OT – Inside Obama’s “Tax Cut” Can you say Redistribution!

[an]

Shadowfax, I agree with your assessment of the differences between the two groups. The question now is, how do we help these native born? Would penalizing those who made it and throwing more $ at this problem will help fix it? My personal opinion is, no. I’ve seen what hard work and determination can do and have done, so I think all the opportunities are there, whether these native born grab it or not is a whole different story. I can guarantee you that these “poor” native born haven’t really seen poor. I can guarantee you that many people in my native country would trade their lives with the poorest here in the US in a heart beat.

[Shadowfax]

That is very true–Americans are spoiled from the bottom to the top. Poor in Africa or Asia or the Middle East is several orders of magnitude worse than poor in America.

The key is that “you have seen what hard work can do.” And the rumors or stories of that success are carried back to the “homeland” to entice more ambitious people to come to America to make their fortunes. There are not many success stories in the projects, the immigrant work camps or in the coal mines (lest anyone think I am advocating based on skin color). Many people do work hard in these groups (physical labor or long hours, though perhaps not skilled or educated work) and barely get by. And if you do get a little bit ahead, how do you protect yourself from being robbed by the neighbors? Police don’t like to patrol these neighborhoods.

How do you instill a work ethic when there appears to be so little gain to such hard work. If there is an uncle or grandfather to look to as a success story, something tangible, then maybe some will persevere. But Uncle is in jail and grandpa died in a mine cave in…penniless.

It is a challenge to inspire and motivate people in these groups. Compounding all the rest, there is tremendous peer pressure not to excel! It’s unimaginable. I don’t think that we just turn off the spigot for these people, though it can seem daunting to throw good money after bad.

I sincerely believe that education is the key to most of our societal ills. Other than funding schools/teachers and supervising curriculum, not sure what else a government can do. You ultimately can’t lead a horse to water….
It’s a dilemma.

[Shadowfax]

That is very true–Americans are spoiled from the bottom to the top. Poor in Africa or Asia or the Middle East is several orders of magnitude worse than poor in America.

The key is that “you have seen what hard work can do.” And the rumors or stories of that success are carried back to the “homeland” to entice more ambitious people to come to America to make their fortunes. There are not many success stories in the projects, the immigrant work camps or in the coal mines (lest anyone think I am advocating based on skin color). Many people do work hard in these groups (physical labor or long hours, though perhaps not skilled or educated work) and barely get by. And if you do get a little bit ahead, how do you protect yourself from being robbed by the neighbors? Police don’t like to patrol these neighborhoods.

How do you instill a work ethic when there appears to be so little gain to such hard work. If there is an uncle or grandfather to look to as a success story, something tangible, then maybe some will persevere. But Uncle is in jail and grandpa died in a mine cave in…penniless.

It is a challenge to inspire and motivate people in these groups. Compounding all the rest, there is tremendous peer pressure not to excel! It’s unimaginable. I don’t think that we just turn off the spigot for these people, though it can seem daunting to throw good money after bad.

I sincerely believe that education is the key to most of our societal ills. Other than funding schools/teachers and supervising curriculum, not sure what else a government can do. You ultimately can’t lead a horse to water….
It’s a dilemma.

[Shadowfax]

That is very true–Americans are spoiled from the bottom to the top. Poor in Africa or Asia or the Middle East is several orders of magnitude worse than poor in America.

The key is that “you have seen what hard work can do.” And the rumors or stories of that success are carried back to the “homeland” to entice more ambitious people to come to America to make their fortunes. There are not many success stories in the projects, the immigrant work camps or in the coal mines (lest anyone think I am advocating based on skin color). Many people do work hard in these groups (physical labor or long hours, though perhaps not skilled or educated work) and barely get by. And if you do get a little bit ahead, how do you protect yourself from being robbed by the neighbors? Police don’t like to patrol these neighborhoods.

How do you instill a work ethic when there appears to be so little gain to such hard work. If there is an uncle or grandfather to look to as a success story, something tangible, then maybe some will persevere. But Uncle is in jail and grandpa died in a mine cave in…penniless.

It is a challenge to inspire and motivate people in these groups. Compounding all the rest, there is tremendous peer pressure not to excel! It’s unimaginable. I don’t think that we just turn off the spigot for these people, though it can seem daunting to throw good money after bad.

