. I had absolutely no idea until I did short sales for 3 different fireman and saw their tax returns. They made close to double what I expected. I always saw the published base salaries and figured that was what they made not realizing that overtime was so prevalent and lucrative. When I asked if it was unusual all of them told me that the base salaries are nowhere near what anyone in their profession earns. I had no idea and dont think the vast majority of the public does either.

As for the long hours, in the private sector most higher paid individuals arent hourly and eligible for O/T. In the private sector many employees get on an airplane Sunday Night/Monday morning and come back Friday night. They are away from their families even longer hours and its just part of the job description to eat dinner alone and to spend your nights alone in a hotel.

I dont beleive privatizing is the answer but think compensation of the public sector should be more transparent. I hear lots of talk about making RE transactions transparent. I would like to see the total compensation of all public sector employees who our tax dollars pay made compeltely transparent also. I think there would be quite a lot of outrage.[/quote]

A firefighter’s standard workweek is 56 hours/week. The compensation numbers you see without “overtime” are for these 56 hours/week. Overtime is in addition to this, and is the standard 1 1/2 times regular pay. The reason they seem to make so much is because some of them *not all, or even most of them* work tremendous numbers of hours. I know some firefighters who’ve worked on wildland fires for months at a time. The majority of overtime for most firefighters is earned during fire season. When was the last time you or any of these private-sector “businessmen” were battling fires with heat in the hundreds of degrees with hot gear on and no breathing apparatus (maybe a mask, but it gets clogged up with ashes, so they tend not to use them most of the time)? Would anyone in the private sector work those hours, and in those conditions, for free? I don’t think so.

What people don’t seem to understand is that there is no room for absentee employees in emergency services (or teaching, for that matter). When you call in sick, you’re not just leaving an empty desk at work. These positions need to be fully staffed at all times; that’s why there is so much overtime.

BTW, I’d be willing to bet big money that the “businessmen” who are away from their families 24/5 make more money than firefighters, and if they don’t, they won’t be doing those jobs for very long.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]I may be wrong but from my experience cops/fireman seem to come from two primary sources. Families that have a history in that profession and the military. I dont think the average person knows what kind of compensation cops/fireman get. I had absolutely no idea until I did short sales for 3 different fireman and saw their tax returns. They made close to double what I expected. I always saw the published base salaries and figured that was what they made not realizing that overtime was so prevalent and lucrative. When I asked if it was unusual all of them told me that the base salaries are nowhere near what anyone in their profession earns. I had no idea and dont think the vast majority of the public does either.

As for the long hours, in the private sector most higher paid individuals arent hourly and eligible for O/T. In the private sector many employees get on an airplane Sunday Night/Monday morning and come back Friday night. They are away from their families even longer hours and its just part of the job description to eat dinner alone and to spend your nights alone in a hotel.

I dont beleive privatizing is the answer but think compensation of the public sector should be more transparent. I hear lots of talk about making RE transactions transparent. I would like to see the total compensation of all public sector employees who our tax dollars pay made compeltely transparent also. I think there would be quite a lot of outrage.[/quote]

A firefighter’s standard workweek is 56 hours/week. The compensation numbers you see without “overtime” are for these 56 hours/week. Overtime is in addition to this, and is the standard 1 1/2 times regular pay. The reason they seem to make so much is because some of them *not all, or even most of them* work tremendous numbers of hours. I know some firefighters who’ve worked on wildland fires for months at a time. The majority of overtime for most firefighters is earned during fire season. When was the last time you or any of these private-sector “businessmen” were battling fires with heat in the hundreds of degrees with hot gear on and no breathing apparatus (maybe a mask, but it gets clogged up with ashes, so they tend not to use them most of the time)? Would anyone in the private sector work those hours, and in those conditions, for free? I don’t think so.

What people don’t seem to understand is that there is no room for absentee employees in emergency services (or teaching, for that matter). When you call in sick, you’re not just leaving an empty desk at work. These positions need to be fully staffed at all times; that’s why there is so much overtime.

BTW, I’d be willing to bet big money that the “businessmen” who are away from their families 24/5 make more money than firefighters, and if they don’t, they won’t be doing those jobs for very long.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]I may be wrong but from my experience cops/fireman seem to come from two primary sources. Families that have a history in that profession and the military. I dont think the average person knows what kind of compensation cops/fireman get. I had absolutely no idea until I did short sales for 3 different fireman and saw their tax returns. They made close to double what I expected. I always saw the published base salaries and figured that was what they made not realizing that overtime was so prevalent and lucrative. When I asked if it was unusual all of them told me that the base salaries are nowhere near what anyone in their profession earns. I had no idea and dont think the vast majority of the public does either.

