OT: Public pay & benefits

[meadandale]

Salary may seem low…but they get a combined 29 days off annually (vacation and holidays) as well as a pension plan and family medical/dental. Those benefits are way more generous than someone starting out in the private sector.

[sdrealtor]

CAR
Enough with the strawmen arguments. There werent any attacks or myths being spread here and you are being overly defensive. This isnt about comparing firefighters with realtors, mortgage brokers or flippers. Its about comparing their wages with everyday working people.

If you want an extreme, how about comparing them with Primary Care Physicians who make similar money, put in similar hours and dont get all those benfits. let us not forget that they also invest over 6 figures into education and over 10 years into training (college, med school and residencies)with little or no compensation or benefits?

As for comparing other cities to SD, I’d would suggest cities like Pittsburgh, baltimore, indianapolis, Cleveland, Kansas City, St Louis, Milwakee and places like that. Cities large enough to support pro sports franchises but not major metro areas.

No one made comments about firemen sitting in recliners. I asked how much time is spent doing station duty? I know that involves maintaining equipment, training, doing dispatch work, teaching etc. Its work and we get that. It just isnt high risk dangerous work.

I also asked what percentage of fireman put in the substantial overtime you pointed out which brings their earning far above their base salaries? These ar ehonest questions and I’m not bashing fireman, I just think they are way overpaid.

No one is spreading myths or misinformation here, we asked honest questions and you have chosen not to answer the questions resorting to strawman arguments. Thats all it is.

If you want to talk about myths being spread how about your statement that real estate people often make more money than public sector folks doing less work. The stats just dont bear fruit on that. Over 80% of the folks in this business make less than $35K per year as self employed workers with no benefits. With few exceptions, the small percentage of people making real money in this business work very very hard.

[sdrealtor]

CAR
Enough with the strawmen arguments. There werent any attacks or myths being spread here and you are being overly defensive. This isnt about comparing firefighters with realtors, mortgage brokers or flippers. Its about comparing their wages with everyday working people.

If you want an extreme, how about comparing them with Primary Care Physicians who make similar money, put in similar hours and dont get all those benfits. let us not forget that they also invest over 6 figures into education and over 10 years into training (college, med school and residencies)with little or no compensation or benefits?

As for comparing other cities to SD, I’d would suggest cities like Pittsburgh, baltimore, indianapolis, Cleveland, Kansas City, St Louis, Milwakee and places like that. Cities large enough to support pro sports franchises but not major metro areas.

No one made comments about firemen sitting in recliners. I asked how much time is spent doing station duty? I know that involves maintaining equipment, training, doing dispatch work, teaching etc. Its work and we get that. It just isnt high risk dangerous work.

I also asked what percentage of fireman put in the substantial overtime you pointed out which brings their earning far above their base salaries? These ar ehonest questions and I’m not bashing fireman, I just think they are way overpaid.

No one is spreading myths or misinformation here, we asked honest questions and you have chosen not to answer the questions resorting to strawman arguments. Thats all it is.

If you want to talk about myths being spread how about your statement that real estate people often make more money than public sector folks doing less work. The stats just dont bear fruit on that. Over 80% of the folks in this business make less than $35K per year as self employed workers with no benefits. With few exceptions, the small percentage of people making real money in this business work very very hard.

[sdrealtor]

CAR
Enough with the strawmen arguments. There werent any attacks or myths being spread here and you are being overly defensive. This isnt about comparing firefighters with realtors, mortgage brokers or flippers. Its about comparing their wages with everyday working people.

If you want an extreme, how about comparing them with Primary Care Physicians who make similar money, put in similar hours and dont get all those benfits. let us not forget that they also invest over 6 figures into education and over 10 years into training (college, med school and residencies)with little or no compensation or benefits?

As for comparing other cities to SD, I’d would suggest cities like Pittsburgh, baltimore, indianapolis, Cleveland, Kansas City, St Louis, Milwakee and places like that. Cities large enough to support pro sports franchises but not major metro areas.

No one made comments about firemen sitting in recliners. I asked how much time is spent doing station duty? I know that involves maintaining equipment, training, doing dispatch work, teaching etc. Its work and we get that. It just isnt high risk dangerous work.

I also asked what percentage of fireman put in the substantial overtime you pointed out which brings their earning far above their base salaries? These ar ehonest questions and I’m not bashing fireman, I just think they are way overpaid.