I sincerely believe that education is the key to most of our societal ills. Other than funding schools/teachers and supervising curriculum, not sure what else a government can do. You ultimately can’t lead a horse to water….
It’s a dilemma.

[Shadowfax]

That is very true–Americans are spoiled from the bottom to the top. Poor in Africa or Asia or the Middle East is several orders of magnitude worse than poor in America.

The key is that “you have seen what hard work can do.” And the rumors or stories of that success are carried back to the “homeland” to entice more ambitious people to come to America to make their fortunes. There are not many success stories in the projects, the immigrant work camps or in the coal mines (lest anyone think I am advocating based on skin color). Many people do work hard in these groups (physical labor or long hours, though perhaps not skilled or educated work) and barely get by. And if you do get a little bit ahead, how do you protect yourself from being robbed by the neighbors? Police don’t like to patrol these neighborhoods.

How do you instill a work ethic when there appears to be so little gain to such hard work. If there is an uncle or grandfather to look to as a success story, something tangible, then maybe some will persevere. But Uncle is in jail and grandpa died in a mine cave in…penniless.

It is a challenge to inspire and motivate people in these groups. Compounding all the rest, there is tremendous peer pressure not to excel! It’s unimaginable. I don’t think that we just turn off the spigot for these people, though it can seem daunting to throw good money after bad.

I sincerely believe that education is the key to most of our societal ills. Other than funding schools/teachers and supervising curriculum, not sure what else a government can do. You ultimately can’t lead a horse to water….
It’s a dilemma.

[Shadowfax]

That is very true–Americans are spoiled from the bottom to the top. Poor in Africa or Asia or the Middle East is several orders of magnitude worse than poor in America.

The key is that “you have seen what hard work can do.” And the rumors or stories of that success are carried back to the “homeland” to entice more ambitious people to come to America to make their fortunes. There are not many success stories in the projects, the immigrant work camps or in the coal mines (lest anyone think I am advocating based on skin color). Many people do work hard in these groups (physical labor or long hours, though perhaps not skilled or educated work) and barely get by. And if you do get a little bit ahead, how do you protect yourself from being robbed by the neighbors? Police don’t like to patrol these neighborhoods.

How do you instill a work ethic when there appears to be so little gain to such hard work. If there is an uncle or grandfather to look to as a success story, something tangible, then maybe some will persevere. But Uncle is in jail and grandpa died in a mine cave in…penniless.

It is a challenge to inspire and motivate people in these groups. Compounding all the rest, there is tremendous peer pressure not to excel! It’s unimaginable. I don’t think that we just turn off the spigot for these people, though it can seem daunting to throw good money after bad.

I sincerely believe that education is the key to most of our societal ills. Other than funding schools/teachers and supervising curriculum, not sure what else a government can do. You ultimately can’t lead a horse to water….
It’s a dilemma.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=asianautica]
If you want to reward work, then stop rewarding people who don’t work. Why would they work if they’re getting rewarding for not working? A guy who’s on welfare and who would get all these extra tax credit from Obama wouldn’t want to get off his ass and get a minimum wage job to end up w/ less than what he gets for doing nothing.[/quote]

How about we stop rewarding criminals like Bush has done with his $700 billion No Banker Left Behind Bailout? That, coupled with the $250 billion dollar direct taxpayer injection into the banks adds up to almost $1 trillion in welfare for the richest Americans (and even some foreigners).

This to me is despicable. Bush, Republicans, and people like you who vote for them are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity. I would much rather see a few thousand dollars in taxpayer money go to a family in need as opposed to over a trillion going to a criminal element of society who is also among the richest.

I guess we are different that way. You have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals, while I would prefer that taxpayer money be used to help with some of the social ills in this country.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=asianautica]
If you want to reward work, then stop rewarding people who don’t work. Why would they work if they’re getting rewarding for not working? A guy who’s on welfare and who would get all these extra tax credit from Obama wouldn’t want to get off his ass and get a minimum wage job to end up w/ less than what he gets for doing nothing.[/quote]

How about we stop rewarding criminals like Bush has done with his $700 billion No Banker Left Behind Bailout? That, coupled with the $250 billion dollar direct taxpayer injection into the banks adds up to almost $1 trillion in welfare for the richest Americans (and even some foreigners).

