Ot; Heavy

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
Why are some babies born 12 pounds when others are born 7 pounds, and the mother of the 12-pounder gained less weight and ate fewer calories than the mother of the 7-pounder?

There is far more that we DON’T know than what we do know. Until you’ve lived with someone who suffers from these weight problems (and know for a fact that they have almost identical diets to siblings who are “skinny” or “muscular”), you cannot understand what some of us are talking about. You have to see it first-hand to grasp what’s going on with some overweight people.[/quote]

CA renter, if one child is fat, why not teach that child to eat less and substitute foods that have more volume and less calories?

For example while the other kids have croissants and butter, the fat child should have plain oat meal with water. Sounds extreme, but wouldn’t that be better than a lifetime of obesity?

If you had a child who had trouble keeping up in school, would you not give that child some remedial education?

Why do different people have to eat identical diets, as you put it? It’s obvious that different students have to study different amounts to achieve the same results.

I have a friend who’s trying to lose weight. Everytime I talk to him it’s all exercise and healthy eating… When I visit, I see frozen lasagna in the fridge. People will sneak around and eat without telling anyone.[/quote]

Sorry brian, but you clearly do not understand anything about child rearing and psychology. Do you honestly think that putting the heavy kid on a “diet” while they watch their siblings eat whatever they want will somehow go over well? Do you not understand that they will feel punished for things they have no control over, and they will either end up gorging when they finally make it out of the house, or they might end up with eating disorders which are every bit as dangerous as obesity.

Here’s why I feel so strongly about the subject… My sister was born 11 pounds 2 oz, and I was born 6 pounds 8 oz (same parents, mother gained about the same amount of weight during pregnancies). My sister NEVER saw a single day in her life as “normal weight” person. My mother was a narcissist, every bit as vain as you, and exercised regularly all her life. The fact that she had an overweight daughter was truly disturbing and embarassing to her, so she had my sister on various diets since the day she was born.

Because of my “lucky” genes, I could eat whatever I wanted, and had trouble gaining weight as a kid. Like many out there, I thought I was somehow “deserving” of my body type, almost as if I had earned it somehow. My friends and I used to make fun of my sister for being fat, even though she was a sweet and very funny kid. She managed to do well for herself socially because of her humorous and vivacious personality until her teen years when looks started to take on a more important role. I watched as she started taking massive amounts of diet pills, and experimented with starvation diets, etc. She could literally eat half of what I did, and still gain weight while I would stay the same or lose weight.

Over the years, she became more and more depressed, and I’m fully convinced that it was largely because of her weight issues. She became an alcoholic, and eventually committed suicide. I have many regrets in life, but my biggest regret is how I treated my sister when we were young.

I now have three kids, one of whom has this body type — she’s been in the 95th+ percentile for weight since the day she was born — she did not “become” fat. I do not want to watch my daughter go through the hell that my sister went through, and I will not stand silently by when I hear ignorant people try to blame innocent people for being “fat.”

What’s more, I know a number of people who were known for being slim when we were young. What most people don’t know was that they had eating disorders. All of them are now betwen 35 and 43 years old. One has already had a hip replacement and fractured spine because her bones are so brittle. Another was just diagnosed with osteoporosis. Another has lost some of her teeth, and is completely unable to keep food down because her stomach and esophagus are so accustomed to throwing everything up — needless to say, her esophagus is totally eaten up. Many of them don’t have periods, and have wild mood swings because their hormones are totally off.

Now, you might say that these people are “healthy” when you look at them, but they are far less healthy than overweight (not obese) people who might not look as good, but who have far healthier diets and healthier lifestyles.

FWIW, we know at least 15 people who have had cancer or heart attacks before the age of 50. Only ONE of them was overweight or obese. Quite a few of them were health and fitness fantatics who would only eat organic foods, would ride their bikes hundreds of miles per week, etc. I think so much of your angst about heavy people lies in the fact that you want to control everything in your life, and you want to convince yourself that you have control over your health. You don’t. More than anything else, your genes and pure luck control your health.

I wish you the very best, and hope that you do make it to 120, but you should never get cocky about your health. Life has a way of knocking us down when we get too haughty.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
Why are some babies born 12 pounds when others are born 7 pounds, and the mother of the 12-pounder gained less weight and ate fewer calories than the mother of the 7-pounder?