As for the long hours, in the private sector most higher paid individuals arent hourly and eligible for O/T. In the private sector many employees get on an airplane Sunday Night/Monday morning and come back Friday night. They are away from their families even longer hours and its just part of the job description to eat dinner alone and to spend your nights alone in a hotel.

I dont beleive privatizing is the answer but think compensation of the public sector should be more transparent. I hear lots of talk about making RE transactions transparent. I would like to see the total compensation of all public sector employees who our tax dollars pay made compeltely transparent also. I think there would be quite a lot of outrage.[/quote]

A firefighter’s standard workweek is 56 hours/week. The compensation numbers you see without “overtime” are for these 56 hours/week. Overtime is in addition to this, and is the standard 1 1/2 times regular pay. The reason they seem to make so much is because some of them *not all, or even most of them* work tremendous numbers of hours. I know some firefighters who’ve worked on wildland fires for months at a time. The majority of overtime for most firefighters is earned during fire season. When was the last time you or any of these private-sector “businessmen” were battling fires with heat in the hundreds of degrees with hot gear on and no breathing apparatus (maybe a mask, but it gets clogged up with ashes, so they tend not to use them most of the time)? Would anyone in the private sector work those hours, and in those conditions, for free? I don’t think so.

What people don’t seem to understand is that there is no room for absentee employees in emergency services (or teaching, for that matter). When you call in sick, you’re not just leaving an empty desk at work. These positions need to be fully staffed at all times; that’s why there is so much overtime.

BTW, I’d be willing to bet big money that the “businessmen” who are away from their families 24/5 make more money than firefighters, and if they don’t, they won’t be doing those jobs for very long.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]I may be wrong but from my experience cops/fireman seem to come from two primary sources. Families that have a history in that profession and the military. I dont think the average person knows what kind of compensation cops/fireman get. I had absolutely no idea until I did short sales for 3 different fireman and saw their tax returns. They made close to double what I expected. I always saw the published base salaries and figured that was what they made not realizing that overtime was so prevalent and lucrative. When I asked if it was unusual all of them told me that the base salaries are nowhere near what anyone in their profession earns. I had no idea and dont think the vast majority of the public does either.

As for the long hours, in the private sector most higher paid individuals arent hourly and eligible for O/T. In the private sector many employees get on an airplane Sunday Night/Monday morning and come back Friday night. They are away from their families even longer hours and its just part of the job description to eat dinner alone and to spend your nights alone in a hotel.

I dont beleive privatizing is the answer but think compensation of the public sector should be more transparent. I hear lots of talk about making RE transactions transparent. I would like to see the total compensation of all public sector employees who our tax dollars pay made compeltely transparent also. I think there would be quite a lot of outrage.[/quote]

A firefighter’s standard workweek is 56 hours/week. The compensation numbers you see without “overtime” are for these 56 hours/week. Overtime is in addition to this, and is the standard 1 1/2 times regular pay. The reason they seem to make so much is because some of them *not all, or even most of them* work tremendous numbers of hours. I know some firefighters who’ve worked on wildland fires for months at a time. The majority of overtime for most firefighters is earned during fire season. When was the last time you or any of these private-sector “businessmen” were battling fires with heat in the hundreds of degrees with hot gear on and no breathing apparatus (maybe a mask, but it gets clogged up with ashes, so they tend not to use them most of the time)? Would anyone in the private sector work those hours, and in those conditions, for free? I don’t think so.

What people don’t seem to understand is that there is no room for absentee employees in emergency services (or teaching, for that matter). When you call in sick, you’re not just leaving an empty desk at work. These positions need to be fully staffed at all times; that’s why there is so much overtime.

BTW, I’d be willing to bet big money that the “businessmen” who are away from their families 24/5 make more money than firefighters, and if they don’t, they won’t be doing those jobs for very long.

[paramount]

In a pinch I could function as a deputy.

However, I doubt the entire SDPD (Deputies) could satisfactorily perform my job.

Takes many years to learn my craft.