This to me is despicable. Bush, Republicans, and people like you who vote for them are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity. I would much rather see a few thousand dollars in taxpayer money go to a family in need as opposed to over a trillion going to a criminal element of society who is also among the richest.

I guess we are different that way. You have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals, while I would prefer that taxpayer money be used to help with some of the social ills in this country.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=asianautica]
If you want to reward work, then stop rewarding people who don’t work. Why would they work if they’re getting rewarding for not working? A guy who’s on welfare and who would get all these extra tax credit from Obama wouldn’t want to get off his ass and get a minimum wage job to end up w/ less than what he gets for doing nothing.[/quote]

How about we stop rewarding criminals like Bush has done with his $700 billion No Banker Left Behind Bailout? That, coupled with the $250 billion dollar direct taxpayer injection into the banks adds up to almost $1 trillion in welfare for the richest Americans (and even some foreigners).

This to me is despicable. Bush, Republicans, and people like you who vote for them are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity. I would much rather see a few thousand dollars in taxpayer money go to a family in need as opposed to over a trillion going to a criminal element of society who is also among the richest.

I guess we are different that way. You have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals, while I would prefer that taxpayer money be used to help with some of the social ills in this country.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=asianautica]
If you want to reward work, then stop rewarding people who don’t work. Why would they work if they’re getting rewarding for not working? A guy who’s on welfare and who would get all these extra tax credit from Obama wouldn’t want to get off his ass and get a minimum wage job to end up w/ less than what he gets for doing nothing.[/quote]

How about we stop rewarding criminals like Bush has done with his $700 billion No Banker Left Behind Bailout? That, coupled with the $250 billion dollar direct taxpayer injection into the banks adds up to almost $1 trillion in welfare for the richest Americans (and even some foreigners).

This to me is despicable. Bush, Republicans, and people like you who vote for them are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity. I would much rather see a few thousand dollars in taxpayer money go to a family in need as opposed to over a trillion going to a criminal element of society who is also among the richest.

I guess we are different that way. You have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals, while I would prefer that taxpayer money be used to help with some of the social ills in this country.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=asianautica]
If you want to reward work, then stop rewarding people who don’t work. Why would they work if they’re getting rewarding for not working? A guy who’s on welfare and who would get all these extra tax credit from Obama wouldn’t want to get off his ass and get a minimum wage job to end up w/ less than what he gets for doing nothing.[/quote]

How about we stop rewarding criminals like Bush has done with his $700 billion No Banker Left Behind Bailout? That, coupled with the $250 billion dollar direct taxpayer injection into the banks adds up to almost $1 trillion in welfare for the richest Americans (and even some foreigners).

This to me is despicable. Bush, Republicans, and people like you who vote for them are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity. I would much rather see a few thousand dollars in taxpayer money go to a family in need as opposed to over a trillion going to a criminal element of society who is also among the richest.

I guess we are different that way. You have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals, while I would prefer that taxpayer money be used to help with some of the social ills in this country.

[an]

[quote=TheBreeze]
How about we stop rewarding criminals like Bush has done with his $700 billion No Banker Left Behind Bailout? That, coupled with the $250 billion dollar direct taxpayer injection into the banks adds up to almost $1 trillion in welfare for the richest Americans (and even some foreigners).[/quote]
Hope you’re aware the majority of Democrats in the house voted for the $700B Bailouts.

[quote=TheBreeze]This to me is despicable. Bush, Republicans, and people like you who vote for them are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity. I would much rather see a few thousand dollars in taxpayer money go to a family in need as opposed to over a trillion going to a criminal element of society who is also among the richest. [/quote]
People like me? Sorry to burst your bubble but I NEVER voted for Bush. I’m also not voting for McCain this year, just to get it out there so you don’t look like a dumbass making false accusation. Yes, lets vote out all those Democrats and Republicans who voted for all these bailouts. I’m all for that. FYI, Obama voted for the bailouts. Ron Paul a REPUBLICAN voted AGAINST the bailouts. So, using your logic, since you support Obama, you are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity.