There is far more that we DON’T know than what we do know. Until you’ve lived with someone who suffers from these weight problems (and know for a fact that they have almost identical diets to siblings who are “skinny” or “muscular”), you cannot understand what some of us are talking about. You have to see it first-hand to grasp what’s going on with some overweight people.[/quote]

CA renter, if one child is fat, why not teach that child to eat less and substitute foods that have more volume and less calories?

For example while the other kids have croissants and butter, the fat child should have plain oat meal with water. Sounds extreme, but wouldn’t that be better than a lifetime of obesity?

If you had a child who had trouble keeping up in school, would you not give that child some remedial education?

Why do different people have to eat identical diets, as you put it? It’s obvious that different students have to study different amounts to achieve the same results.

I have a friend who’s trying to lose weight. Everytime I talk to him it’s all exercise and healthy eating… When I visit, I see frozen lasagna in the fridge. People will sneak around and eat without telling anyone.[/quote]

Sorry brian, but you clearly do not understand anything about child rearing and psychology. Do you honestly think that putting the heavy kid on a “diet” while they watch their siblings eat whatever they want will somehow go over well? Do you not understand that they will feel punished for things they have no control over, and they will either end up gorging when they finally make it out of the house, or they might end up with eating disorders which are every bit as dangerous as obesity.

Here’s why I feel so strongly about the subject… My sister was born 11 pounds 2 oz, and I was born 6 pounds 8 oz (same parents, mother gained about the same amount of weight during pregnancies). My sister NEVER saw a single day in her life as “normal weight” person. My mother was a narcissist, every bit as vain as you, and exercised regularly all her life. The fact that she had an overweight daughter was truly disturbing and embarassing to her, so she had my sister on various diets since the day she was born.

Because of my “lucky” genes, I could eat whatever I wanted, and had trouble gaining weight as a kid. Like many out there, I thought I was somehow “deserving” of my body type, almost as if I had earned it somehow. My friends and I used to make fun of my sister for being fat, even though she was a sweet and very funny kid. She managed to do well for herself socially because of her humorous and vivacious personality until her teen years when looks started to take on a more important role. I watched as she started taking massive amounts of diet pills, and experimented with starvation diets, etc. She could literally eat half of what I did, and still gain weight while I would stay the same or lose weight.

Over the years, she became more and more depressed, and I’m fully convinced that it was largely because of her weight issues. She became an alcoholic, and eventually committed suicide. I have many regrets in life, but my biggest regret is how I treated my sister when we were young.

I now have three kids, one of whom has this body type — she’s been in the 95th+ percentile for weight since the day she was born — she did not “become” fat. I do not want to watch my daughter go through the hell that my sister went through, and I will not stand silently by when I hear ignorant people try to blame innocent people for being “fat.”

What’s more, I know a number of people who were known for being slim when we were young. What most people don’t know was that they had eating disorders. All of them are now betwen 35 and 43 years old. One has already had a hip replacement and fractured spine because her bones are so brittle. Another was just diagnosed with osteoporosis. Another has lost some of her teeth, and is completely unable to keep food down because her stomach and esophagus are so accustomed to throwing everything up — needless to say, her esophagus is totally eaten up. Many of them don’t have periods, and have wild mood swings because their hormones are totally off.

Now, you might say that these people are “healthy” when you look at them, but they are far less healthy than overweight (not obese) people who might not look as good, but who have far healthier diets and healthier lifestyles.

FWIW, we know at least 15 people who have had cancer or heart attacks before the age of 50. Only ONE of them was overweight or obese. Quite a few of them were health and fitness fantatics who would only eat organic foods, would ride their bikes hundreds of miles per week, etc. I think so much of your angst about heavy people lies in the fact that you want to control everything in your life, and you want to convince yourself that you have control over your health. You don’t. More than anything else, your genes and pure luck control your health.

I wish you the very best, and hope that you do make it to 120, but you should never get cocky about your health. Life has a way of knocking us down when we get too haughty.

[NotCranky]

[quote=briansd1]Interesting program I heard of radio this morning.

