OT: Public pay & benefits

[Coronita]

[quote=jstoesz]Back to the firemen compensation issue. I personally find this issue quite tragic. My sister in law’s husband is a newly minted firefighter soon to be let go by the city (if prop D) fails. He is not overly compensated…or not severely anyways. But the old timers are killing it for the new hires. But worse still is how the city is holding public safety over our heads instead of reforming with the money they have. What other choice does the public have, but call the politicians bluff?

Why do we have to go through this every few years?[/quote]

It’s obvious the issue. The older generation takes the benefits from the younger generation. Look no further than social security, medicare, and all the debt our younger generation is going to be saddled with….

[Aecetia]

Absolutely right!

[Aecetia]

Absolutely right!

[Aecetia]

Absolutely right!

[Aecetia]

Absolutely right!

[Aecetia]

Absolutely right!

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]Please dont compare the FDNY with the FD of Encinitas or even SD. Let’s try to compare the FD of Encinitas with a comparable suburb back east.

As for the danger. Back east they deal with structure fire in centuries old buildings on a regular basis. Firefighters in urban areas back east are in these buildings almost daily. How often do firefighters deal with brush fires of any real size around here? We have major wild fires every few years around here not everyday.

As for the $150K number, I know it includes quite a bit of overtime but what percentage of firefighters work quite a bit of overtime. My guess would be the vast majority of them. Following up on that overtime, how much of it is spent actively fighting fires and how much is spent in the station on duty.

Again, I have nothing against firefighters or them being well paid. I just think the money and benefits they get around here is obscene.[/quote]

Not only do they fight local fires, they are **forced** to fight fires in other locations around the state, and even in other states (forced overtime, sometimes for weeks at a time, and always with only a few minutes notice…maybe an hour or two, if you get a heads-up).

I know about the myth that firefighters just sit around in their recliners, but that’s just a myth. Do they sometimes sit in recliners? Sure, but it’s just a small fraction of their shift, and they do not get lunch or dinner breaks or any other kind of time-off during their shifts. They often run calls at night when the desk jockeys of the world are sleeping, and they not only fight fires, but perform rescues (cliff, swift water, vehicle extrication, etc.), run medical aids, etc. They also do fire inspections and give safety talks to students and the elderly. They also maintain their equipment and train on a regular basis (which is why the death rate is lower today than it once was…it’s not because the job isn’t dangerous, it’s because the personnel are well-trained).

BTW, I used FDNY because I’m not familiar with the east coast and don’t know of a department that would be comparable to those in San Diego, Orange County, or L.A.

So, let’s use LAFD’s info to compare it with FDNY.

Here’s LAFD’s salaray and benefit info:

DUTIES
A Firefighter engages directly in Firefighting, Emergency Medical Services, fire prevention and rescue, and inspections of building and property to ensure compliance with fire codes. Firefighters are also trained as Emergency Medical Technicians and may be trained as paramedics.

SALARY
Starting salary $46,729 – $64,686

BENEFITS
Thirteen paid holidays per year.
Sixteen days paid vacation to start.
Family health and dental coverage.
Pension plan

http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PER/lafd.htm

Here’s the pay for the Los Angles Police Department, BTW:

$45,226 to $61,095 (effective January 1, 2010)
A starting salary above the minimum may be available based on education and/or law enforcement experience.

http://per.lacity.org/exams/exam2214.htm
——————–

Exactly how many people do you think would sign up for this when flippers, mortgage brokers, and realtors are making $100K or more in the housing market (even now!)? How many will stick around when the times are good in the private sector? I personally know of a lot of people who defected from public service (mostly teachers, because they are paid even less than cops and firefighters) during the bubble to get into the real estate industry — something that often pays more for much less work.

Again, people really need to understand that the recruitment and training expenses are high, and public safety employers cannot afford to have high turnover rates. Extensive experience is what matters most in public safety, as well. That means that these employees will have lower pay during the good times, and higher pay during the bad times.

Okay, I’m signing off on this argument. It’s frustrating having to constantly explain things to people who have no knowledge of the subject, but insist on spreading myths and misinformation about the subject as if it’s the truth. I’ll leave the misinformation from those who know nothing about the subject to multiply and spread like a cancer. Go for it.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]Please dont compare the FDNY with the FD of Encinitas or even SD. Let’s try to compare the FD of Encinitas with a comparable suburb back east.

As for the danger. Back east they deal with structure fire in centuries old buildings on a regular basis. Firefighters in urban areas back east are in these buildings almost daily. How often do firefighters deal with brush fires of any real size around here? We have major wild fires every few years around here not everyday.