No one is spreading myths or misinformation here, we asked honest questions and you have chosen not to answer the questions resorting to strawman arguments. Thats all it is.

If you want to talk about myths being spread how about your statement that real estate people often make more money than public sector folks doing less work. The stats just dont bear fruit on that. Over 80% of the folks in this business make less than $35K per year as self employed workers with no benefits. With few exceptions, the small percentage of people making real money in this business work very very hard.

[sdrealtor]

CAR
Enough with the strawmen arguments. There werent any attacks or myths being spread here and you are being overly defensive. This isnt about comparing firefighters with realtors, mortgage brokers or flippers. Its about comparing their wages with everyday working people.

If you want an extreme, how about comparing them with Primary Care Physicians who make similar money, put in similar hours and dont get all those benfits. let us not forget that they also invest over 6 figures into education and over 10 years into training (college, med school and residencies)with little or no compensation or benefits?

As for comparing other cities to SD, I’d would suggest cities like Pittsburgh, baltimore, indianapolis, Cleveland, Kansas City, St Louis, Milwakee and places like that. Cities large enough to support pro sports franchises but not major metro areas.

No one made comments about firemen sitting in recliners. I asked how much time is spent doing station duty? I know that involves maintaining equipment, training, doing dispatch work, teaching etc. Its work and we get that. It just isnt high risk dangerous work.

I also asked what percentage of fireman put in the substantial overtime you pointed out which brings their earning far above their base salaries? These ar ehonest questions and I’m not bashing fireman, I just think they are way overpaid.

No one is spreading myths or misinformation here, we asked honest questions and you have chosen not to answer the questions resorting to strawman arguments. Thats all it is.

If you want to talk about myths being spread how about your statement that real estate people often make more money than public sector folks doing less work. The stats just dont bear fruit on that. Over 80% of the folks in this business make less than $35K per year as self employed workers with no benefits. With few exceptions, the small percentage of people making real money in this business work very very hard.

[sdrealtor]

CAR
Enough with the strawmen arguments. There werent any attacks or myths being spread here and you are being overly defensive. This isnt about comparing firefighters with realtors, mortgage brokers or flippers. Its about comparing their wages with everyday working people.

If you want an extreme, how about comparing them with Primary Care Physicians who make similar money, put in similar hours and dont get all those benfits. let us not forget that they also invest over 6 figures into education and over 10 years into training (college, med school and residencies)with little or no compensation or benefits?

As for comparing other cities to SD, I’d would suggest cities like Pittsburgh, baltimore, indianapolis, Cleveland, Kansas City, St Louis, Milwakee and places like that. Cities large enough to support pro sports franchises but not major metro areas.

No one made comments about firemen sitting in recliners. I asked how much time is spent doing station duty? I know that involves maintaining equipment, training, doing dispatch work, teaching etc. Its work and we get that. It just isnt high risk dangerous work.

I also asked what percentage of fireman put in the substantial overtime you pointed out which brings their earning far above their base salaries? These ar ehonest questions and I’m not bashing fireman, I just think they are way overpaid.

No one is spreading myths or misinformation here, we asked honest questions and you have chosen not to answer the questions resorting to strawman arguments. Thats all it is.

If you want to talk about myths being spread how about your statement that real estate people often make more money than public sector folks doing less work. The stats just dont bear fruit on that. Over 80% of the folks in this business make less than $35K per year as self employed workers with no benefits. With few exceptions, the small percentage of people making real money in this business work very very hard.

[jficquette]

CA Renter,

Those numbers for cost per pupil do not include pension costs as far as I know.

John

[jficquette]

CA Renter,

Those numbers for cost per pupil do not include pension costs as far as I know.

John

[jficquette]

CA Renter,

Those numbers for cost per pupil do not include pension costs as far as I know.

John

[jficquette]

CA Renter,

Those numbers for cost per pupil do not include pension costs as far as I know.

John

[jficquette]

CA Renter,

Those numbers for cost per pupil do not include pension costs as far as I know.