[paramount]

In a pinch I could function as a deputy.

However, I doubt the entire SDPD (Deputies) could satisfactorily perform my job.

Takes many years to learn my craft.

[paramount]

In a pinch I could function as a deputy.

However, I doubt the entire SDPD (Deputies) could satisfactorily perform my job.

Takes many years to learn my craft.

[paramount]

In a pinch I could function as a deputy.

However, I doubt the entire SDPD (Deputies) could satisfactorily perform my job.

Takes many years to learn my craft.

[paramount]

In a pinch I could function as a deputy.

However, I doubt the entire SDPD (Deputies) could satisfactorily perform my job.

Takes many years to learn my craft.

[Ricechex]

Here we go again….if you think privatization of public services will be a great boon to you, let me tell you what will happen.

#1: If the government saves any money with privatizing it is NOT passed on to the taxpayer. They hire more contractors to do more of the same. The pay is low, the turnover is high, and there are all kinds of snafus (people get fired after 6 months as it turns out they are not US citizens, and various other problems of not being qualified) Guess what? We are still paying for this—it is out of a “different budget.”

#2: The contractor makes the bucks, becomes wealthy on the taxpayers money. (Prisons, anyone? Those are mostly privatized)

#3: From what I have seen, the contractors because they pay so little/poor benes/no pensions (after all the contract recipient needs to line his pockets) hires substandard employees. The government has very little supervision over the contractors and amazingly when a bad contractor is up for renewal—they get the contract again! It is just easier for administration than to choose a new company. So bad work gets rewarded.

Most government workers are not the abusers that get noted in the media.

[Ricechex]

Here we go again….if you think privatization of public services will be a great boon to you, let me tell you what will happen.

#1: If the government saves any money with privatizing it is NOT passed on to the taxpayer. They hire more contractors to do more of the same. The pay is low, the turnover is high, and there are all kinds of snafus (people get fired after 6 months as it turns out they are not US citizens, and various other problems of not being qualified) Guess what? We are still paying for this—it is out of a “different budget.”

#2: The contractor makes the bucks, becomes wealthy on the taxpayers money. (Prisons, anyone? Those are mostly privatized)

#3: From what I have seen, the contractors because they pay so little/poor benes/no pensions (after all the contract recipient needs to line his pockets) hires substandard employees. The government has very little supervision over the contractors and amazingly when a bad contractor is up for renewal—they get the contract again! It is just easier for administration than to choose a new company. So bad work gets rewarded.

Most government workers are not the abusers that get noted in the media.

[Ricechex]

Here we go again….if you think privatization of public services will be a great boon to you, let me tell you what will happen.

#1: If the government saves any money with privatizing it is NOT passed on to the taxpayer. They hire more contractors to do more of the same. The pay is low, the turnover is high, and there are all kinds of snafus (people get fired after 6 months as it turns out they are not US citizens, and various other problems of not being qualified) Guess what? We are still paying for this—it is out of a “different budget.”

#2: The contractor makes the bucks, becomes wealthy on the taxpayers money. (Prisons, anyone? Those are mostly privatized)

#3: From what I have seen, the contractors because they pay so little/poor benes/no pensions (after all the contract recipient needs to line his pockets) hires substandard employees. The government has very little supervision over the contractors and amazingly when a bad contractor is up for renewal—they get the contract again! It is just easier for administration than to choose a new company. So bad work gets rewarded.

Most government workers are not the abusers that get noted in the media.

[Ricechex]

Here we go again….if you think privatization of public services will be a great boon to you, let me tell you what will happen.

#1: If the government saves any money with privatizing it is NOT passed on to the taxpayer. They hire more contractors to do more of the same. The pay is low, the turnover is high, and there are all kinds of snafus (people get fired after 6 months as it turns out they are not US citizens, and various other problems of not being qualified) Guess what? We are still paying for this—it is out of a “different budget.”

#2: The contractor makes the bucks, becomes wealthy on the taxpayers money. (Prisons, anyone? Those are mostly privatized)

#3: From what I have seen, the contractors because they pay so little/poor benes/no pensions (after all the contract recipient needs to line his pockets) hires substandard employees. The government has very little supervision over the contractors and amazingly when a bad contractor is up for renewal—they get the contract again! It is just easier for administration than to choose a new company. So bad work gets rewarded.

Most government workers are not the abusers that get noted in the media.

[Author]

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