As for the $150K number, I know it includes quite a bit of overtime but what percentage of firefighters work quite a bit of overtime. My guess would be the vast majority of them. Following up on that overtime, how much of it is spent actively fighting fires and how much is spent in the station on duty.

Again, I have nothing against firefighters or them being well paid. I just think the money and benefits they get around here is obscene.[/quote]

Not only do they fight local fires, they are **forced** to fight fires in other locations around the state, and even in other states (forced overtime, sometimes for weeks at a time, and always with only a few minutes notice…maybe an hour or two, if you get a heads-up).

I know about the myth that firefighters just sit around in their recliners, but that’s just a myth. Do they sometimes sit in recliners? Sure, but it’s just a small fraction of their shift, and they do not get lunch or dinner breaks or any other kind of time-off during their shifts. They often run calls at night when the desk jockeys of the world are sleeping, and they not only fight fires, but perform rescues (cliff, swift water, vehicle extrication, etc.), run medical aids, etc. They also do fire inspections and give safety talks to students and the elderly. They also maintain their equipment and train on a regular basis (which is why the death rate is lower today than it once was…it’s not because the job isn’t dangerous, it’s because the personnel are well-trained).

BTW, I used FDNY because I’m not familiar with the east coast and don’t know of a department that would be comparable to those in San Diego, Orange County, or L.A.

So, let’s use LAFD’s info to compare it with FDNY.

Here’s LAFD’s salaray and benefit info:

DUTIES
A Firefighter engages directly in Firefighting, Emergency Medical Services, fire prevention and rescue, and inspections of building and property to ensure compliance with fire codes. Firefighters are also trained as Emergency Medical Technicians and may be trained as paramedics.

SALARY
Starting salary $46,729 – $64,686

BENEFITS
Thirteen paid holidays per year.
Sixteen days paid vacation to start.
Family health and dental coverage.
Pension plan

http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PER/lafd.htm

Here’s the pay for the Los Angles Police Department, BTW:

$45,226 to $61,095 (effective January 1, 2010)
A starting salary above the minimum may be available based on education and/or law enforcement experience.

http://per.lacity.org/exams/exam2214.htm
——————–

Exactly how many people do you think would sign up for this when flippers, mortgage brokers, and realtors are making $100K or more in the housing market (even now!)? How many will stick around when the times are good in the private sector? I personally know of a lot of people who defected from public service (mostly teachers, because they are paid even less than cops and firefighters) during the bubble to get into the real estate industry — something that often pays more for much less work.

Again, people really need to understand that the recruitment and training expenses are high, and public safety employers cannot afford to have high turnover rates. Extensive experience is what matters most in public safety, as well. That means that these employees will have lower pay during the good times, and higher pay during the bad times.

Okay, I’m signing off on this argument. It’s frustrating having to constantly explain things to people who have no knowledge of the subject, but insist on spreading myths and misinformation about the subject as if it’s the truth. I’ll leave the misinformation from those who know nothing about the subject to multiply and spread like a cancer. Go for it.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]Please dont compare the FDNY with the FD of Encinitas or even SD. Let’s try to compare the FD of Encinitas with a comparable suburb back east.

As for the danger. Back east they deal with structure fire in centuries old buildings on a regular basis. Firefighters in urban areas back east are in these buildings almost daily. How often do firefighters deal with brush fires of any real size around here? We have major wild fires every few years around here not everyday.

As for the $150K number, I know it includes quite a bit of overtime but what percentage of firefighters work quite a bit of overtime. My guess would be the vast majority of them. Following up on that overtime, how much of it is spent actively fighting fires and how much is spent in the station on duty.

Again, I have nothing against firefighters or them being well paid. I just think the money and benefits they get around here is obscene.[/quote]

Not only do they fight local fires, they are **forced** to fight fires in other locations around the state, and even in other states (forced overtime, sometimes for weeks at a time, and always with only a few minutes notice…maybe an hour or two, if you get a heads-up).

I know about the myth that firefighters just sit around in their recliners, but that’s just a myth. Do they sometimes sit in recliners? Sure, but it’s just a small fraction of their shift, and they do not get lunch or dinner breaks or any other kind of time-off during their shifts. They often run calls at night when the desk jockeys of the world are sleeping, and they not only fight fires, but perform rescues (cliff, swift water, vehicle extrication, etc.), run medical aids, etc. They also do fire inspections and give safety talks to students and the elderly. They also maintain their equipment and train on a regular basis (which is why the death rate is lower today than it once was…it’s not because the job isn’t dangerous, it’s because the personnel are well-trained).

BTW, I used FDNY because I’m not familiar with the east coast and don’t know of a department that would be comparable to those in San Diego, Orange County, or L.A.

