OT: How much baggage will you accept?

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I’m stressed out some days. Time feels compressed at moments.

It used to be really bad.[/quote]

That sound like too busy or too worried to me. Take some long walks? That slows things down and makes things better for me.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]also…not incpmpatible with getting really drunk…

i think socrates got wasted..[/quote]

I don’t think Socrates tried to reason with his wife.

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal][quote=CA renter]
And please do not do what UCGal did, where she claimed that I said something that was neither stated nor implied.
[/quote]

I quoted you directly, previously, showing you directly compared a nanny working 40 hours a week to a SAHP working 24×7 – and pointed out the comparison was invalid because the working parent does the labor for free (like a SAHP) for the rest of the week outside the nanny’s hours.

That and your rants about feminism that seem so far off track to what mainstream feminism is. You’ve chosen some fringe folks to rant about – even though they aren’t representative, they’re fringe.

Here are some quotes of yours that I have issue with. I agree we’re probably talking past each other.

[quote=CA renter]
How much would you have to pay for someone to be there for your children 24/7? How much to make all the appointments and shuttle people to these appointments and manage all the follow-up? How much to manage a family’s finances — including bill paying, negotiating contracts and doing due diligence on service providers, doing investment research and allocating financial resources? How about a family’s financial/legal business like estate planning, insurance, home purchases, etc…especially if that tends to be managed by one spouse? [/quote]

My issue here is that many households with 2 working parents manage to do many of these tasks without paying outside people. You are comparing what you do 24×7 to what many working parents cram into the remaining 128 hours of the week that they aren’t at work. I’m not saying it doesn’t have value. But it’s unpaid work in the vast majority of households – whether the parents work or not. And outside that 40 hours of work time, parents are with their kids. (16×5 + 24×2).

I went back and re-read your response – and you clearly miss my point.

[quote=CA renter]
I think that people aren’t getting what I’ve posted for some reason. I never said that a SAHP’s work should be valued more than the same work done by someone who works for wages. The point is that if the SAHP isn’t doing these things, then somebody else is. The cost of these things should be ascribed to the value of what a SAHP does. If the parents are both working outside of the home and both sharing these duties, it doesn’t change a thing. This work still has the same value.[/quote]
To the bolded – most of these things (perhaps outside of 40 hours of childcare) are done by working parents in the remaining 128 hours of the week. The tasks still get done. Usually unpaid. By someone who already spent the day working for wages.

My point is: For most households these are unpaid, do it yourself tasks. Sure – you CAN pay to have someone manage your money, run your kids to soccer on the weekends, run the family…. But most of us either can’t afford to pay outside people, or choose not to spend our money that way. You don’t get to count the value as both unpaid earned income and also as saved money. Some families choose to pay for these tasks other choose to do them themselves to save the money.

I am currently not working outside the house and have an 11 year old and 13 year old. I have made the choice to not work outside the home right now – because we were fortunate enough to be able to afford to have this option. It is a CHOICE. It is not one that I get paid for nor do I expect income, imputed or virtual. In fact, it had tangible negative impact on our income stream. (obviously.)

I am mostly doing the same tasks I did prior to retiring – just less time crunched to do it. My house might be a little cleaner, though. I don’t really see that I am owed money or that my “value contributed to the household” went up. My amount of sleep went up because I’m no longer juggling as much… I can pace out the tasks of cleaning/yardwork/estate planning/negotiating contracts/child-rearing/coaching robotics teams/baking bread from scratch/investing/travel planning/meal prep. But I was doing all of that prior to retiring – and working a 32 hour work week.

Obviously you add value to your household with everything you do. That’s why you made the choices you did. Hopefully Mr. CAR isn’t one of the cads you describe who doesn’t appreciate what you do.

But you seem to fail to recognize that many families manage to accomplish most of the tasks you describe, in the hours outside of earning income. Yes – it adds stress to a household and exhaustion to the parents – but it gets done. Usually for no income… but in order to save money so that it can be spent on other things.

Again – You obviously add value to your family. But so do parents who juggle many of the same tasks while working.[/quote]

You like to blithely ignore that 40 hours/week (and it’s more in many households) when the wage-earning parents are NOT doing these duties. And these are the hours when much of the work is being done.

And we’re not talking about what you personally pay for help, or what you do for your family — and we’re NOT talking about my family either, as I’m speaking in general terms — which makes your snarky comment not only rude and unproductive, but entirely unjustified.

I will link to some research so that you can better understand the concept I’m trying to get across.

[UCGal]

[quote=CA renter]
You like to blithely ignore that 40 hours/week (and it’s more in many households) when the wage-earning parents are NOT doing these duties. And these are the hours when much of the work is being done.

And we’re not talking about what you personally pay for help, or what you do for your family — and we’re NOT talking about my family either, as I’m speaking in general terms — which makes your snarky comment not only rude and unproductive, but entirely unjustified.

I will link to some research so that you can better understand the concept I’m trying to get across.[/quote]

I was not trying to be snarky. Snarky implies mean spirited sarcasm. I was trying to make logical arguments – but clearly our points of view are divergent to the point that even though I agreed with many of your points – but disputed some specific ones, you can’t understand my point.