John

[Anonymous]

OK, I agree with what CAR is saying and find it disturbing that Piggs (at least some) would be buying all the hype from media. This is and always has been a problem and misdirection of scapegoating. Let’s take the focus off the private sector and oodles of money the gov’t has thrown at them and get everybody in an uproar about what firefighters make. Ohhh the unions too! Those fierce mobsters.
I see people in unions all over the world and mostly (I say mostly because there are those unions out there that work the system and need to be reined in, but mostly) these unions are negotiating teams for the workers (not council members, not city managers, not any managers, they piggy back onto the workers – problem #1 IMHO). That’s all. No money going to Democrats campaigns. No money laundering, etc. These negotiators work for all public employees and negotiate a contract (including guys who make very little money to sweep streets, clean sewers, and mow lawns at the parks). Now that contract, as now could mean losing benefits, as well as in good times negotiating better benefits. The salary is usually not an issue because everyone knows the private sector pays better.
So as salaries start to get talked about and pensions costs get thrown around I think what CAR is saying is stop the misinformation and one liners from the media outlets that are trying to show you the unusual problems with the system but are not the norms. Most public workers do not work for the salary but the pensions/benefits. They will get reformed as the economy goes up or down. But scapegoating them and putting ALL gov’t workers together as “they”, or making the little funny jokes are all funny but not helping.
As to the privatizing of these jobs, great. So now you want to hire a private company to come patrol your streets? Put out fires? How about clean your sewers??? Who is that private company going to hire? Oh that’s right the lowest paid person he can find that will do it for whatever price. That should really get most of you excited because now we can employ more illegals through those private companies. And I am sure those lowered pay private police/fire/etc.. force have that jurisdictions best interest at heart. Oh no they don’t because they live 45 miles away because they can’t afford to live anywhere near their work.
This problem is bigger than just “those rotten gov’t workers” with those beautiful pensions. I say go apply for that parks position and get paid 35,000 a year for 30 years and then retire at 65 on 31,500 a year for the rest of your life (with no medical now). Sounds like heaven. Oh and who will get laid off when that starts? Any of those manger positions (the CEO’s of the state/cities as one person said) who are making the 200,000+? Nope. That 35,000 a year parks guy. Good work. Just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

OK, I agree with what CAR is saying and find it disturbing that Piggs (at least some) would be buying all the hype from media. This is and always has been a problem and misdirection of scapegoating. Let’s take the focus off the private sector and oodles of money the gov’t has thrown at them and get everybody in an uproar about what firefighters make. Ohhh the unions too! Those fierce mobsters.
I see people in unions all over the world and mostly (I say mostly because there are those unions out there that work the system and need to be reined in, but mostly) these unions are negotiating teams for the workers (not council members, not city managers, not any managers, they piggy back onto the workers – problem #1 IMHO). That’s all. No money going to Democrats campaigns. No money laundering, etc. These negotiators work for all public employees and negotiate a contract (including guys who make very little money to sweep streets, clean sewers, and mow lawns at the parks). Now that contract, as now could mean losing benefits, as well as in good times negotiating better benefits. The salary is usually not an issue because everyone knows the private sector pays better.
So as salaries start to get talked about and pensions costs get thrown around I think what CAR is saying is stop the misinformation and one liners from the media outlets that are trying to show you the unusual problems with the system but are not the norms. Most public workers do not work for the salary but the pensions/benefits. They will get reformed as the economy goes up or down. But scapegoating them and putting ALL gov’t workers together as “they”, or making the little funny jokes are all funny but not helping.
As to the privatizing of these jobs, great. So now you want to hire a private company to come patrol your streets? Put out fires? How about clean your sewers??? Who is that private company going to hire? Oh that’s right the lowest paid person he can find that will do it for whatever price. That should really get most of you excited because now we can employ more illegals through those private companies. And I am sure those lowered pay private police/fire/etc.. force have that jurisdictions best interest at heart. Oh no they don’t because they live 45 miles away because they can’t afford to live anywhere near their work.
This problem is bigger than just “those rotten gov’t workers” with those beautiful pensions. I say go apply for that parks position and get paid 35,000 a year for 30 years and then retire at 65 on 31,500 a year for the rest of your life (with no medical now). Sounds like heaven. Oh and who will get laid off when that starts? Any of those manger positions (the CEO’s of the state/cities as one person said) who are making the 200,000+? Nope. That 35,000 a year parks guy. Good work. Just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