So, let’s use LAFD’s info to compare it with FDNY.

Here’s LAFD’s salaray and benefit info:

DUTIES
A Firefighter engages directly in Firefighting, Emergency Medical Services, fire prevention and rescue, and inspections of building and property to ensure compliance with fire codes. Firefighters are also trained as Emergency Medical Technicians and may be trained as paramedics.

SALARY
Starting salary $46,729 – $64,686

BENEFITS
Thirteen paid holidays per year.
Sixteen days paid vacation to start.
Family health and dental coverage.
Pension plan

http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PER/lafd.htm

Here’s the pay for the Los Angles Police Department, BTW:

$45,226 to $61,095 (effective January 1, 2010)
A starting salary above the minimum may be available based on education and/or law enforcement experience.

http://per.lacity.org/exams/exam2214.htm
——————–

Exactly how many people do you think would sign up for this when flippers, mortgage brokers, and realtors are making $100K or more in the housing market (even now!)? How many will stick around when the times are good in the private sector? I personally know of a lot of people who defected from public service (mostly teachers, because they are paid even less than cops and firefighters) during the bubble to get into the real estate industry — something that often pays more for much less work.

Again, people really need to understand that the recruitment and training expenses are high, and public safety employers cannot afford to have high turnover rates. Extensive experience is what matters most in public safety, as well. That means that these employees will have lower pay during the good times, and higher pay during the bad times.

Okay, I’m signing off on this argument. It’s frustrating having to constantly explain things to people who have no knowledge of the subject, but insist on spreading myths and misinformation about the subject as if it’s the truth. I’ll leave the misinformation from those who know nothing about the subject to multiply and spread like a cancer. Go for it.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]Please dont compare the FDNY with the FD of Encinitas or even SD. Let’s try to compare the FD of Encinitas with a comparable suburb back east.

As for the danger. Back east they deal with structure fire in centuries old buildings on a regular basis. Firefighters in urban areas back east are in these buildings almost daily. How often do firefighters deal with brush fires of any real size around here? We have major wild fires every few years around here not everyday.

As for the $150K number, I know it includes quite a bit of overtime but what percentage of firefighters work quite a bit of overtime. My guess would be the vast majority of them. Following up on that overtime, how much of it is spent actively fighting fires and how much is spent in the station on duty.

Again, I have nothing against firefighters or them being well paid. I just think the money and benefits they get around here is obscene.[/quote]

Not only do they fight local fires, they are **forced** to fight fires in other locations around the state, and even in other states (forced overtime, sometimes for weeks at a time, and always with only a few minutes notice…maybe an hour or two, if you get a heads-up).

I know about the myth that firefighters just sit around in their recliners, but that’s just a myth. Do they sometimes sit in recliners? Sure, but it’s just a small fraction of their shift, and they do not get lunch or dinner breaks or any other kind of time-off during their shifts. They often run calls at night when the desk jockeys of the world are sleeping, and they not only fight fires, but perform rescues (cliff, swift water, vehicle extrication, etc.), run medical aids, etc. They also do fire inspections and give safety talks to students and the elderly. They also maintain their equipment and train on a regular basis (which is why the death rate is lower today than it once was…it’s not because the job isn’t dangerous, it’s because the personnel are well-trained).

BTW, I used FDNY because I’m not familiar with the east coast and don’t know of a department that would be comparable to those in San Diego, Orange County, or L.A.

So, let’s use LAFD’s info to compare it with FDNY.

Here’s LAFD’s salaray and benefit info:

DUTIES
A Firefighter engages directly in Firefighting, Emergency Medical Services, fire prevention and rescue, and inspections of building and property to ensure compliance with fire codes. Firefighters are also trained as Emergency Medical Technicians and may be trained as paramedics.

SALARY
Starting salary $46,729 – $64,686

BENEFITS
Thirteen paid holidays per year.
Sixteen days paid vacation to start.
Family health and dental coverage.
Pension plan

http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PER/lafd.htm

Here’s the pay for the Los Angles Police Department, BTW:

$45,226 to $61,095 (effective January 1, 2010)
A starting salary above the minimum may be available based on education and/or law enforcement experience.

http://per.lacity.org/exams/exam2214.htm
——————–

Exactly how many people do you think would sign up for this when flippers, mortgage brokers, and realtors are making $100K or more in the housing market (even now!)? How many will stick around when the times are good in the private sector? I personally know of a lot of people who defected from public service (mostly teachers, because they are paid even less than cops and firefighters) during the bubble to get into the real estate industry — something that often pays more for much less work.