I’m disengaging because I really like you and don’t want to continue an argument that we apparently can’t find common ground on. I wish you much happiness and peace. I’m sorry it went down this way and in the future I’ll try to stay out of arguments with you.

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal][quote=CA renter]
You like to blithely ignore that 40 hours/week (and it’s more in many households) when the wage-earning parents are NOT doing these duties. And these are the hours when much of the work is being done.

And we’re not talking about what you personally pay for help, or what you do for your family — and we’re NOT talking about my family either, as I’m speaking in general terms — which makes your snarky comment not only rude and unproductive, but entirely unjustified.

I will link to some research so that you can better understand the concept I’m trying to get across.[/quote]

I was not trying to be snarky. Snarky implies mean spirited sarcasm. I was trying to make logical arguments – but clearly our points of view are divergent to the point that even though I agreed with many of your points – but disputed some specific ones, you can’t understand my point.

I’m disengaging because I really like you and don’t want to continue an argument that we apparently can’t find common ground on. I wish you much happiness and peace. I’m sorry it went down this way and in the future I’ll try to stay out of arguments with you.[/quote]

Definition of SNARKY
1
: crotchety, snappish
2
: sarcastic, impertinent, or irreverent in tone or manner

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/snarky

[quote=UCGal]

Here- maybe this will make you feel better.
CAR – you are a wonderful parent, wife, homemaker, and you are worth billions of dollars to your family!!!! Far more than any other mother anywhere.[/quote]

…snarky, and totally uncalled for, as I’ve never attacked you personally (and I’ve never implied, in any way, what you’ve stated there).

[NotCranky]

I tried the monetarization idea on very hard. For example the making of my kids
Halloween suit and taking him out to a party until 9 while my wonderful, but exhausted from her weeks work , wife went home to care for and catch up with the other two boys and relax. She also did not monetarize the time she spent with blogstar jr’s 1&2 which is a big help for both of us.

My conclusion it that FOR ME, monetarization CHEAPENS everything that has to do with the personal growth , emotional and physical support for my family.

If I started charging my wife for lovemaking I think the best parts would disappear and that would really be hard to live with.

And if by chance, I get kicked to the curb in a vulnerable state of unemployment I can deal with that, my future is not in dire jeopardy .

[UCGal]

I concede. That was snarky. I apologize.

[NotCranky]

I apologize , Carenter , for being snarky and for calling you a liar.

[scaredyclassic]

I hate to brag but I am awesome at apologizing. I apologized to my kids a lot over the years.

Kids dig being apologized to.

I still really enjoy it.

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I hate to brag but I am awesome at apologizing. I apologized to my kids a lot over the years.

Kids dig being apologized to.

I still really enjoy it.[/quote]

[NotCranky]

Scaredy , let’s hear your take on why Brian should or shouldn’t avoid divorcees? (I thought he said he was divorced)

I don’t know if B, ever said how old he was but seems like 40 give or take. Kev says 40. So keep in mind that these are not spring chickens, I mean roosters.

[CA renter]

[quote=Blogstar]

Yes, I blew it in that exact way.

What was that saying about not mistaking something else for Malice?

I do think letting things like Men are abandoners and other such claims fly is dangerous. That’t what dialectic is for( without the accusations of lying). Thinking of the Salem Witch trials, though I am not sure it fits. Seems like it does.[/quote]

I can assure you that if we were to invite professors of sociology, economics, psychology, etc. to join our discussion, they would grasp what I’m saying. The fact that you don’t get it doesn’t make it invalid, nor does it make me a liar, nor does it make me stupid.

FWIW, I’d be more than willing to pit my IQ against yours, any day of the week; and “comprehension of social issues” is my strongest score (of a very high score, overall). Care to wager, Russ?

Try reading some of the links, Russ, and educate yourself a bit.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Blogstar]Scaredy , let’s hear your take on why Brian should or shouldn’t avoid divorcees? (I thought he said he was divorced)

I don’t know if B, ever said how old he was but seems like 40 give or take. Kev says 40. So keep in mind that these are not spring chickens, I mean roosters.[/quote]

I Corinthian 7:8

Basically if you’re not married, don’t get married.

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I hate to brag but I am awesome at apologizing. I apologized to my kids a lot over the years.

Kids dig being apologized to.

I still really enjoy it.[/quote]

Ditto. I grew up with parents who didn’t apologize. I will never do that to my kids. I apologize on a very regular basis, and also let them have their say, and act on their recommendations if they have a valid point, when they think something is unjust or unfair. It’s incredibly important, and I think kids respect parents more when they do this.

[CA renter]

Thank you, UCGal and Russ.

I just wish we could have discussions about things without making personal attacks — not directed at you guys, just the general trend on some threads. I’ve never initiated a personal attack in all the years I’ve been here (not that I remember, and certainly not intentionally), so it bums me out when I’m trying to have a logical discussion — always citing statistics, studies, etc. — and get attacked personally instead of having people debate the specific points of the argument.

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