OK, I agree with what CAR is saying and find it disturbing that Piggs (at least some) would be buying all the hype from media. This is and always has been a problem and misdirection of scapegoating. Let’s take the focus off the private sector and oodles of money the gov’t has thrown at them and get everybody in an uproar about what firefighters make. Ohhh the unions too! Those fierce mobsters.
I see people in unions all over the world and mostly (I say mostly because there are those unions out there that work the system and need to be reined in, but mostly) these unions are negotiating teams for the workers (not council members, not city managers, not any managers, they piggy back onto the workers – problem #1 IMHO). That’s all. No money going to Democrats campaigns. No money laundering, etc. These negotiators work for all public employees and negotiate a contract (including guys who make very little money to sweep streets, clean sewers, and mow lawns at the parks). Now that contract, as now could mean losing benefits, as well as in good times negotiating better benefits. The salary is usually not an issue because everyone knows the private sector pays better.
So as salaries start to get talked about and pensions costs get thrown around I think what CAR is saying is stop the misinformation and one liners from the media outlets that are trying to show you the unusual problems with the system but are not the norms. Most public workers do not work for the salary but the pensions/benefits. They will get reformed as the economy goes up or down. But scapegoating them and putting ALL gov’t workers together as “they”, or making the little funny jokes are all funny but not helping.
As to the privatizing of these jobs, great. So now you want to hire a private company to come patrol your streets? Put out fires? How about clean your sewers??? Who is that private company going to hire? Oh that’s right the lowest paid person he can find that will do it for whatever price. That should really get most of you excited because now we can employ more illegals through those private companies. And I am sure those lowered pay private police/fire/etc.. force have that jurisdictions best interest at heart. Oh no they don’t because they live 45 miles away because they can’t afford to live anywhere near their work.
This problem is bigger than just “those rotten gov’t workers” with those beautiful pensions. I say go apply for that parks position and get paid 35,000 a year for 30 years and then retire at 65 on 31,500 a year for the rest of your life (with no medical now). Sounds like heaven. Oh and who will get laid off when that starts? Any of those manger positions (the CEO’s of the state/cities as one person said) who are making the 200,000+? Nope. That 35,000 a year parks guy. Good work. Just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

OK, I agree with what CAR is saying and find it disturbing that Piggs (at least some) would be buying all the hype from media. This is and always has been a problem and misdirection of scapegoating. Let’s take the focus off the private sector and oodles of money the gov’t has thrown at them and get everybody in an uproar about what firefighters make. Ohhh the unions too! Those fierce mobsters.
I see people in unions all over the world and mostly (I say mostly because there are those unions out there that work the system and need to be reined in, but mostly) these unions are negotiating teams for the workers (not council members, not city managers, not any managers, they piggy back onto the workers – problem #1 IMHO). That’s all. No money going to Democrats campaigns. No money laundering, etc. These negotiators work for all public employees and negotiate a contract (including guys who make very little money to sweep streets, clean sewers, and mow lawns at the parks). Now that contract, as now could mean losing benefits, as well as in good times negotiating better benefits. The salary is usually not an issue because everyone knows the private sector pays better.
So as salaries start to get talked about and pensions costs get thrown around I think what CAR is saying is stop the misinformation and one liners from the media outlets that are trying to show you the unusual problems with the system but are not the norms. Most public workers do not work for the salary but the pensions/benefits. They will get reformed as the economy goes up or down. But scapegoating them and putting ALL gov’t workers together as “they”, or making the little funny jokes are all funny but not helping.
As to the privatizing of these jobs, great. So now you want to hire a private company to come patrol your streets? Put out fires? How about clean your sewers??? Who is that private company going to hire? Oh that’s right the lowest paid person he can find that will do it for whatever price. That should really get most of you excited because now we can employ more illegals through those private companies. And I am sure those lowered pay private police/fire/etc.. force have that jurisdictions best interest at heart. Oh no they don’t because they live 45 miles away because they can’t afford to live anywhere near their work.
This problem is bigger than just “those rotten gov’t workers” with those beautiful pensions. I say go apply for that parks position and get paid 35,000 a year for 30 years and then retire at 65 on 31,500 a year for the rest of your life (with no medical now). Sounds like heaven. Oh and who will get laid off when that starts? Any of those manger positions (the CEO’s of the state/cities as one person said) who are making the 200,000+? Nope. That 35,000 a year parks guy. Good work. Just my two cents.

[Author]

Posts