Again, people really need to understand that the recruitment and training expenses are high, and public safety employers cannot afford to have high turnover rates. Extensive experience is what matters most in public safety, as well. That means that these employees will have lower pay during the good times, and higher pay during the bad times.

Okay, I’m signing off on this argument. It’s frustrating having to constantly explain things to people who have no knowledge of the subject, but insist on spreading myths and misinformation about the subject as if it’s the truth. I’ll leave the misinformation from those who know nothing about the subject to multiply and spread like a cancer. Go for it.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]Please dont compare the FDNY with the FD of Encinitas or even SD. Let’s try to compare the FD of Encinitas with a comparable suburb back east.

As for the danger. Back east they deal with structure fire in centuries old buildings on a regular basis. Firefighters in urban areas back east are in these buildings almost daily. How often do firefighters deal with brush fires of any real size around here? We have major wild fires every few years around here not everyday.

As for the $150K number, I know it includes quite a bit of overtime but what percentage of firefighters work quite a bit of overtime. My guess would be the vast majority of them. Following up on that overtime, how much of it is spent actively fighting fires and how much is spent in the station on duty.

Again, I have nothing against firefighters or them being well paid. I just think the money and benefits they get around here is obscene.[/quote]

Not only do they fight local fires, they are **forced** to fight fires in other locations around the state, and even in other states (forced overtime, sometimes for weeks at a time, and always with only a few minutes notice…maybe an hour or two, if you get a heads-up).

I know about the myth that firefighters just sit around in their recliners, but that’s just a myth. Do they sometimes sit in recliners? Sure, but it’s just a small fraction of their shift, and they do not get lunch or dinner breaks or any other kind of time-off during their shifts. They often run calls at night when the desk jockeys of the world are sleeping, and they not only fight fires, but perform rescues (cliff, swift water, vehicle extrication, etc.), run medical aids, etc. They also do fire inspections and give safety talks to students and the elderly. They also maintain their equipment and train on a regular basis (which is why the death rate is lower today than it once was…it’s not because the job isn’t dangerous, it’s because the personnel are well-trained).

BTW, I used FDNY because I’m not familiar with the east coast and don’t know of a department that would be comparable to those in San Diego, Orange County, or L.A.

So, let’s use LAFD’s info to compare it with FDNY.

Here’s LAFD’s salaray and benefit info:

DUTIES
A Firefighter engages directly in Firefighting, Emergency Medical Services, fire prevention and rescue, and inspections of building and property to ensure compliance with fire codes. Firefighters are also trained as Emergency Medical Technicians and may be trained as paramedics.

SALARY
Starting salary $46,729 – $64,686

BENEFITS
Thirteen paid holidays per year.
Sixteen days paid vacation to start.
Family health and dental coverage.
Pension plan

http://www.ci.la.ca.us/PER/lafd.htm

Here’s the pay for the Los Angles Police Department, BTW:

$45,226 to $61,095 (effective January 1, 2010)
A starting salary above the minimum may be available based on education and/or law enforcement experience.

http://per.lacity.org/exams/exam2214.htm
——————–

Exactly how many people do you think would sign up for this when flippers, mortgage brokers, and realtors are making $100K or more in the housing market (even now!)? How many will stick around when the times are good in the private sector? I personally know of a lot of people who defected from public service (mostly teachers, because they are paid even less than cops and firefighters) during the bubble to get into the real estate industry — something that often pays more for much less work.

Again, people really need to understand that the recruitment and training expenses are high, and public safety employers cannot afford to have high turnover rates. Extensive experience is what matters most in public safety, as well. That means that these employees will have lower pay during the good times, and higher pay during the bad times.

Okay, I’m signing off on this argument. It’s frustrating having to constantly explain things to people who have no knowledge of the subject, but insist on spreading myths and misinformation about the subject as if it’s the truth. I’ll leave the misinformation from those who know nothing about the subject to multiply and spread like a cancer. Go for it.

[meadandale]

Salary may seem low…but they get a combined 29 days off annually (vacation and holidays) as well as a pension plan and family medical/dental. Those benefits are way more generous than someone starting out in the private sector.

[meadandale]

Salary may seem low…but they get a combined 29 days off annually (vacation and holidays) as well as a pension plan and family medical/dental. Those benefits are way more generous than someone starting out in the private sector.

[meadandale]

Salary may seem low…but they get a combined 29 days off annually (vacation and holidays) as well as a pension plan and family medical/dental. Those benefits are way more generous than someone starting out in the private sector.

[meadandale]

Salary may seem low…but they get a combined 29 days off annually (vacation and holidays) as well as a pension plan and family medical/dental. Those benefits are way more generous than someone starting out in the private sector.

[Author]

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