[quote=TheBreeze]I guess we are different that way. You have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals, while I would prefer that taxpayer money be used to help with some of the social ills in this country. [/quote]
Once again, the candidate who I support did not vote for these bailouts, and yours did. So, you’re the one who have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals.

[an]

[quote=TheBreeze]
How about we stop rewarding criminals like Bush has done with his $700 billion No Banker Left Behind Bailout? That, coupled with the $250 billion dollar direct taxpayer injection into the banks adds up to almost $1 trillion in welfare for the richest Americans (and even some foreigners).[/quote]
Hope you’re aware the majority of Democrats in the house voted for the $700B Bailouts.

[quote=TheBreeze]This to me is despicable. Bush, Republicans, and people like you who vote for them are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity. I would much rather see a few thousand dollars in taxpayer money go to a family in need as opposed to over a trillion going to a criminal element of society who is also among the richest. [/quote]
People like me? Sorry to burst your bubble but I NEVER voted for Bush. I’m also not voting for McCain this year, just to get it out there so you don’t look like a dumbass making false accusation. Yes, lets vote out all those Democrats and Republicans who voted for all these bailouts. I’m all for that. FYI, Obama voted for the bailouts. Ron Paul a REPUBLICAN voted AGAINST the bailouts. So, using your logic, since you support Obama, you are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity.

[quote=TheBreeze]I guess we are different that way. You have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals, while I would prefer that taxpayer money be used to help with some of the social ills in this country. [/quote]
Once again, the candidate who I support did not vote for these bailouts, and yours did. So, you’re the one who have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals.

[an]

[quote=TheBreeze]
How about we stop rewarding criminals like Bush has done with his $700 billion No Banker Left Behind Bailout? That, coupled with the $250 billion dollar direct taxpayer injection into the banks adds up to almost $1 trillion in welfare for the richest Americans (and even some foreigners).[/quote]
Hope you’re aware the majority of Democrats in the house voted for the $700B Bailouts.

[quote=TheBreeze]This to me is despicable. Bush, Republicans, and people like you who vote for them are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity. I would much rather see a few thousand dollars in taxpayer money go to a family in need as opposed to over a trillion going to a criminal element of society who is also among the richest. [/quote]
People like me? Sorry to burst your bubble but I NEVER voted for Bush. I’m also not voting for McCain this year, just to get it out there so you don’t look like a dumbass making false accusation. Yes, lets vote out all those Democrats and Republicans who voted for all these bailouts. I’m all for that. FYI, Obama voted for the bailouts. Ron Paul a REPUBLICAN voted AGAINST the bailouts. So, using your logic, since you support Obama, you are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity.

[quote=TheBreeze]I guess we are different that way. You have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals, while I would prefer that taxpayer money be used to help with some of the social ills in this country. [/quote]
Once again, the candidate who I support did not vote for these bailouts, and yours did. So, you’re the one who have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals.

[an]

[quote=TheBreeze]
How about we stop rewarding criminals like Bush has done with his $700 billion No Banker Left Behind Bailout? That, coupled with the $250 billion dollar direct taxpayer injection into the banks adds up to almost $1 trillion in welfare for the richest Americans (and even some foreigners).[/quote]
Hope you’re aware the majority of Democrats in the house voted for the $700B Bailouts.

[quote=TheBreeze]This to me is despicable. Bush, Republicans, and people like you who vote for them are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity. I would much rather see a few thousand dollars in taxpayer money go to a family in need as opposed to over a trillion going to a criminal element of society who is also among the richest. [/quote]
People like me? Sorry to burst your bubble but I NEVER voted for Bush. I’m also not voting for McCain this year, just to get it out there so you don’t look like a dumbass making false accusation. Yes, lets vote out all those Democrats and Republicans who voted for all these bailouts. I’m all for that. FYI, Obama voted for the bailouts. Ron Paul a REPUBLICAN voted AGAINST the bailouts. So, using your logic, since you support Obama, you are rewarding criminals who rape the system at every opportunity.

[quote=TheBreeze]I guess we are different that way. You have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals, while I would prefer that taxpayer money be used to help with some of the social ills in this country. [/quote]
Once again, the candidate who I support did not vote for these bailouts, and yours did. So, you’re the one who have no trouble giving over a trillion in taxpayer money to criminals.

[Author]

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