Will America See a Food Revolution? (12:07PM)

One-third of America’s tomato crop is infused with pesticides, picked green and turned red artificially. The US State Department admits some is produced by slave labor. Factory-raised chickens grow too fast and get too big; they taste like rubber and threaten the future of traditional breeds. Evidence against the abuses of modern agriculture is creating a new movement of people who don’t want to eat industrialized food any more. But better tasting, more nutritional food is expensive, and the movement may be limited to the favored few.

There’s a growing backlash against industrialized food production, including tomatoes and chickens that don’t taste right and aren’t genuinely nutritious. But not everybody can afford to buy the real things. Is the Good Food movement creating a class divide?

http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/tp/tp110901blah_chicken_bland_t

[/quote]

The next bubble, locally grown food/produce?

[NotCranky]

[quote=briansd1]Interesting program I heard of radio this morning.

Will America See a Food Revolution? (12:07PM)

One-third of America’s tomato crop is infused with pesticides, picked green and turned red artificially. The US State Department admits some is produced by slave labor. Factory-raised chickens grow too fast and get too big; they taste like rubber and threaten the future of traditional breeds. Evidence against the abuses of modern agriculture is creating a new movement of people who don’t want to eat industrialized food any more. But better tasting, more nutritional food is expensive, and the movement may be limited to the favored few.

There’s a growing backlash against industrialized food production, including tomatoes and chickens that don’t taste right and aren’t genuinely nutritious. But not everybody can afford to buy the real things. Is the Good Food movement creating a class divide?

http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/tp/tp110901blah_chicken_bland_t

[/quote]

The next bubble, locally grown food/produce?

[NotCranky]

[quote=briansd1]Interesting program I heard of radio this morning.

Will America See a Food Revolution? (12:07PM)

One-third of America’s tomato crop is infused with pesticides, picked green and turned red artificially. The US State Department admits some is produced by slave labor. Factory-raised chickens grow too fast and get too big; they taste like rubber and threaten the future of traditional breeds. Evidence against the abuses of modern agriculture is creating a new movement of people who don’t want to eat industrialized food any more. But better tasting, more nutritional food is expensive, and the movement may be limited to the favored few.

There’s a growing backlash against industrialized food production, including tomatoes and chickens that don’t taste right and aren’t genuinely nutritious. But not everybody can afford to buy the real things. Is the Good Food movement creating a class divide?

http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/tp/tp110901blah_chicken_bland_t

[/quote]

The next bubble, locally grown food/produce?

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter] I wish you the very best, and hope that you do make it to 120, but you should never get cocky about your health. Life has a way of knocking us down when we get too haughty.[/quote]

Wanna see haughty?

In restaurants Murdock will push the butter dish toward the server and say, “Take the death off the table.”

Looks at what billionaire David Murdoch is eating. Is that so unreasonable for people prone to obesity?

http://www.oprah.com/health/Dr-Oz-on-Living-Longer-with-a-Calorie-Restriction-Diet/9

http://www.oprah.com/health/David-Murdocks-Diet-and-Fitness-Routine-Video

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-murdock/a-recipe-for-longevity_b_205355.html

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter] I wish you the very best, and hope that you do make it to 120, but you should never get cocky about your health. Life has a way of knocking us down when we get too haughty.[/quote]

Wanna see haughty?

In restaurants Murdock will push the butter dish toward the server and say, “Take the death off the table.”

Looks at what billionaire David Murdoch is eating. Is that so unreasonable for people prone to obesity?

http://www.oprah.com/health/Dr-Oz-on-Living-Longer-with-a-Calorie-Restriction-Diet/9

http://www.oprah.com/health/David-Murdocks-Diet-and-Fitness-Routine-Video

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-murdock/a-recipe-for-longevity_b_205355.html

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter] I wish you the very best, and hope that you do make it to 120, but you should never get cocky about your health. Life has a way of knocking us down when we get too haughty.[/quote]

Wanna see haughty?

In restaurants Murdock will push the butter dish toward the server and say, “Take the death off the table.”

Looks at what billionaire David Murdoch is eating. Is that so unreasonable for people prone to obesity?

http://www.oprah.com/health/Dr-Oz-on-Living-Longer-with-a-Calorie-Restriction-Diet/9

http://www.oprah.com/health/David-Murdocks-Diet-and-Fitness-Routine-Video

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-murdock/a-recipe-for-longevity_b_205355.html%5B/quote%5D

Very interesting article, and I agree very much with what he’s doing.

The article also mentioned this:

The doctors who work with Murdock say that he has ideal blood pressure, clear arteries, good muscle tone. But they doubt that these will carry him to 125. They point out that he didn’t adopt his healthful ways until his 60s, and they note that genes often trump behavior. Although Murdock’s father lived well into his 90s, his mother died young, and his sisters are both dead.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter] I wish you the very best, and hope that you do make it to 120, but you should never get cocky about your health. Life has a way of knocking us down when we get too haughty.[/quote]

Wanna see haughty?

In restaurants Murdock will push the butter dish toward the server and say, “Take the death off the table.”

Looks at what billionaire David Murdoch is eating. Is that so unreasonable for people prone to obesity?

http://www.oprah.com/health/Dr-Oz-on-Living-Longer-with-a-Calorie-Restriction-Diet/9

http://www.oprah.com/health/David-Murdocks-Diet-and-Fitness-Routine-Video

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-murdock/a-recipe-for-longevity_b_205355.html%5B/quote%5D

Very interesting article, and I agree very much with what he’s doing.

The article also mentioned this:

The doctors who work with Murdock say that he has ideal blood pressure, clear arteries, good muscle tone. But they doubt that these will carry him to 125. They point out that he didn’t adopt his healthful ways until his 60s, and they note that genes often trump behavior. Although Murdock’s father lived well into his 90s, his mother died young, and his sisters are both dead.

[UCGal]

[quote=CA renter]

Sorry brian, but you clearly do not understand anything about child rearing and psychology. [/quote]
+100 on more than just diet and food, lol.

[UCGal]

[quote=CA renter]

Sorry brian, but you clearly do not understand anything about child rearing and psychology. [/quote]
+100 on more than just diet and food, lol.

[ocrenter]

CAR, sorry to hear about your sister. Just remember, no one here is saying there’s no metabolic differences. And it is true, if someone is genetically overweight, they will be healthier staying overweight. What I have seen however is because of the changes we have induced for ourselves over the last 50 years, a lot of the genetically overweight are now obese, and this is quite concerning.

The same can be said for a lot of Filipinos I know. They are meant to be skinny people, and what is happening is a lot of them are overweight, and their bodies can’t handle it. They develop diabetes, hypertension, cholesterol problem, and gout just by being overweight.

Lastly, you are right about people that over do the exercise. There is evidence that extreme exercise leads to cardiac scarring.

The Buddha was very wise in his advocation of the middle path. Most things in life are truly better in moderation.

[NotCranky]

I definitely agree that it is more than just diet and food. I am sorry about the sad story, CARenter. However, even if your sister’s fat was fate, even if your child’s is, can you post something that shows that most obese adults were born significantly heavier than their non-obese siblings?

[briansd1]

Did you guys see the story of Joe?

It seems like this is what Bill Clinton in practicing now.

http://www.oprah.com/health/Live-Longer-Meal-Plan-Video

More and more people are practicing calorie restriction by eating nutrient dense and calorie light foods.

I’m going to try the egg white omelet and fish and veggies dinner.

Time will tell what the results are in 20 or 30 years.

*

BTW, I agree that different people will look different, some will look rounder and plumper than others. But that’s very different from obesity.

CA renter, sorry about your sister.

There definitely are cultural and psychological problems more than food and medical issues.

Arraya mentioned that our modern society is inducing a lot of stress that wasn’t there before. We are constantly bombarded with media messages that affect our self-esteem.

The stress gets conflated with food. So we go on all kinds of diets to conform to the media images we see (after all, the media images tell us that we are worthless unless we conform).

It’s not all discrimination against fat people. Thin people who eat well are mocked as psychologically weak, tree hugger, granola munchers. They don’t fit the bad-ass model of the real American that can chow down everything.

As far a food is concerned, I’m not talking yoyo diets or psychological obsession. I’m talking about building a consitent life-long habit of eating well — just like getting a good education or practicing good life-long financial management.

[CardiffBaseball]

Great post CaRenter.

Often what is considered healthy to a physician and what we in the GenPop think of as healthy are at complete odds. My mother was the same way the only “heavy” kid in the family. A family where money was scarce and food was rationed equally amongst all the siblings.

Christ there is so much damn evidence that it’s not simply Calories in, Calories out.

[Author]

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